Gypsum: When to add it?

I'm looking at a Boddington's clone and I see the creator of this recipe adds gypsum. I doesn't say when to add it and I'm wondering when to dump it in during my extract/grain brew session.

Any ideas from someone who has succesfully employed Gypsum in a brew?

Gypsum is added to the water during the boil.

Get an analysis of your water from your water company. From there you can check its calcuim sulphate level and compare it with a water chart in your brew books to match any water requirement for a city where a particular brew originates that you're interestied in brewing...or not.

Actually another question has arisen. This recipe also calls for adding 3 ounces of white sugar. Why not just add more Extract?

ps.Thanks Homebrewer_99

Nos - What specific recipe are you looking at for this? I glanced at the recipes on the board and didn't find one with gypsum. Unless I overlooked this.

I have added gypsum at the start of heating the water for the mash. Only did it once. (Dortmunder-PM) I believe it lowers the pH to help the enzymes do their thing. Calcium Carbonate neutralizes acids thus raising pH. I think you need to be 5-6 pH after the grain is in the tun.



Sugar boosts ABV w/o adding body or malty sweetness. 3oz is not much - 1/2 cup?

Here's the link to the recipe:

http://hbd.org/brewery/cm3/recs/01_91.html

Thanks Schlenkerla, I guess it makes sense to add a little sugar when Boddington's is a rather bitter ale. Agreed, it is a rather small amount in any case. I find it interesting that this recipe also calls for brown sugar for priming. I guess this might add a little maltiness from the molasses.

Water chemistry is much more critical to the mashing process than it is to the boil. So, unless you're water chemistry is especially unusual, the easiest way to deal with it would be to ignore it.

That's not to say you shouldn't do it--just don't sweat it too much.

cweston said:

Water chemistry is much more critical to the mashing process than it is to the boil. So, unless you're water chemistry is especially unusual, the easiest way to deal with it would be to ignore it.

That's not to say you shouldn't do it--just don't sweat it too much.

Click to expand...

I remember reading somewhere that adding gypsum enhances the bitterness of the hops some.

Boy - I can see why your going with the AG. I don't know if I would consider the extract version. They must have meant to leave out the pale malt only.

homebrewer_99 said:

I remember reading somewhere that adding gypsum enhances the bitterness of the hops some.

Click to expand...

That's right. Altering the water chemistry can also coax certain subtle flavor nuances out of the yeast.

There's an excellent appendix, IMHO, on water profiles in the Szamatulski Beer Captured book. You look at your water report and determine which of 5 profiles best fits your water chemistry. Then they tell you what to add to your water to maxize the water chemistry for something like 20 different styles or groups of styles. It's pretty straightforward.

Yup. I think they knackered the extract version or possibly it was lost in the transcription from the original source to the online recipe.

I know we have really neutral water in Vancouver so I'd be interested to try adding some Gypsum just to see what the end effect would be.

Maybe I'll just crumble up some drywall/sheet rock into my kettle!!!

Woah, in the middle of writing this post I found this:

If you use gypsum, as well as adding calcium to your water you will also be adding sulphate. Sulphate is reputed to accentuate hop bitterness and to make the palate dryer. For 23 litres of water (5 gallons) every one gram of gypsum will increase the calcium level by 10 mg/L and the sulphate level by 24 mg/L.

Now, sulphate is a powerful laxative (any regular Bass drinker will testify to that) and to avoid this unfortunate effect it is generally a good idea to keep sulphate levels below about 150 mg/L. Add the amount of sulphate in your water analysis to the amount you will be adding in the form of gypsum end if it exceeds 156 mg/L think about using alternatives such as calcium chloride. At levels below 150 mg/L sulphates will have little or no effect an hop flavour or bitterness. If you really want to reproduce Burton water you have to add sufficient gypsum to eliminate temporary hardness and extra on top of that to bring sulphate levels to 638 mg/L, the average value for Burton water. You have been warned about its effects!

