Real Ginger Beer, and how much alcohol can the plant tolerate?

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dinnerstick

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i don't know if this is the right forum for this discussion but i am wondering if anyone knows how much alcohol a real ginger beer plant (Saccharomyces florentinus and Lactobacillus hilgardii) can tolerate. Most recipes i have seen aim for a percentage around 2%, and i appreciate that it's meant to be more of a soda than a boozy drink, but i want to try a stronger brew and i can't find any information on how far i can push it. Anyone?

Bueller?
 
I just brewed some with real Ginger and I think the origional gravity was 1071 and it is primary now. I used us05 yeast. I have the recipe at home and will post it later today around 330 pm est
 
i just got this strain of ginger beer plant and don't want to poison it off on the first brew, so i started with 1.038 which fermented dry can only give around 5%. assuming this stuff converts all the sugar to ethanol. my recipe was:
fresh ginger, about the size of my total thumb inventory, that being two thumbs of about average thumb size.
half a lemon, peeled
a few shakes cayenne pepper
100 g demerara sugar
juiced the ginger and lemon in my kitchen juicer. dissolved the sugar in some poor-man's-dechlorinated water (ie left out overnight). combined everything to a final volume of about 1L and added the ginger beer plant, which came dehydrated and had been revived by a few days dip in sugar water. after 24h it is starting to fizz a bit and the globby chunks of the plant are starting to bob around as they should. more details to follow
 
start with 2 gallon tap water in pot

added .5 pack of us-05 yeast to seperate vessel at 90F with 3 tsp sugar

lots of ginger sliced into 1/32 (1mm?) discs with a sharp knife
.5 packed cups of ginger
6.5 cups sugar
20 cloves
1 lemon juice
1 lemon zest

added 2 c. ginger before boil started
bring to boil
boil time 1 hr (like a wort)

added
@55 min: 1/2 c ginger + 5 cloves
@30 min: 1/2 c ginger + 1 lemon juice + 1 lemon zest
@10 min: 1/2 c ginger + 10 cloves

strained mixture
brought back to boil (sanitation)

gravity now 1092 @94F

brought down to 76F and diluted with tap water (we have hard water here) to 2 gallons @ 1070

Pitched yeast and into two 1-gallon bottles w/ blow off tubes


it lagged quite a bit as I think the yeast either:
1. don't like acid (lemon)
2. too little (it was really more like .3 pack of yeast
3. it's some high gravity stuff and they got distracted
4. something else (feel free to post a funny or useful comment)

so lag was about 16-24 hours (time I was at work)

Now at 70 hours and a whole bunch of activity 1 bubble per 5 seconds.

Updates to come.


So in short no idea about the plant but worst case scenario pitch some ale yeast and see what happens. I know it will ruin the plant but you will get activity. Also once you have the plant ready to go I need some :grin: !

Please don't duplicate what I did as I am new to brewing this is just a fun attempt and a reason to play with equipment. Unless it's good. Then we should all make a lot. Then drink it.
 
when this batch is done and carbed up i will sample it blindfolded, then without the blindfold, and then in a dark and stormy with some havana club dark rum and some cubes of ice, until i feel blindfolded, and then (the next day) i will make two batches, one with the ginger beer plant, which is simply strained off the previous brew and added to the next, and one with some leftover safale04 yeast. then i can report on the differences between these, after i drink them. i can only make small batches since the plant is pretty small and i have a feeling it would take too long to ferment a large brew, opening the door for all kinds of nasties since nothing is sterile
 
I understand I was just using some safale us-05 to get it out of the fridge, and get acquainted with my hydrometer. At roughly 85 hours now and still have a lot of activity. Keep me updated and I will too.

On a side note I think I will be leaving the sugar content in the fermenter so that I can use the remaining for carbonation, and some sugar flavor.
 
I just 'bottled' my first batch. since i am really shooting for a refreshing soda-type drink on my first batch i bottled at around 1.029, very sweet, low alc. the plant was still waking up from being dehydrated and was finally really starting to work. the little globs of stuff bob up and down in the brew looking freaky and ominous. strained them off and bottled to plastic carbonated water bottles. i am not going for anything classy on the first batch. the stuff tastes amazing. sweet, lively even though it's not carbed up, hot at the finish from the ginger, which has been nicely subdued by the ferment, sour notes from the lemon and presumably from the lacto? overnight the bottles are already getting pretty firm to the touch. very promising that fermentation carries on nicely after straining off the plant.
 
mine stalled at about 1.040 and I pitched some slurry from an IPA, it is still blubbing around now. I stole a bit from gallon jug number 1 and it seems perfect, yet a bit sweet. I added some seltzer and it was great. I will see how far it will go without it getting bitter or too alcoholic.

