hygrometer indicates stuck fermentation from hot days - repitched but no action yet?

Hello fellow broo-ers!

First post for me, I have searched the forums here for all my questions so far and has been very useful, so thank you all, but I am at a loss for my current situation on re-pitching?

I brewed a Black Rock Riwaka Pale Ale from extract kit ( http://www.blackrock.co.nz/brew-kits/item/73-riwaka-pale-ale ) according to instructions, with another can of Ultra-Light unhopped malt as per instructions.


Brew Day was successful, no problems encountered and all variables accounted for SG was 1.043 as expected and FG is supposed to be 1.014

The fermentation started off vigorously, bubbling every few seconds for the first 2 days (we were in a heatwave, days between 32-35 degrees Celsius. The fermenter thermometer indicated the wort was at 26-28 degrees Celsius throughout this period. The morning of the 3rd days there were no bubbles. I then proceeded to take the following readings with 2 different hydrometers over the next few days:
Brew Day 1.043
Day 3 1.020 | 1.020
Day 4 1.018 | 1.020
Day 5 1.016 | 1.020
Day 6 1.016 | 1.020
Day 7 Opened it up and gave a stir, figuring the yeast might have stalled. LHBS person told me to do this and a few threads also indicated this as an option. I think in hindsight that was a mistake, but there you go.
Day 8 1.016 | 1.020
No change in gravity so I pitched a dry packet of Morgan's american ale yeast into room temperature filtered and sanitised water for 10 min , then poured without stirring into the fermenter. Sealed the lid and gave it all a wiggle.
Day 9 (today) no visible action, same readings from hygrometers.

My current theory is that from the amount of alcohol in the fermenter already, and the lack of simple sugars and oxygen means that the new yeast will take awhile to get started? Or have I shocked the yeast and need to repitch again? Please help!

UPDATE:

I have taken hydrometer readings again:
Day 8: Repitched new yeast 1.016 | 1.020
Day 9: 1.016 | 1.020
Day 10: 1.015 | 1.017

There is fermentation happening!! So I might just leave it another day or 2... wait and see what happens. RHAHB

Sounds like it's done fermenting. With extract brewing, you're kind of at the mercy of the extract manufacturer. If it was mashed a few degrees higher then you have more unfermentable sugars and you're finished gravity will be slightly higher than predicted. I'd be more concerned about the 26-28 degree primary ferm temps. I'd recommend trying some kind of temp control, like a mini fridge, tub of water with ice, etc. That's very warm for just about anything but saison strains. BTW, you use a hydrometer to check the density of a solution. A hygrometer is used to measure moisture in the atmosphere.

Yeah, high fermentation temperatures will not cause the yeast to stall. On the contrary, yeast prefer higher temperatures and ferment much more efficiently as the temperature gets higher (up to around 37C to 40C). The problem is that they also produce more and more off flavors and fusel alcohols as the temperature gets higher which is why we like to keep them in the 16C to 21C range depending on the strain (for ale yeasts).

As microbusbrewery said, your fermentation is probably done. Expected FG is not an absolute number at all. It depends on a bunch of different factors. I would say the fermentability of your extract is probably the main factor in your higher than expected FG though.

I would also look out for off flavors in this batch and look into a method of controlling your fermentation temperatures going forward. Or you could just brew exclusively with saison yeast!

Ok thanks !

I really wish I hadn't stirred it to reintroduce oxygen post-pitching.. it tasted BEAUTIFUL and hoppy, i was so looking forward to it! Now it has a stale taste.. so disappointed.. damn LHBS!!! they are good for prices but damn, her advice has been off!

I will bottle these and proceed with another batch.. this time I might boil for longer to break down the sugars, yes? I have also acquired a fridge I can primary ferment in, stays cool even when not plugged in but it does work, I found flicking it on for half an hour every 24 hours brings it down to 20 Celsius.. until I can buy a temperature controller anyway. Better than leaving it in the hot house!

Cheers again!

Why are you concerned about the relative humidity of your beers?

GilaMinumBeer said:

Why are you concerned about the relative humidity of your beers?

Click to expand...

Ha, I didn't get this until I read the title again. It better be 100% in the middle of the fermenter.

spiltmilker said:

Ok thanks !

I really wish I hadn't stirred it to reintroduce oxygen post-pitching.. it tasted BEAUTIFUL and hoppy, i was so looking forward to it! Now it has a stale taste.. so disappointed.. damn LHBS!!! they are good for prices but damn, her advice has been off!

I will bottle these and proceed with another batch.. this time I might boil for longer to break down the sugars, yes? I have also acquired a fridge I can primary ferment in, stays cool even when not plugged in but it does work, I found flicking it on for half an hour every 24 hours brings it down to 20 Celsius.. until I can buy a temperature controller anyway. Better than leaving it in the hot house!

