To decant your yeast starter, or just pour it all in?

I've never made a yeast starter--I always just use the 150 ML Wyeast Smack Packs.

I figure for my next brew I'll probably try one (since I've been making bigger beers lately).

My next beer is going to be a pilsner, so not a huge beer and probably not necessary to make a starter, but I want to get used to making them.

So my question to you all is--do you pour off the starter beer and just pitch the slurry or do you pour in the whole volume of your starter?

I've read a lot about both and I want some first hand experience with doing both. Convince me!

My understanding is if you let the starter ferment for about 24 hours, you can let it sit at room temp for about 3-4 hours, pour off the liquid on top, then stir up the yeast cake/sediment and pitch that to your wort. Correct?

It's really up to you, some decant, or some just swirl it all in. One factor to consider is whether or not the "starter beer," the liguid on top smells sour or not. Often, especially in the summer it may sour in only a few hours. Some folks add a hop pellet as a preservative/preventative measure. The couple of ounces of sour beer wont really affect the taste of your finished product (unless maybe you were brewing an extremely light tasting beer.) It's really up to you.

Another factor is whether or not the yeast is a low flocculating yeast and there may be a lot still in suspension. The "beer" will be cloudy rather than clear-ish. If it's a witbier or hefe yeast for example it might be better just to swirl and pour it all in, you'll get the max number of yeast cells that way.

My starter flask is huge and often I will build up a starter over a few days and end up with 1 1/2 to 2 quarts of "beer" in it. If the yeast has pretty much flocculated I will, if I have time cold crash it like the web pic above, but even if I don't I will carefully pour off all but about 2 cups of the liquid, then swirl the remainder to re-suspend the yeast and dump it in my fermenter.

if you are making a lager, the starter which should be about 1 gallon, I would decant

A few things:

-for a pilsner a large starter is even MORE necessary than a big ale because you'll be fermenting much cooler (hopefully) and lagering.

-I second what Revvy said - If it's a yeast that flocculates (falls out of suspension and collects at the bottom) I will always decant the liquid off before pitching. If the yeast doesn't flocculate (Hefe yeast for example) I dump the whole thing. In general I'd rather not pollute my wort I worked so hard to create with the starter beer that's not the same grain bill.

-if you're to get the yeast to settle out of suspension you'll have much better results putting it in the fridge overnight rather than letting is sit at room temp for a few hours.

Assuming you are providing a lot of oxygen to your starter throughout, I strongly believe in decanting as the starter wort will be oxidized.

I tend to make a 2L lager starter with a stir plate and two white labs vials. If you have no stir plate and prefer to buy one vial you are probably looking at nearly a gallon starter. That's a lot of oxidized beer to through in 5 gallons.

My plan is just to follow the howtobrew.com instructions for making a starter. It seems as though decanting would be best though, especially in a delicate beer like a Pilsner.

I'm going to serve my Dead Guy Clone at about 45 degrees, and I'm thinking I might start brewing the Pilsner soon and just ferment and serve in the same fridge. I should be done drinking the Dead Guy by the time fermentation is over and it's time to lager.

Ben_Persitz said:

My understanding is if you let the starter ferment for about 24 hours, you can let it sit at room temp for about 3-4 hours, pour off the liquid on top, then stir up the yeast cake/sediment and pitch that to your wort. Correct?

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Start your starter 1 week prior to your brew day, then put it in the fridge 3-4 days prior to brew day to crash out as much of the yeast as you can before you decant off the spent wort. If you don't give it time in the fridge you'll be decanting off most of the good yeast cells still in suspension. If you start the starter 24 hours prior to brew day you'll need to pitch the entire thing.

My experience, your results may vary.

My personal rules for a 5G finished batch is to decant if I use the stirplate or if the starter is greater than 1L (which is 5% of the volume of my batch). I think that is a pretty conservative position though.

I will bend my rule and pitch starters bigger than 1L or with a stirplate if it is a more intensely flavored recipe and I'm pressed for time (e.g., hoppy, roasty, etc.)

YMMV. Good luck.

i've been making mine about 1.5L for starters on a stirplate for about 24-36 hours, then in the fridge for as long as my brewday takes.. usually by then its out of suspension nicely so i decant easily.. no sense adding that "beer" if its not necessary

krenshaw said:

i've been making mine about 1.5L for starters on a stirplate for about 24-36 hours, then in the fridge for as long as my brewday takes.. usually by then its out of suspension nicely so i decant easily.. no sense adding that "beer" if its not necessary

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My method exactly..I make the starter on Wed, then brew on Sat...crash-cool in fridge Friday AM

For extract kits..you typically are topping off with water. Couldn't you just leave out 1/2 gallon of that water and pitch the whole thing?