2/11/11
Now just pulled both gallons out at 1.037, no activity from the added yeast. Just bottled one gallon and pitched another slurry into the other and put in a warmer part of the house.

I placed the bottles in a pail in case they bomb on me.
 
all right, i'm sold on this stuff. if you want to make real low alcohol ginger beer, get yourself a ginger beer plant. i don't think this will be the best way to make a knock-your-socks-off boozy version but for young fresh lively 1-2% ginger beer in a few days, get yourself a plant!! i bottled my first one after two or three days of fermenting (in a soda bottle), it carbed up very quickly, and it's excellent. spicy, sweet, tart and fizzy. the fizz and ginger bang gave me the hiccups. there is very little lees since the active yeast/bacteria stay together in the big lumpy conglomerates, so there's no clearing time. it ferments slowly so it's very easy to control sugar level. 2 or 3 days fermenting a liter or two, then transfer the plant to the next batch, on and on like that and you are bottling a few bottles every few days. or you can put it to rest in low % sugar water. i still don't know how vigorously it will ferment after removal of the plant, but it's still active enough to carb up in 2 days. so i have 1 more trial going where i got it to about 2% alcohol and removed the plant around 1.040, will monitor gravity for a few days. i got my plant from this place:
http://www.retro-culture.com/ginger-beer-plant.html
i have no connection to them or anything to gain by advertising them but they were very good, friendly and they ship worldwide, 20 pounds gbp not cheap but it's good stuff
i intend to post some recipes using the plant once i have experimented some more
 
Just wanted to say hey to you two..... keep up the good work!
I have 2 batches going and have tons of notes.... I also am going for max alcohol.. (have some friends getting ready to sail away and I thought some GBP may go good on a boat!).

My two day old has 2.9 % right now and just moved it to secondary ferm. container.... shooting for 8%...
We'll see!
Love to keep up with you two tho.... maybe between all of us we can get 80 proof!
 
hi i keep making 1 liter batches with the GBP, each time intending to try to push up the %, but i keep drinking it before it gets there! it's goo tasty that i can't help myself, i still haven't got much over 1.5%
my GBP has become more active, it now takes 3 days to ferment to 1.5% and 2 days to carb, so i am going to set it to work on a 5 liter batch, get myself some bottles in stock, and then experiment with percentages...
 
got my second batch in:
(sorry for the odd measurements)

4 pounds of ginger (blended in water to make a slurry)
5.5 cups white sugar
3 lb of light brown sugar
100 cloves (whole)
1 tbsp cinnamon

brought up to boil
let steep
pitched Wyeast Califiornia Ale WSP001? from slurry
shook the crap out of it.
just hit fermentor this morning (let cool overnight, I know this is bad)
didn't get the hydro reading (broken)

this is a bit spicier smelling and more full tasting.
 
Here are some details:

Batch 1 for 2 quarts- unrefined organic sugar
43 g peeled, sliced and mashed ginger
lemon juice, cream of tarter, peppercorns
and ginger beer plant

Batch 2 for 2 quarts - unrefined organic sugar
49 g peeled, sliced and mashed ginger
lemon juice, cream of tarter, peppercorns
25 g sliced and mashed serrano chilis

Batch 1 I started at 71 degrees and brought it up to 84 degrees over the next couple of days - SG was temp adjusted to 1.1132. This one has been slow to start bubbling but maybe it’s because I thought the GBP was ready after it’s long trip and it still had jet lag. A little light on flavor and too sweet but good. SG now is 1.084 and 3.8 % on day 6.

Batch 2 I immediately brought the temp up to 79 degrees and put on warming mat. This one started to bubble fast and furious! SG was temp adjusted to 1.1205. As of day 6 it is at 4.2 % alcohol with a slightly green flavor of serrano, sweet and good! This second batch, although started 2 days after batch 1, has surpassed it in alcohol (4.2 vs. 3.8)

On both, the GBP was pulled after 2-3 days so that it wouldn’t be killed by increasing alcohol.

