Had my first sour, now help me make one please

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cobolstinks

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I just had a Duchesse De Bourgogne over the weekend and loved it. I've been AG brewing for a few years, and would like to attempt to clone this beer. I don't mind waiting the 1+years to make this, but I was wondering where i should start with this.

1. From reading up it seems rather split on whether to do a normal fermentation than add fruit and bugs to get the souring flavor vs starting fermentation with the clean yeast and bugs at the beginning. What is your opinion on this?

2. When should I add fruit? I'm thinking of freezing some cherries, maybe splitting a 5 gallon batch into 2 three gallon carboys and adding cherries to one and leaving the other alone. If i take this approach should i add the fruit right away in the primary? Rack to a secondary to get it off the yeast than add fruit?

3. What base beer should I use? Sounds like people like a high mash temp, and some carapils to give the bugs something to chew on during the long fermentation/aging does that sound about right?

Any general advice?

Thanks!
 
duchesse isn't a fruit beer. most of the reds are fermented with sacc and then secondaried into vats where they pick up bacteria- but they also pick up bacteria if they are run through a cool ship- here's a good link:
http://www2.parc.com/emdl/members/apte/flemishredale.shtml
also - wild brews by jeff sparrow has a lot of good info on the flanders style. I haven't been able to make anything that i would say is a clone- but i have been able to make good sour/ wild beer. for some of your questions - 1. seems like if you start the bugs with the sacc you will get sour faster. The wyeast lambic and roeselare have a predetermined mix of sacc, sherry, brett, lactobacillus and pediococcus in them. 2. most add fruit after they have aged and tasted the beer and are preparing for blending. the beer will tell you what kind of fruit to use kind of thing. most do not put the fruit in the primary, since it prob would contribute less to the character of the beer. Some do leave the beer on the fruit for an extended period of time, though- but remember with sour beers you can be aging upwards of two years. 3. for lambics i do 60/40 pils/wheat with turbid mash, for flanders reds and browns there are a few different grain bills- many have corn or grits, carapils, special b- high temps are a good idea, as starches and unfermentables can help feed the beer over the long haul, and contribute to the complexity of the finished beer... general advice is tough with this subject- ryane and oldsock have blogs with lots of great info on them.
 
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