Cheers again!

Click to expand...

Bottle condition this beer and see what happens.

Post the recipe for your next beer before brewing. Might get some good advice that will help avoid some of the pit falls. (One of the most basic pit falls is following an out dated recipe).

GilaMinumBeer said:

Why are you concerned about the relative humidity of your beers?

Click to expand...

I have adjusted my spelling thanks for the tip microbusbrewery, the LHBS owner called it a hygrometer.. yet again, her advice is off haha

UPDATE:

I have taken hydrometer readings again:
Day 8: Repitched new yeast 1.016 | 1.020
Day 9: 1.016 | 1.020
Day 10 (today): 1.015 | 1.017

There is fermentation happening!! So I might just leave it another day or 2... wait and see what happens. RHAHB

So, you're concerned that it was 1.016 instead of 1.014???
Rousing your yeast with a gentle stir won't oxidize your beer in a million years. Any and more than likely you will have some nasty off flavours are due to your ferment temp. That's gonna be some interesting beer

Have brewed this one a while back, did a two can of it and it finished at 1012, I used us05 yeast... Tasted great.. Give it a few weeks in the bottle at least...

Follow the advice of the fermenation temp, but also note this thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=553916

Shooting for 20C in the chamber is still not going to be cool enough to prevent too many of the off-flavor-causing compounds.

As you've learned, don't stir your beer after fermentation has started. Unless you stirred the ever-living crap out of it, I doubt you'll taste the oxidation right away, although you will lose a significant amount of the hop flavor and aroma due to that, which is the opposite of what you want with this style. I'd go for 2-3 weeks at your room temps, and it should be good to go with bottle conditioning. Then consume quickly before the oxygen completely ruins the batch. Though with all of the fermentation off-flavors you're likely to have, I doubt the oxygen will make that much of a difference at this point.

But the biggest mistake I see that you've made here, and that I'm surprised nobody has commented on yet:
Leave that beer alone! Don't touch it, don't take off the lid, don't take out the airlock, don't do anything with it other than keep it in a cool place for the first 5-7 days, then let it warm up to about 22 or so for another week after that. Beyond the oxygen, I don't see any way that you didn't introduce tons of wild bacteria and yeast with all the messing you've done with it. I would make sure and under-carb it a bit just in case you've picked up an infection, which will continue to ferment it in the bottle and could cause bottle-bombs. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if that's the reason why your gravity randomly dropped again.

My biggest piece of advice for you at this point in this hobby is make sure to read tons of beginner brewer books before your next "brew" day. You don't wanna waste another 5 gallons!

I would be more concerned with you opening up the fermenter and taking gravity readings every day from day 3. The chance for infection just grows everytime you open it up.

Step away from the fermenter..... It is best to pitch the yeast and then just let the yeast do what it has been doing for thousands of years. Day three is waaaay to soon to start checking gravity. Next time, let it alone for at least 10 days. I never even think about checking mine for a couple of weeks. Yeast do not punch a time clock, so just give it time to do what it does.

edit: Josh beat me too it, but we agree.......

Bellybuster said:

So, you're concerned that it was 1.016 instead of 1.014???
Rousing your yeast with a gentle stir won't oxidize your beer in a million years. Any and more than likely you will have some nasty off flavours are due to your ferment temp. That's gonna be some interesting beer

Click to expand...

No I was concerned that it was 6 points difference.. ie. 1.020 to the supposed FG 1.014

I didn't know which hydrometer to trust, they both calibrate in pure water..

spiltmilker said:

No I was concerned that it was 6 points difference.. ie. 1.020 to the supposed FG 1.014

I didn't know which hydrometer to trust, they both calibrate in pure water..

Click to expand...

But at what temperature? Some hydrometers calibrate at 15.5C, some at 20C. One of them is clearly off, and I would guess it's the one reading 1.020, since it later dropped 3 points when the other only dropped one. But also, if your beer is sitting in the mid-20s, then the reading needs to be temperature corrected anyways.

My hydrometer is calibrated at 20C, but my old one was calibrated at 15.5C (60F, bought it in the US).
So if I read your beer sitting at 26C, those would calibrate to:
reading - 20C - 15.5C
1.020 - 1.021 - 1.022
1.015 - 1.016 - 1.017

So that last reading when you got 1.015 could even just be that the temperature has begun to drop closer to your calibration temp, and therefore the reading is more accurate.

joshesmusica said:

But at what temperature? Some hydrometers calibrate at 15.5C, some at 20C. One of them is clearly off, and I would guess it's the one reading 1.020, since it later dropped 3 points when the other only dropped one. But also, if your beer is sitting in the mid-20s, then the reading needs to be temperature corrected anyways.