That’s it so far!
 
here is my latest: 1.5 liter batch, 10% sugar (=around 1.040); half white sugar and half dark brown. 1.5 limes and 2 thumb sized ginger chunks, juiced. its bubbling away but oddly the gravity hasn't gone down that much in 2 days. it's really delicious now, the murky bitterness from the brown sugar and lime is very different from the clean sourness of lemon and ginger alone. (speaking of murky this stuff looks like puddle water!) could use a bit more ginger since the other flavors in here are so strong. want to get it down to around 1.028ish, i think that's where i like the final sugar level.
sisuuk: let me know how the fermentation carries on after you remove the plant, i am curious. and the serrano sounds great. when you open a carbonated bottle and sniff it, the little aerosol droplets of spice are going to fly up your nose and you are going to sneeze. guaranteed. what is the cream of tartar for? do the peppercorns work? it gives me the idea of fresh green peppercorns from the thai deli.
and that just gave me the idea of galangal, which of course is the cousin of ginger but a bit more savory, like turmeric a little,... i'm going to try this: thai galangal beer; galangal, ginger, green peppercorns, lime, red chilis, palm sugar!
 
glass ,,, ice cubes ,,, dark rum (havana club 7 in this case) ,,, healthy squeeze of lime ,,, homemade ginger beer . not a half bad dark and stormy
 
Hey dinnerstick... I like your thoughts on experimenting! So does my lady cause she's into Thai food....
I removed the GBP on day 2 and it made no difference in the fermentation.... My recipe said to do that and that saves your GBP.... so far, they are right!. Their recipe aims for 8.7% alcohol at the end. - I am giving this a shot and so far, I am on (or close) to the mark with batch 2 and will fall a bit low on batch 1. Just tested % and batch 1 is at 5.3% with 6 'official' days to go and batch 2 is at 6.1 % with 8 days to go. Peppercorns don't really seem to have much (any) influence on taste/smell.... but who knows? I did it to both! Supposedly the cream of tarter buffers the PH and keeps it from going too crazy in either direction. I love the serranos in there! My lady says that she prefers batch 1 but that batch 2 (with the serranos) seems 'fuller and more flavorful'. She just likes the sweetness of the other! I agree that experimentation with sugar is in order.... I will probably mix 50/50 like you with palm or muscovado (?) sugar just for kicks...
Today I start my plum wine and a grand experiment.... tomato wine!
My home-made kahula looks good too! Next week, rice wine (for the lady!).
 
my batch with lime and brown sugar was excellent. unexpectedly after a day in the fridge after it was carbed up the brown sugar darkness settled out leaving it clear! odd. i mixed it all back in before drinking; i want all the bits in my glass. delicious; slightly bitter, fresh, a bit sweet, ginger on the back of the throat. the lacto sourness is wonderful.
today i made a thai flavors batch (1.5 L); juiced galangal (1 thumb), ginger (2 thumbs), lime (1.5), lemongrass (1 shoot, yup, it juiced), 1 small thai red chili. forgot the green peppercorns- next time. cooked palm sugar (150g) with 2 kaffir lime leaves and 1 lemongrass shoot. as this was cooling i tasted the fresh juice. fresh galangal didn't quite live up to my fantasy billing; it is incredibly medicinal. so i mixed the juice in with the still hot sugar to temper it a bit. added back in a little more fresh lime and ginger. tastes ok, slightly astringent/medicinal but it has the sweet and sour and the ginger/chili kick up front and some slightly confused spice in the background. i'll see where it goes as it ferments. probably not there yet but for a first try it's not too bad
 
Have read a couple of these threads and see that some are using yeast with the GBP?? An honest to goodness GBP does not require yeast to work, and if you have a recipe that requires yeast then you don't have a real GBP.

I have friends who use the recipe from http://www.happyherbalist.com/gingerbeerplant.aspx, and their plant was handed down from their family in England and has been confirmed to be from the DSMZ Strain 2472, a true GBP. Or check www.gingerbeerplant.net or www.yemoos.com under their cultures/supplies section.
 
hi saramc, did you read the thread? the discussion has been (largely) about using gbp, not yeast
 
Some earlier ones were using yeast though & not everyone ends up reading all of the thread (though I did). Enjoy reading the updates on your experiments dinnerstick, and those of the other GBP users on the forum.
 
update: galangal was not a great idea. in the future i will save it for my curry pastes. the batch i have going smells like mustard! mmmmm! haha
 
Well, we drank the ginger beer! I have to say that it came out speeeetacular! Every single person (except my wife) loved the serrano chili pepper beer the best!
Batch #1 (a slow fermenter) went the full 15 days and ended at 7% alcohol.
Batch #2 (fast fermenter) was pulled (drank!) 2 days early but had 8.4% alcohol. I have no doubt that I could have gotten the 8.7% that the recipe predicted.
Does anyone know how far you can push the ratio of GBP to water? My recipe calls for 45 ml of GBP for 1 liter of water..... can I use the same 45 ml GBP in 4 liters of water and just give it a day or two more? anyone with experience on this? Another recipe says one TBSP (apx. 15ml) works for 2 liters of water.
Last question.... a poster brought up the lineage of the GBP to be original.... anyone know what strain comes out of www.gingerbeerplant.net?
Thanks all! Can't wait to make my next batch!
dinnerstick - mustard huh? weird but I would drink it!
 
