Overstated risk of bottle bombs

So I get slammed (see Bottle Bomb Risk post from 4-10) here for asking about risk of bottle bombs when cider recipes calling for bottling after short periods get posted from time to time and know one raises an eyebrow. With all the gloom and doom warnings you dosed out when I asked, you'd think someone would have sounded the alarm after this posting below from July last year. This guy even force carbonated before bottling! when I searched for cider recipes I know I saw at least one other that called for bottling at two weeks. My cider tastes great five days after bottling. Will it explode if I leave it in a hot place for two months? Gonna be all gone by then. With this kinda recipe and others like it floating around unquestioned on the site, you'd think we'd be hearing about more sticky shards flying around. So either get on the ball or back off bottle bomb squad.


My Cheap @$$ apple cider 7-05-2007
Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: leftover from white zin box kit
Batch Size (Gallons): 5
Original Gravity: 1.049
Final Gravity: .998
Boiling Time (Minutes): ZERO!!!
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 14
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): ZERO!!!

I just went down to WINCO and picked up the cheapest 100% apple juice that wasn't from concentrate and dumped it onto the yeast cake from my white zin wine box kit (on 6/21/07). Last night(7/3/07) I racked to a corny keg FROM THE PRIMARY(NO 2nd fermentation!!!) ADDED 1/2 TSP of APPLE PIE SPICE, then I force carbonated(rolled around on floor for an hour WITH the air on at 25 PSI) then bottled straight from the keg into 47 bottles(you know how testing goes... LOL!!! tough job but...... ) Tonight 24 of the 47 I took to a party just vanished... dunno what happened to them. They are just gone. Total cost INCLUDING the caps for this batch was $14.00. That made each bottle worth... $0.297872.... Lets round up to thrity cents per bottle. That's a buck eighty a six pack of 6.5% abv cider. It was just WAY too easy to drink. A bit tart, a bit sweet, just perfectly spiced. Absolute heaven! I urge everyone to do this at least once!!!!
__________________
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. They wake up in the morning and that's as good as they're going to feel all day." -Dean Martin
Quote:

Wait, what? You've been here four days. I'm sorry if you felt disrespected by answers you might have received, but the fact remains that we hear from people who DO have bottles exploding on them just about every week. It's not a terribly uncommon occurance, thankfully, and if anyone's expressing concern it's because they don't want you (or anyone else in your household) potentially getting hurt. Ain't gonna apologize for that.

Oh man, I can see the *****ie award coming.


That guy, whoever he was, apparently fermented the cider out really quickly due to pitching on the cake and then he kegged so there's no risk of exploding bottles.

Don't come into a forum packed with helpful people and hundreds of years of collective experience and start spouting off like a complete a$$hole after only 2 posts. At least wait a month or so like I did.

Bobby_M said:

At least wait a month or so like I did.

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Classic.........

I have not really mouthed off yet...does that mean I am overdue Bobby_M

I think maybe the OP needs to take a deep breath for a second and "get on the ball" themself. That recipe you posted stated they racked to a keg and force carbed. No added sugars to the batch and then bottled to be carbed naturally. So as Bobby said, no risk of bottle bombs.

Bottle bombs are rare to be sure, (especially when kegging cider), but when they do happen, they are fairly dangerous and make one hell of a mess.

People don't catch on fire too often either, but it happens, and a little caution is well worth it.

hmmmm......... [youtube]4cf10vcFCck&feature[/youtube]

I think why you got "slammed" was, more than anything else, because of this line...

bluebeer said:

... I'm too lazy to deal with a hydrometer....

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I mean, if taking a couple minutes to insure that your beer/ wine/cider/mead is doing what it should be doing, and is done fermenting, rather than jamming sugar into it and bottling, then maybe this whole brewing thing is way too much work...There's plenty of bottles of thunderbird and boone's farm down at the thrifty mart to be had...Maybe sanitization is too time consuming as well?

bluebeer said:

So I get slammed (see Bottle Bomb Risk post from 4-10) here for asking about risk of bottle bombs

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I just read it. You did not get slammed for asking a question, you got slammed for saying "I'm too lazy to deal with a hydrometer".

