IPA problem

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callisbeers

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I have brewed several IPA's now including the current DIPA on tap and I just cannot get the level of beer I am looking for. Almost all have had the same sort of taste. They are not overly flavorful nor aromatic. Any suggestions?
 
What is your hop schedule like and what like of hops are you using.
I hit my IPA's hard late in the boil and then dry hop.
 
Here is the schedule for the DIPA:

Boil 60 mins 0.4 Warrior pellet 15.8
boil 50 mins 0.4 Warrior pellet 15.8
boil 40 mins 0.3 Citra pellet 14.5
boil 30 mins 0.4 Nugget pellet 11.3
boil 20 mins 0.4 Nugget pellet 11.3
boil 10 mins 0.5 Amarillo pellet 9.1
boil 5 mins 0.5 Falconer's Flight pellet 9.9
boil 1 min 0.5 Falconer's Flight pellet 9.9
dry hop 9 days 1.0 Cascade pellet 5.5

Here is an early IPA: (this was a summer IPA so not a super high ibu)

boil 60 mins 0.25 Citra pellet 14.5
boil 30 mins 0.5 Falconer's Flight pellet 9.9
boil 15 mins 0.5 Citra pellet 14.5
boil 1 min 0.5 Cascade pellet 5.5
dry hop 7 days 0.5 Cascade pellet 5.5
dry hop 7 days 0.5 Citra pellet 14.5
dry hop 7 days 0.5 Falconer's Flight pellet 9.9

The 2nd one wasn't bad but it just didn't have that "pop". I read about "hop bursting" so I tried that in one that is fermenting. I am wondering if 1) I am just not getting a good balance between the hops and malts or 2) I am just not mixing the hop varieties well.

These were for 5 gallon batches
 
Things I've found that have really improved my IPAs and APAs:
1) Simplify your grain bill. There really isn't much need for anything more than pale malt, some light crystal, and maybe some Vienna/Munich.
2) Simplify your hopping. Throwing every type of hop you have in the freezer into the kettle just muddies up the flavor and aroma. Stick to no more than three hops, and even then, make sure they're similar in characteristics. My absolute favorite combo is Chinook/Centennial/Cascade. And all I usually do with that is Chinook at 60 or FWH, Centennial at 15 or 10, and Cascade at 0. Is there a lot of complexity in my IPAs? No, but that's one style of beer I really feel that doesn't benefit from an array of flavors coming through.
3) Pitch cool, and ferment cool. I keep my fermentation chamber at 66*F with S-05 the entire time.
4) Skip the dry hop every now and then. Seriously. It's not nearly as important as some people make it out to be. The IPA recipe out of Brewing Classic Styles doesn't have a dry hop, and it's a pretty awesome IPA by all means.
 
phenry said:
Things I've found that have really improved my IPAs and APAs:
1) Simplify your grain bill. There really isn't much need for anything more than pale malt, some light crystal, and maybe some Vienna/Munich.
2) Simplify your hopping. Throwing every type of hop you have in the freezer into the kettle just muddies up the flavor and aroma. Stick to no more than three hops, and even then, make sure they're similar in characteristics. My absolute favorite combo is Chinook/Centennial/Cascade. And all I usually do with that is Chinook at 60 or FWH, Centennial at 15 or 10, and Cascade at 0. Is there a lot of complexity in my IPAs? No, but that's one style of beer I really feel that doesn't benefit from an array of flavors coming through.
3) Pitch cool, and ferment cool. I keep my fermentation chamber at 66*F with S-05 the entire time.
4) Skip the dry hop every now and then. Seriously. It's not nearly as important as some people make it out to be. The IPA recipe out of Brewing Classic Styles doesn't have a dry hop, and it's a pretty awesome IPA by all means.
Click to expand...

+1 Keeping the ferment temp low will help prevent excessive esters in your beer. I actually fermented my last IPA at 60 deg F. Keeping the malt bill simple allows the hops to shine. And finally using no more than three hop varieties keeps the hop flavors and aromas from getting muddled. I use warrior for bittering (at 60min) then use a combo of amarillo, cascade and centennial at 15 and 0 minutes. I use 1oz of each hop at each time addition. I then dry hopped with the same combo & amounts. My last IPA was my best one ever!
Cheers,
Brandon
 
I noticed my IPA's got better when i simplified things. Simple grain bill and simple hop schedule.
Usually some like fwh, or 60 then 15, 5 and fo. Then some dryhop.
 
I have similar results where I can get buttering but little of that aroma burst. I often do at least two ounces in he last 15 minutes of the boil and at a minimum ounce but normally two or more dry hopped. I use cascade, centennial, and other customary American hops. The OPs issue sounds similar to mine. I don't bag my hops, letting them settle in he fermenter. I get earthy aromas but they are even subdued. My fermentation is normally 65-68.
 