My hydrometer is calibrated at 20C, but my old one was calibrated at 15.5C (60F, bought it in the US).
So if I read your beer sitting at 26C, those would calibrate to:
reading - 20C - 15.5C
1.020 - 1.021 - 1.022
1.015 - 1.016 - 1.017

So that last reading when you got 1.015 could even just be that the temperature has begun to drop closer to your calibration temp, and therefore the reading is more accurate.

Click to expand...

This makes the most sense to me now... ****. everything was fine. WHY COULDN'T I JUST LEAVE IT ALONE!!!!??? haha.. oh well, time fixes everything. One of my last brews hadn't tasted so good at 4 weeks conditioning but 8 weeks later (12 weeks) it's starting to taste reasonably good

beergolf said:

I would be more concerned with you opening up the fermenter and taking gravity readings every day from day 3. The chance for infection just grows everytime you open it up.

Step away from the fermenter..... It is best to pitch the yeast and then just let the yeast do what it has been doing for thousands of years. Day three is waaaay to soon to start checking gravity. Next time, let it alone for at least 10 days. I never even think about checking mine for a couple of weeks. Yeast do not punch a time clock, so just give it time to do what it does.

edit: Josh beat me too it, but we agree.......

Click to expand...

I have a spigot at the bottom of my fermenter. . No lids being opened when i take a reading

Spray the inside of the spigots spout with sanitizer after each draw for a SG sample. This will reduce the chance of bacterial growth.

spiltmilker said:

this time I might boil for longer to break down the sugars, yes?

Click to expand...

I forgot to comment on this one.

No, not what will happen if you boil longer. And you shouldn't even be boiling those ready made extracts anyways. They are only meant to be warmed up, as the instructions say, then dump in and mixed with a little warm water, then mixed with cold water in order to bring it down to say, 18C. If your water can't get it that low before pitching the yeast, think about an ice bath. If you boil longer you'll likely actually be making more caramelized sugars, which would make it less fermentable. The other option to try in order to bring the FG down lower than the expected (if you're looking for a drier beer) is to add 100 grams of table sugar to the whole thing. Just bring some water up to boiling, add in the sugar, make sure it's all dissolved into the water, then cool it down to the same temp as the rest of your wort.

joshesmusica said:

I forgot to comment on this one.

No, not what will happen if you boil longer. And you shouldn't even be boiling those ready made extracts anyways. They are only meant to be warmed up, as the instructions say, then dump in and mixed with a little warm water, then mixed with cold water in order to bring it down to say, 18C. If your water can't get it that low before pitching the yeast, think about an ice bath. If you boil longer you'll likely actually be making more caramelized sugars, which would make it less fermentable. The other option to try in order to bring the FG down lower than the expected (if you're looking for a drier beer) is to add 100 grams of table sugar to the whole thing. Just bring some water up to boiling, add in the sugar, make sure it's all dissolved into the water, then cool it down to the same temp as the rest of your wort.

Click to expand...

Thank you for this, I have been curious about it. My friend who introduced me to homebrewing brings his extracts up to the boil and leave its for an hour apparently.. but for my pale ale brew I was thinking boiling for an hour when it's already has hops added according to recipe is only going to destroy the lovely hop flavour! So I following instructions, and glad I did.

Also, I took another reading today. It has stabilised at 1.015 and 1.017 respectively and the flavour is better than it was yesterday and day before, not as strong in hops but still good, with a few weeks conditioning it will be totally drinkable. I look forward to doing the same extract kit again but being more patient and utilising my fridge to stabilise temperature throughout primary fermentation.

Today is definitely bottling day.

cheers everyone for your help!

spiltmilker said:

Thank you for this, I have been curious about it. My friend who introduced me to homebrewing brings his extracts up to the boil and leave its for an hour apparently.. but for my pale ale brew I was thinking boiling for an hour when it's already has hops added according to recipe is only going to destroy the lovely hop flavour! So I following instructions, and glad I did.

Click to expand...

Yeah, but your friend is probably working with extracts that aren't pre-hopped? So he's boiling for 60 minutes because he's gotta add the hops in, and a typical bittering addition is boiling for 60 minutes. But he's likely caramelizing some of the sugars in the extract if he's boiling the whole thing for 60 minutes. Typically it's suggested to add about 1/4-1/3 of the extract at the beginning, and save the rest for flameout. So there's some tips for when you "move up" in your brewing style.

As for yours, don't bring it to the boil. It's only meant to be warmed up in order to make it easier to get it all out of the little tub it's packaged in, and to help it dissolve into the water better. There's no point whatsoever to bring it to a boil. I didn't read the instructions, but I would probably dissolve it in about 5 liters of warm water (like 45-50C), then top all that off with 14L water at like 15C. If it's a 19L batch, that is.