I participated in it and openly admiting that you are too lazy to do the work yourself and that you want others to do it for you is pretty bad form. In addition, it seems you are able to do your own research, which is good, but despite what we say, you are intent on doing whatever you were planning on doing anyway, and are looking for shreds of evidence to back up your faulty position.

Just over time those bottles will probably ferment further than you would like, producing more CO2 than the bottles can handle, cider does take a long time to finish fermenting. They won't magically all bottle bomb at once, but they will blow, so as of right now though you should probably drink those suckers and quick.

Nah, keep em' and post some cool explosion pictures later please!

I'm sorry you felt you got slammed when we pointed out the obvious. Since I"m still in the "point out the obvious" mode, let me point out a few small details you missed:

My Cheap @$$ apple cider 7-05-2007
Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: leftover from white zin box kit
Batch Size (Gallons): 5
Original Gravity: 1.049
Final Gravity: .998
Boiling Time (Minutes): ZERO!!!
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 14
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): ZERO!!!

1. The cider finished at .998. He used a hydrometer. The cider was finished. He fermented it for 14 days. But he checked with a hydrometer to ensure it was finished. Also, it was only 6.6% ABV, not much more than most beers.

2. Your comment: This guy even force carbonated before bottling!
Force carbonating does not require adding priming sugar. You set the carbonation to a specific volume of co2, and then bottle. That's how you CONTROL the amount of carbonation. It won't overcarb and there are no risk of bottle bombs.

3. He used a left over yeast cake, which means he pitched a sufficent amount of yeast for such a fermentation.

This cider was done fermenting. I still would have let it sit to clear, but it was 100% finished, as shown by a hydrometer reading. Yours might have been finished, too. Maybe not. You probably won't have bottle bombs. I would not take a bet either way. You said that you were new, and that it had fermented 11 days, and was still bubbling at the rate of once a minute when you bottled. Well, 1+1+1= BOOM.

At this point, I'll do what you suggest and "So either get on the ball or back off bottle bomb squad." I'm glad you feel comfortable enough on our forum to express your thoughts. So many other people hide behind their anonymity to be polite and easy going. Some of us even respond to stupid posts over and over again, trying to be "nice". I'm glad you don't feel that need.

A few more comments to help illustrate what you missed:

You said:

bluebeer said:

cider recipes calling for bottling after short periods get posted from time to time and know one raises an eyebrow

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But the OP said:
"Final Gravity: .998" and "Primary Fermentation (#Days): 14"

Clearly he used a moderate period (for cider) and checked it with a hydrometer


You said:

bluebeer said:

This guy even force carbonated before bottling!

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Which implies a greater risk. However, if you had the experience of the peers advising you, you would know that force carbing creates a LOWER (i.e. zero) risk of bottle bombs.

You said:

bluebeer said:

With this kinda recipe and others like it floating around unquestioned on the site, you'd think we'd be hearing about more sticky shards flying around.

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Perhaps. Unless those brewers are using their hydrometers and priming sugars as recommended. In that case, the risk is near zero.


You said:

bluebeer said:

Overstated risk of bottle bombs {and} So either get on the ball or back off bottle bomb squad.

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Any brewer with experience will tell you that the risk of bottle bombs is both real and very dangerous. One day you too will come to that realization (hopefully w/o harm), and understand that those people you are so pissed at were trying to help you in spite of yourself.

bluebeer said:

So I get slammed (see Bottle Bomb Risk post from 4-10) here for asking about risk of bottle bombs when cider recipes calling for bottling after short periods get posted from time to time and know one raises an eyebrow.
...
So either get on the ball or back off bottle bomb squad.

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No one slammed you. They all told you the same thing - you bottled early, so you're at risk. Clearly, you wanted the opposite advice, as is evidenced by your thanks in advance.

Furthermore, your comment about being too lazy to use a hydrometer made your post seem either like a joke, or like you are, indeed, too lazy. This forum tends to have a "he who is not willing to help himself will not easily find help" atmosphere. Without providing empirical data (like the sort of thing you'd get from a hydrometer), no one can give you a good answer, so everyone gave you the conservative answer and told you to start measuring.

All the advice you got was sound advice, but apparently it wasn't what you wanted to hear. No one's going to apologize for telling you the truth.