As was already mentioned, the hops schedule could be redone.

Like this;

1 oz bittering (60 minutes for FHW) or to get you to 40-50 IBUs with this addition
1 oz 15 minutes
1 oz 10 minutes
1 oz 5 minutes
1 oz 0 minutes
Dryhop

That will maximize hops flavor and aroma and provide a "clean" firm bitterness.

In an IPA, you want little to use only a small amount of crystal malt (if any) or increase the bittering hops as a lot of crystal can create a perception of more sweetness. Sometimes that is really nice in an IIPA or IPA, but it has to be balanced with the amount of hops so as to not be too sweet or cloying, and let the hops "pop". A traditional grain bill would be some US two-row, and a little character malt (Munich, Vienna), a bit of crystal malt, and sometimes even some simple sugars to keep the body light with a crisp finish.

The other thing to think about is your water. Hops flavors tend to be harsh with highly alkaline/carbonate water, but very smooth and gentle with RO/soft water. What kind of water are you using?
 
Yooper said:
The other thing to think about is your water. Hops flavors tend to be harsh with highly alkaline/carbonate water, but very smooth and gentle with RO/soft water. What kind of water are you using?
Click to expand...

Big +1 to good water. My favorite profile I've settled on so far is (give or take):

Ca: 105
Mg: 18
Na: 47
SO4: 300
Cl: 55
HCO3: 63
Total Hardness: 344
Alkalinity: 52
RA: -35
SO4/Cl: 5.4

That's mainly just building on my current water profile, all of my additions are gypsum or calcium chloride, with about 4x as much gypsum as CaCl2. Yes, it is quite hard, but the RA is -35, so even a rather pale Pale Ale can be brewed with that water and the hops will shine through like no other. I'd suggest looking into how alkaline your water is, and trying to bring it down to something around 50 ppm with dilution if it turns out to be high.
 
Thanks for the advice. I definitely did not keep my grain bill or hop profile simple on this last one.

In regards to the water, can you get the water profile from the water company?
 
I'm able to find the water report for my area with all the secondary properties (the stuff we're interested in, not the amount of lead or TCE or whatnot required by law in every report), but if you can't find it there I'm sure a call to the water company would be a good idea.

Edit: Find online. Responding while measuring grains usually leads to me forgetting some key points.
 
Here is what I found on our water (all listed in ppm)

Ca = 8.44
Mg = 2.98
Na = 28.7
SO4 = 31
Cl =20.1
total hardness = 33.3
Alk = 37.2

No sure what RA is?

Any thoughts?
 
callisbeers said:
Here is what I found on our water (all listed in ppm)

Ca = 8.44
Mg = 2.98
Na = 28.7
SO4 = 31
Cl =20.1
total hardness = 33.3
Alk = 37.2

No sure what RA is?

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

Nice water, but a little high in sodium. I am jealous- I had to get an RO system to make my water usable!

Anyway, if you use a hops schedule like:

FWH or 60 minutes
1 oz 15 minutes
1 oz 10 minutes
1 0z 5 minutes
1 oz 0 minutes

and add a teaspoon of gypsum, you may find that your IPA suddenly "pop".

I'd also look at the malt bills of the recipes you used and clean them up by going with 95% two row and 5% crystal for one batch. Between adding more late hops and less early hops, reducing/fixing the specialty malts, and using a teaspoon of gypsum in your water, I think your next IPA will be great.
 
Here are the things the took my IPAs from good to amazeballs.

1. Make a starter. You want a dry beer, and if you are just adding a smackpack that isn't enough.

2. Don't add crystal malt, or if you do keep it > 3%. I find the carmel flavor clashes with the hop flavor. If you want a more varied malt character try some munich or vienna malts.

3. Hops stands == Magic. I get most if not all of my IBUs from the whirlpool additions. I kill the flame, add the hops, and put the lid on for ~30 minutes. If you are worried about DMS a 90 minute boil should keep you safe.

4. Minimize o2 contact after the primary fermentation. oxidized hops are gross. I no longer rack to secondary, but rather give my beer 7-10 days in primary, then rack to a keg and dry hop in there. Then all i have to do is fish out the hop sock and carbonate.

Mitch Steels book is a great resource as well. Happy brewing!
 
Are you doing partial or full boils? With partial boils you will get less out of the boil hops. If you can increase the boil volume you can usually get a bit more (bitterness, aroma, flavor) out of it.
How fast are you chilling your wort? The quicker you get the temperature of the wort down the less the aromatics and flavor compounds of the hops get driven off.
Bottle or Keg? Hops fade with time, how fresh are you drinking them?
How much do the hops pop right out of the fermenter?
Are you using hop bags/a hop spider in the boil?

You have a lot of stepped bittering additions 60 - 30 minutes... Are you getting a lot of bitterness?
 

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