it started out as mustardy but matured into more of a burning tires on a hot dragstrip kind of aroma. it was bad. i wouldn't touch it but my kitchen sink loved it
i made a lemongrass/lime/lime leaves batch, and it's ok but just nowhere near as good as the straight stuff so i'm back to just normal ginger beer and chalking up my asian experiment as pretty much a failure. still trying to clean the galangal taste out of the GBP. i am also going to start making larger batches with the same amount of GBP, although my GBP is noticeably growing.
 
sisuuk...the strain at gingerbeerplant.net is Saccharomyces florentinus and Brevibacterium vermiforme, you can always contact Jim and he can answer any questions you may have. I received my plant from him today (friends were supposed to send me one, but they knocked theirs over by accident and the dog got most of it). Per the recipe that Jim sends he recommends 1 tbsp GBP per liter of water.
 
are we talking volume of dry GBP or fully hydrated? mine looks like around 75-100 ml wet (loosely packed) and i use this for 1.5L batches. i bet it could do a much bigger batch so my next will be 4 L. when dry it was probably 20-25 ml. (1 tbsp = 15 ml)
if i am not mistaken all true GBP strains are S. florentinus and Lactobacillus hilgardii (new name for B. vermiforme, same bacterium)
 
Hey Gang!
Thanks for the replies! I guess I wasn't specific enough.... I was wondering about the strains in terms of DSMZ Strain 2472....or others.... I have heard of one other strain floating about and was wondering what gingerbeerplant.net sends out (I did send an email to the site and have yet to hear a response.... guess he is drinking too much of the fruits of his labors!). More just from curiosity and cause I would like to name my little wee beasties!
I was wondering about wet weight.... I strain mine and then go from there so I have been using about 100g to 2 liters of water.... Like you dinnerstick, I am going to up the H2O and give it a bit more time.... see what happenes! Can't wait....! Next couple of days and I should start.... do you guys (actually you, not hearsay) store your GBP dried in the fridge when not brewing? So far, I have kept mine at room temp with lotsa food.... but it hasn't really been growing (about 5 weeks). Just curious.
 
since mine arrived a couple months ago they have been on the job full time. i have been wondering what to do with them when i go on vacation...
have a look at this site
http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html
Dom's famous kefir site, and GBP is basically kefir grains under another name, there is a ton of information there on use, storage, drying, activity, everything. also water kefir recipes (to him ginger beer is a ginger water kefir) some of them look interesting. i haven't read the whole site but he says his GBP (or SKG for sugar kefir grains) grow by 50% each brew. i certainly don't have such strong growth. in fact mine started growing at first but have slowed down considerably recently. i added in the little bit of reserve dry grains from my original order, and these ones are gangbusters. far more active than the previous ones, although they are still fermenting. so i must have done something mean to my guys, i accidentally got them kind of warm once, and of course i subjected them to some nasty galangal. but apparently they can be pretty finicky and increase or decrease in activity easily.
 
pasted from dom's site
http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html

Regarding Growth-Rate of SKG SKG that I have cultured over the years, including many individuals who culture SKG, have observed a fluctuation regarding growth rate of SKG. I have observed growth increase to vary between 7% to 220% increase by weight at 48 hours. However, if the sugar solution with other added ingredients, and more importantly, with the addition of a very small amount of sodium bicarbonate and eggshell, if the solution ingredients are kept constant, including the amount SKG used and the fermentation time is kept to 2 days per each batch, then growth increase can be expected to remain reasonably constant between 90% to 120% per each batch of water kefir. On the other hand, milk kefir-grains increase at a reasonably constant rate when cultured in fresh milk. Many individuals including myself, have found a great potential for SKG to cease propagation, and remain non-propagable, when cultured in water with low mineral content. More so with activated charcoal filtered water. The outcome is mostly observed as a slow deterioration in growth over time, which at a point, becomes irreversible. At this point, SKG acquire a light brown film over the surface of each grain, and the grains lose the typical transparency of good growing [propagable] grains.

