Help - Phenolics, iodophor prime suspect

My last four batches have been plagued by a strong phenolic taste and smell. The strange thing is that it varies from bottle to bottle which leads me to think that iodophor, far from being a no-rinse sanitizer, is a you'd-better-rinse sanitizer.

All the usual suspects are accounted for - water is not chlorinated. It's been through the brita or it's been heavily campden tableted.

My sanitation is excellent. I say that because I really can't think of a way to be more sanitary than I already am, unless the air in my kitchen is heavily laden with evil wild yeasts ready to drop into my gaping wide carboy opening.

Another possibility is fermentation temps, but, as I said, phenolic flavour varies from barely there in a few to noticeable in some and very strong in many, but all the beer fermented together at the same temperature.

The iodophor I have suggests 1ml per litre. I've put the water through a brita first to get rid of chlorine and chloramine and added some citric acid to increase the killing power of the iodophor. Is the company's dosage off?

I'm switching to Starsan unless there is there something I'm overlooking?

How long have you let the beer in the bottles sit for? I found the same problem with my own beer. Some are good some are not so good. But if you let it sit for a long time in the bottles it all will taste the same. That is what happened with me anyway.



-Nick

I doubt a Britta will get rid of chloramine. There's not nearly enough contact time with the carbon.


I've used plenty of iodophor, and not had a problem.

It's not the Iodophor. Most likely excessive fermentation temperature or unwanted microbes are causing the problem. Review your cleaning procedures, replace any old or suspicious plastic tubing, disassemble and clean any multi-part plastic valves on equipment such as bottling buckets and insure fermentation is restricted to temperatures below the recommended maximum for the yeast(s) you are using.

I would suspect that you siphoned some trub into the bottling bucket. The trub (which is full of nasty flavors) would settle in the bucket to a certain extent, but you could certainly get some in the bottles as you get down to the bottom of the bucket.
I also don't think it the Iodophor which I use most of the time, and never have a problem with it.

-a.

BigEd said:

It's not the Iodophor. Most likely excessive fermentation temperature or unwanted microbes are causing the problem. Review your cleaning procedures,

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As I said, my sanitation is excellent. When the issue first came up, the first thing I did was ditch a load of equipment and get new stuff. That was the only thing I could think of to improve my sanitation.

Temperature control is not so good so it could be that, I'm keeping it 2 degrees celsius below the maximum, but I'm not measuring the actual temperature of fermentation. I've been looking at getting a fridge and one of those thermometers with the probe you can stick to the carboy.

I would suspect that you siphoned some trub into the bottling bucket.

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Oh yes, done that, not lots but definitely a 'whoops' there goes some trub. Didn't realize it could cause problems (silly me) and it would certainly explain why the strange aromas and flavours are more prominent in certain bottles.

I will avoid the trub like the plague next bottling day. I will let you know how it goes.

Are you using dry yeast or liquid? If the latter, are you making starters?

Dry yeast - Safale 04 for two of the batches and Coopers Ale Yeast for the other two. I sometimes rehydrate, sometimes make a flying starter. My fermentation temp is quite high - around 19 degrees celsius for two of the batches and pushing twenty for the batches with Coopers (selected for its heat tolerance).

That's the ambient temperature, by the way so I take it the fermentation temperature in the carboy is going to be higher.

Same drill as my first 6 batches

Does this phenolic flavor seem medicinal, like band aids? Is it especially apparent when you burp?

BigEd said:

Review your cleaning procedures, replace any old or suspicious plastic tubing, disassemble and clean any multi-part plastic valves on equipment such as bottling buckets

Click to expand...

+1

Although you say...

Philsc said:

As I said, my sanitation is excellent. When the issue first came up, the first thing I did was ditch a load of equipment and get new stuff. That was the only thing I could think of to improve my sanitation.

Click to expand...

Yet...

Did you also replace your autosyphon (if you use one)? There is a small area near the base to which the plunger does not reach. I've heard of infections starting in that area.

Synovia said:

I doubt a Britta will get rid of chloramine. There's not nearly enough contact time with the carbon.

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1+

But if you use campden tablets, then you should be golden...

However, do you use campden treated water in your idophor solution during your bottling process as well??

If I were to guess, I'd say that you are probably using regular tap water, maybe "brita filtered" and idophor to sanitize your bottles. The britta will not get rid of all of the chloramine. You can test this hypothesis out using these test strips. Or you could just add campden tablets to the water you use at bottling time. Just a guess though....

I've had this problem as well, and I think I've fixed it, but the next batch will tell for sure. I am definitely interested in finding out what is causing your problem.

Cheers and good luck!

Are you mixing the iodophor to a no-rinse concentration ?

What are you using as a primary fermenter? I had two glass carboys that got infected with wild yeast (I suspect) causing terrible phenolics and I never could clean it out of them. Beer had terrible plastic aroma and taste and burnt bandiad burps. Several batches ruined. I had tried everything, changing bottled water, campden tabs, starsan, iodophor, bleach bombing, etc... I was ready to quit all together. Switched to plastic buckets and problem was instantly solved. For some reason, whatever had set up camp in my carboys, just wouldn't come out of them, no matter how hard I cleaned.

Hmm.

I ferment in a glass 24L carboy I got off Kijiji. Every phenolic beer I've made has been made in that carboy. I assumed glass was eminently cleanable. Perhaps I was wrong. Maybe I should shell out the cash and get a new carboy or a bucket.

Interestingly, the phenolic taste has faded in my beers over time. I drank some today and the phenolics were barely noticeable.