No one raised an eyebrow at the post you referenced because no eyebrow raising was required. That post included all the information required (including those terribly labor intensive hydrometer readings) to see that bottle bombs were never going to be an issue. Did you really scour the forum trying to find a case where someone posted about bottling cider just to tell us we're not "on the ball?" If you had to search all the way back to a post from 8 MONTHS AGO, just to find something that, in YOUR UNEDUCATED OPINION, was suspect, then the "Bottle Bomb Squad" is doing a damn good job.

Do us all a favor and RDWHAHB. Come back when you're willing to accept criticism, advice, and/or help. Hopefully you haven't burned all your bridges in just 3 posts. I bet you haven't. This forum is very forgiving.

Yuri_Rage said:

No one slammed you. They all told you the same thing - you bottled early, so you're at risk. Clearly, you wanted the opposite advice, as is evidenced by your thanks in advance.

Furthermore, your comment about being too lazy to use a hydrometer made your post seem either like a joke, or like you are, indeed, too lazy. This forum tends to have a "he who is not willing to help himself will not easily find help" atmosphere. Without providing empirical data (like the sort of thing you'd get from a hydrometer), no one can give you a good answer, so everyone gave you the conservative answer and told you to start measuring.

All the advice you got was sound advice, but apparently it wasn't what you wanted to hear. No one's going to apologize for telling you the truth.

No one raised an eyebrow at the post you referenced because no eyebrow raising was required. That post included all the information required (including those terribly labor intensive hydrometer readings) to see that bottle bombs were never going to be an issue. Did you really scour the forum trying to find a case where someone posted about bottling cider just to tell us we're not "on the ball?" If you had to search all the way back to a post from 8 MONTHS AGO, just to find something that, in YOUR UNEDUCATED OPINION, was suspect, then the "Bottle Bomb Squad" is doing a damn good job.

Do us all a favor and RDWHAHB. Come back when you're willing to accept criticism, advice, and/or help. Hopefully you haven't burned all your bridges in just 3 posts. I bet you haven't. This forum is very forgiving.

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Why even type all that out, he is obviously not going to take our advice and just do whatever he wants anyway. I wonder why he even asked the question...

Just wanted to take a minute to thank you all for your responses. Reading back over my posts, I realize I was coming off as a bit of a jerk. Really surprised by how polite most of you were in your responses. Many showing genuine concern for my safety. Thanks. It speaks to the spirit of this forum.

Ciders been in the bottles for about three weeks now, and although none have exploded, it is, as you've all advised, continuing to ferment and carbonate. It's sort of interesting to taste it get drier and fizzier day by day while handling the bottles gingerly as though I were defusing a bomb in a James Bond movie. I'm aiming to get them all quaffed or refrigerated in the next week to avoid finding out if your warnings are correct.

Just one thing. I was really surprised and taken aback by the harsh reaction to my comment about being too lazy to use a hydrometer. Sure, I put it a bit crudely, but there must be others like me with 60 hour/week jobs, kids, a million things to do, etc who find it somewhat tedious. Mix up the sanitizer, sanitize the thief, take the reading, clean the thief, clean the hydrometer, clean the hyrdometer jar, worry about the risk of contamination. Do this every few days. And with all the other labor involved, especially bottling and bottle cleaning (not at the kegging stage yet). And the Northern Brewer instructions advise that you can skip all this (at least with ales) and just wait for the Krausen to fall out - an indication, they say, that primary is done. All this was in my head, why I was expecting I might have some sympathizers out there. Then when y'all jumped down my throat, I got a bit pissy.

In any case, thanks again for your advice and good spirit.

I look at it like this: homebrewing is my hobby. I do it to relax, and I do it because I enjoy it. When I take a hydrometer sample I enjoy the sanitizing, I enjoy the clean up, I enjoy all the little steps involved. I don't look at it as a hassle, I look at it as another chance to further enjoy my hobby. My suggestion is don't look at it like "oh man I gotta check the hydrometer". Instead look at it like "Sweet!!! I get to take 5 minutes out of my day to see how my creation is progressing". Hobbies are meant to help you relax, not to stress you out. Just my opinion of course