Sounds like gypsum either has no effect or makes you crap yourself silly. Maybe I should call it Piledriver ale!

cweston said:

Water chemistry is much more critical to the mashing process than it is to the boil. So, unless you're water chemistry is especially unusual, the easiest way to deal with it would be to ignore it.

Click to expand...

Good point. Any recipe that calls for adding salts to the mash or sparge water w/o giving the water profile of the starting water should be seen with caution. That's what the brewer had to do to make the mash pH work. If mashing works for you with your water, don't worry.

The Epsom salt in the kettle is for raising the sulfate levels which enhances hop bitterness perception.

Kai

edit: looks like a lot of replies happened while I was writing this

As I said, the water here is neutral. Looking at the 2005 water analysis I see there's only 1.4mg/L of Sulfates. This means I would need to add 60 mgs of Sulphates to reach the levels of Burton water. How this converts into tsps I have no idea and would have to weigh it.

Always use a good gram scale for Gypsum.

I add to both the mash and sparge water, to good effect. Just calculate out the water profile for the style you want, compared to your water. Aim for an approprite Ca level, without adding too much Sulphate, and balance that out between mash and sparge, erring slightly on the side of more of it in the mash.

(In my opinion)

-Dylan

Necro thread...I googled gypsum in brewing and find my own HBT posts... LoL.

Looking at gypsum and water treatment as my water is soft and below 48ppm of calcium. Thinking hop forwardness and beer clarity.

I would advise against adding minerals to your water without knowing your starting profile and the intended profile. If you do not have a basic understanding of water chemistry, it is much easier to mess a beer up by adding minerals than it is to improve it. That being said, water minerals should be added to the strike and sparge water for your mash to create the proper profile for conversion, flavor, and PH.

Tbagger said:

I would advise against adding minerals to your water without knowing your starting profile and the intended profile. If you do not have a basic understanding of water chemistry, it is much easier to mess a beer up by adding minerals than it is to improve it. That being said, water minerals should be added to the strike and sparge water for your mash to create the proper profile for conversion, flavor, and PH.

Click to expand...

I occasionally look back at my first homebrewing book. Charlie Papazian's The Complete Joy Of Homebrewing.

I somehow stumbled onto the beginners water section and saw the initial description and uses of gypsum and salt. He mentions how soft water can benefit from the addition of gypsum. Your point of knowing what you got is mentioned vs blindingly adding minerals to your water. In near every reference to making additions this is stated. Know what you have first.

I did like the relative importance of gypsum (calcium sulfate) in brewing water.

1) Buffering for pH levels.
2) Helps with clarity and flocculation.
3) Makes beers more hop forward.

All assumes if used properly. Not ending up with too much calcium or sulfate.

I particularly like this since I'm pushing the limits with short fermentation times using soft water. I spund. I'd like to see if a little more calcium in the way of gypsum makes a difference in yeast flocculation. I'm not going to mind more hop forwardness either.

I've also been using some home made sauermalt for pH adjustments. I just got a digital pH meter for $36 vs using pH papers. (I'm color blind) Just another thing to fiddle with here. After 13 years of Brewing using mostly the same soft water I've deciding to start toying with my water.

My water profile is below.

When I first got into water profile I had my water checked . It was obvious why I could make a stout without any additions of salts or acids . The lighter stuff has benefited tremendously from having my water treated. The only difference is I now use RO water since it's just easier to build up. Its usually 9 or 10 ppm and for 25cents a gallon you cant beat it. As for Gypsum , i always add to room temp mash/sparge water and stir to dissolve .

You defiantly need to understand your waters mineral composition before you start messing with it. Or, use distilled and adjust from there.

I highly recommend Bru'n Water as your tool for determining what to add and when. As to the OP question, gypsum and other minerals are typically added to mash and sparge water.

cweston said:

That's right. Altering the water chemistry can also coax certain subtle flavor nuances out of the yeast.