Although there are many factors to consider, the important one being the type of sugar and water used, duration of fermentation including sugar/water percentage. SKG do not appear to grow well, and in most cases growth ceases altogether over time, when cultured in a sugar solution prepared with purer forms of water, such as distilled, demineralised or activated carbon filtered water [Brita filtered water e.g.] etc. Leaving SKG in the same sugar-solution for longer than 3 days over many batches and in warmer conditions, has an adverse effect regarding growth-factor of SKG. Lack of essential nutrients and energy source due to over fermentation, is a cause for problems, if starvation happens over an excessive number of proceeding batches.
 
another update:
lemongrass, kaffir lime leaf, ginger, palm sugar, lime: this batch wasn't amazing at bottling but actually tastes pretty good after carbing a couple days. it is pretty dry at around 1.020; could be a bit sweeter as it is a little watery. more sugar and more lime and this would be a real winner. and it even has a hint of the galangal from previous batch carried over and it is slightly medicinal but pleasant. what i did: for 1.5 liters cook the palm sugar with the 2 sticks lemongrass (diced finely) and 2 lime leaves for a few minutes, let cool. added a 'normal' amount of juiced ginger and 1.5 juiced limes. water to 1.5L and added the GBP for 2 days.
on another note i have followed dom's advice (above) and given my GBP a little TLC: i ground a bit of egg shell, added a spoon of molasses and some raw sugar and some water, strained off GBP from latest batch (i am finally making a high alcohol batch) and added it. after just an hour it was foaming and churning, much more than when i make ginger beer! overnight it is going totally mad, bubbling, foaming, churning. i think it likes it
 
the GBP loved its spa treatment, it grew a fair bit and i could see new globlets forming at the liquid/air interface, like tiny snotty whisps. and when i added it to a 4L batch the gravity dropped quicker than i've ever seen. 1.044 to 1.036 in a matter of hours. foaming away. i also added a bit of molasses and eggshell to this batch. it is really going for it. after this batch i think i will have enough to set some aside and dry it to keep as reserve
 
zik2rm.jpg
 
Awesome! I put some marmite, molassas, organic sugar a little lemon juice and a touch of cream of tartar in mine and for a couple days it was really going.... still not sure how to get growth or long term storage (meaning 1-2 week storage). Thanks for your other posted info.... haven't really looked at it too much, but I will.
yesterday just started a new batch - I am doing 2 liters for 2-3 days, removing the GBP and putting it in another 2 liters for 2-3 days and then combining both batches.... We'll see how that works!
 
I made my best batch ever, and largest at 4 L.
started out with demerara sugar 10% and a few spoons dark molasses, my usual amount of ginger and 1 lemon. OG 1.044. fermented 2 days and then removed the GBP. tasted it, it needed more kick. tripled the ginger and added the juice of 2 more lemons, and let it carry on for three or four more days without the GBP, the gravity kept dropping but now very slowly. at around 1.028 i bottled, some in plastic and some in glass. the glass ones that didn't fit in my lettuce drawer i pasteurized on the stove. haven't tried the cooked ones yet but the normal ones are amazing. the molasses is an absolute must for future batches. also it fermented much better (i think) without a lot of lemon, and adding ingredients after straining off the GBP worked fine. after this batch i have so much ginger beer in reserve and my GBP has grown very large, so i dried half of it for storage, by spreading it on some paper towels. this all seems to be going fine. the one thing i haven't managed is a high abv ginger beer since after i strain off the GBP the stuff starts to look like it's going to go moldy after a few days, since i am not very sterile with my ginger beers. not at all sterile, i should say. still considering making a potent batch with ale yeast but i haven't got around to that yet.
 
this fits into the "if anyone gives a crap" category, but here goes anyways, i didn't know what to do with my very active gbp when i went away for a few weeks, so i put it into some fresh dilute sugar water and in the fridge, changed the sugar water when i got back, and it was roaring almost immediately, first new batch was bubbling away within hours
 
ice cubes + havana club 7 year dark rum + ginger beer + squeeze of lime

any questions?
 
i jusssssst got a plant.....this is way too cool......

Think mines still recovering from the journey over here....kinda sits at the bottom and doesn't do much else...except it makes a lotta bubbles....a lottta....
 
mine did that for a few days, it's funny stuff, picks up momentum over a few batches.
 
Just some info for anyone thinking about trying this. There is no federal or any other regulation on selling GBP and many sites individuals out there are less than honest about their GBP. Many sell plain yeast, water Kefir grains or in the case of retro-culture.com a hybrid of water kefir grains. since there is no regulation this is technically not false advertising. some sites i have found in my research to be selling the true ginger beer plant are Gingerbeerplant.net run by Jim MacDonald, he is an active and very helpful member of the yahoo GBP group. HappyHerbalist.com is family run and sells GBP that has been in their family for generations. Only site ive fould based in the US is Yemoos.com, their GBP seems to genuine. Hope this info helps since it seems some people are being mislead about what they are actually purchasing.
 
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