And I highly reccomend you start checking the gravity on your ales as well. I realize that you have done a lot of batches without ever worrying about checking it, but the day may come when you get a stuck fermentation. The beer may very well look like it's done. Krausen falls, no airlock activity, etc. But it might just be that the yeast quit early for whatever reason. And if you bottle a beer like that you may be waking up the yeasts at bottling time, and once again be at risk of bottle bombs. I had my first stuck fermenation about 2 months ago. I was glad that my hydrometer told me it was stuck, and I was able to rouse the yeast and get the beer finished out.

you don't have to go through all that to use your hydrometer. I think with my ciders I'm just going to take a reading at the start and the next reading will be when it looks finished and go from there.

bluebeer said:

Just one thing. I was really surprised and taken aback by the harsh reaction to my comment about being too lazy to use a hydrometer. Sure, I put it a bit crudely, but there must be others like me with 60 hour/week jobs, kids, a million things to do, etc who find it somewhat tedious. Mix up the sanitizer, sanitize the thief, take the reading, clean the thief, clean the hydrometer, clean the hyrdometer jar, worry about the risk of contamination. Do this every few days. And with all the other labor involved, especially bottling and bottle cleaning (not at the kegging stage yet). And the Northern Brewer instructions advise that you can skip all this (at least with ales) and just wait for the Krausen to fall out - an indication, they say, that primary is done. All this was in my head, why I was expecting I might have some sympathizers out there. Then when y'all jumped down my throat, I got a bit pissy.

In any case, thanks again for your advice and good spirit.

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For what it's worth: the first two ciders I brewed up I also was too lazy to use my hydrometer...er...well it was broken and I was too lazy/poor to buy a new one. Nonetheless, BOTH batches were bottle bombs. Cider can be tricky, especially when you use honey (takes forever to ferment out), so just heed to the warning's and relax. I learned my lessons and it's better to take someone's tried and true advice instead of ending up like i did my first two rounds.

Well, when I take hydrometer readings (and usually only right before I bottle to make sure it's done), it's not any effort at all. I squirt some sanitizer on a turkery baster (I have some in a spray bottle) and then use that to pull out my sample. I don't sanitize the hydrometer or test jar, etc. After I pull out the sample and put it in the test jar, I take the SG reading and then drink the wine/beer/cider/mead that is left in the jar. It's usually about 3 ounces, so it's a nice sized taste!

If it's done, I go ahead and bottle. If not, I wait a week. It's not too difficult, and takes less than 2 minutes.

I usually check the OG, the SG when transferring to secondary (not with beers, but with wines, I do) and then the SG when bottling. If I'm not using a secondary, then only twice total.

I guess the reason that I'm a little on the paranoid-side when it comes to bottle bombs...

Near as I can tell, there's only a couple ways to hurt yourself homebrewing.

1. Bottle bombs
2. Drop a glass carboy
3. Set yourself on fire

Well, I suppose you could drink yourself to death, too... in any case, these are all issues that are easy to avoid, so I tend to harp on them a bit.

the_bird said:

I guess the reason that I'm a little on the paranoid-side when it comes to bottle bombs...

Near as I can tell, there's only a couple ways to hurt yourself homebrewing.

1. Bottle bombs
2. Drop a glass carboy
3. Set yourself on fire

Well, I suppose you could drink yourself to death, too... in any case, these are all issues that are easy to avoid, so I tend to harp on them a bit.

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OK, I and 2 I buy...but set yourself on fire

Of course you are much more experienced in brewing than I am.....Do you know this from experience? Care to share?

Revvy said:

OK, I and 2 I buy...but set yourself on fire

Of course you are much more experienced in brewing than I am.....Do you know this from experience? Care to share?

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Maybe more like..."blow yourself up..."

I get that one pretty often and I'm just not sure why...

From Tastybrew.com

Subject: Flaming Denny Conn
Author: Matthew Jarvis Nov 4th, 2007
12:10 pm
No, not *that* kind of flaming... I'm talking about good ol' fire in this case...

At Denny's place as he hosted Teach Day once again (7 years in a row??), as Denny stood there discussing how long it's been since he's had a brewing mishap, and basically saying that brewing is so damn easy and only a moron would do something stoopid...

Turns out he was standing too close to Brandt's ultra quiet burner and next thing we see is Denny's left leg go up in flames...

You've ain't seen funny until you see Mr Rock & Roll do the Stop, Drop and Roll....

Should have called it Teach a Friend to Burn Day...

Good times..... Good Times....

--/\/\--