There's an excellent appendix, IMHO, on water profiles in the Szamatulski Beer Captured book. You look at your water report and determine which of 5 profiles best fits your water chemistry. Then they tell you what to add to your water to maxize the water chemistry for something like 20 different styles or groups of styles. It's pretty straightforward.

Click to expand...

Thanks for this tip!

The thing that made the light bulb go on for me was learning why different styles of beer became associated with different places in the world.

In places (the UK) where water was very alkaline, Stouts and Porters were the thing. Why? Because to bring the pH of the mash down to the most effective range (5.2 to 5.6, generally), something acidic needed to be added. Dark grains are more acidic than light grains, thus the dark grains brought the pH down to range.

In places (Pilsen) where the water is not very alkaline, using such dark grains would have brought the pH down too far--so lighter grains were used because they wouldn't bring down the pH as effectively. Think light lagers for an example of this, a Pils.

That's why many brewers (like @Jag75 above) start with RO water and build it up. When doing that, you can make any composition of water you want, and you'll not be dependent on what your water allows you to do effectively.

My municipal water is drawn from limestone formations 1100 feet down. It's very alkaline. In all-grain, suitable only for stouts, really. Thus my RO water. My typical strike water is 1 gallon tap water, 7.25 gallons RO water, and the necessary salts and such to bring it up to where I want it. CaCL2, MgSO4, SMB, maybe some lactic acid, maybe some CaSO4. Some BrewtanB.

The above chem formulas are Calcium Chloride, Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom Salt), sodium metabisulfate, and Calcium Sulfate (Gypsum). Took me a long time to make those part of my vocabulary which, to anyone struggling with water chemistry, I'd advise doing. Maybe what makes this harder is people bounce back and forth between the formulas, the names, and the common names: CaSO4, Calcium Sulfate, Gypsum. It was when I realized that all three of those terms were being used interchangeably that I had an easier time of it.

Just yesterday was looking at a counter top/Portable RO system. Any suggestions to look for on a system. My brewery is in my work apartment. My landlord doesn't want anything non standard. It's typically whatever can attached to the faucet aerator.

Walmart has some pretty low cost portables.

https://www.walmart.com/search/?query=ro system

FWIW - Stupid maintenance has sweated lines to the faucet. Either that it's so old that it was standard practice at the time.

Depending on your batch size, you may find it more economical to buy distilled water. Thats what I do for a 60% blend with my tap water.

Nagorg said:

Depending on your batch size, you may find it more economical to buy distilled water. Thats what I do for a 60% blend with my tap water.

Click to expand...

I prep about 7 gallons of liquor for 5 gallon batches.

Where are you getting it and how much? Gallon sized or a carboy of water?

I buy distilled in gallons for my practice of making smoke malt, sauer malt and carmel malts.

I recently purchased one of these. I am very happy with the system so far. Takes my tap water from a TDS of 300 down to ~8. My municipal water system uses chloramine and after filtration it is undetectable using a commercial pool water test kit.

VTX1300 said:

I recently purchased one of these. I am very happy with the system so far. Takes my tap water from a TDS of 300 down to ~8. My municipal water system uses chloramine and after filtration it is undetectable using a commercial pool water test kit.View attachment 646175

Click to expand...

Thanks petty officer vtx1300!

I buy in gallons, usually get the 2.5 gallon jugs because its a little cheaper and has less for the recycle bin. The cost is just under $1.00 per gallon. Since I blend it with my tap water, I'm not having to buy the full amount needed for my batch.

I've looked at RO but havent gone that route personally because of the initial cost of a "good" system and logistics of where I'd even put it in the first place. Also, apparently there is a significant waste of water (how much is wasted for each gallon collected) to factor in. Not to mention, you need something to collect the water in and it takes some time for all of this.

I typically brew 10G-15G batches so thats a lot of water to handle. So, I just get distilled from the store.

Before buying this I was using distilled from the grocery store. I got tired of lugging 8 or so gallon jugs home every time I wanted to brew. Not to mention the additional cost per batch. This should pay for itself rather quickly. I also started using RO water in my coffee maker.