You can, but if you made your starter on a stir plate you are replacing 1/2 gallon of water for 1/2 gallon of sour/oxidized wort. The water should be tasteless...

I sure hope your starter isn't soured, otherwise you have some issues.

You want oxiginated wort, the yeast will grab available O2 from the aerated wort, there shouldn't be anything to worry about. If your starter is sour or estery you probably won't want to add it to your wort depending on the volume.

I say it depends on the time, if you have time then chill it and decant, if not pour at high krausen. I decant most of the time, though.

9 times out of ten, i'll decant as much of the beer as i can without losing any yeast, i've pitched a full starter at high krausen, and had good results, but it's my preference to decant.

I'm brewing a Saison partial today using Wyeast 3711. I made a 1L starter 48 hours ago and it's starting to drop out. If I used the same DME I'm using in the recipe and it doesn't smell sour, shouldn't I be OK to pitch the whole thing? I don't want to lose any of these very hearty yeasties.

lolobrewman said:

I'm brewing a Saison partial today using Wyeast 3711. I made a 1L starter 48 hours ago and it's starting to drop out. If I used the same DME I'm using in the recipe and it doesn't smell sour, shouldn't I be OK to pitch the whole thing? I don't want to lose any of these very hearty yeasties.

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You'll be fine. But don't even freak out if the starter "beer" smells sour, it happens a lot, especially in the summer, since there's no hops in it. Though in the future, some folks do hop their starters.

Why would you hop a starter?

OvaTersley said:

Why would you hop a starter?

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I think it's used as a preservative.

OvaTersley said:

Why would you hop a starter?

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Like I said, to keep it from souring, especially if you don't plan on decanting it. In warmer places, or during the summer it is often a good idea because un hopped beer will start to sour even within 1 day.

If you're building up a big starter over several days it's really a good idea. usually folks just add one or two hop pellets during the boil.

What would cause it to sour?

OvaTersley said:

What would cause it to sour?

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Lactobasilus, & Aecetobactor to name a couple common ones that like to eat our wort.

Revvy said:

Lactobasilus, & Aecetobactor to name a couple common ones.

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So do hops have antiseptic properties?

OvaTersley said:

So do hops have antiseptic properties?

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Yes. That's one of the main reasons we use hops in beer.

OvaTersley said:

So do hops have antiseptic properties?

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of course they do. it's the main reason people started using hops in the first place.

Thanks for the info Revvy. So much to learn.

If you're getting lactobacillus & acetobacter in your starters there is a major problem with your sanitation practice.

If there's lactobacillus &/or acetobacter in the starter wort you're decanting off then there is lactobacillus &/or acetobacter in the yeast you left behind. If you pitch this infected yeast your whole batch will be infected because the lacto & acetobacter will continue to grow.

Starter worts taste bad because there very yeasty and very green. The starter wort will have fermentation byproducts (acetylaldehyde & others) the yeast have not cleaned up. It should not taste like this because of wild yeast or foreign bacteria.

OP - its personal preference to pitch the entire starter or decant. Per Mr. Zainasheff. If you want to pitched the entire starter it should be done at high krausen, usually around 18-24 hours on a stir plate. Of you want to decant the starter should be completely fermented out, about 36 hours, then crash cooled.

Mazey said:

Starter worts taste bad because there very yeasty and very green. The starter wort will have fermentation byproducts (acetylaldehyde & others) the yeast have not cleaned up. It should not taste like this because of wild yeast or foreign bacteria.

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There's a TON of "my starter is sour" threads on here..... Not yeasty or apple cidery but SOUR....

You can watch the first basic brewing video and see the same thing happen in a mini batch of beer.

These Basic Brewing Videos confirm it from PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE...

May 15, 2008 - Base Malt Experiment
We get unexpected results when we compare unhopped beers made with three different base malts.
Flash Video

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And Lacto and Aeceto were used used as illustrations for some things that like to go after beer.

Brad or Beersmith and John Palmer both mention adding hops to a starter to preserve it.

Beersmith Blog said:

http://www.beersmith.com/Recipes2/recipe_346.htm

Hops help preserve the starter if you intend to store it or use it in a few days.

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Mazey said:

If you're getting lactobacillus & acetobacter in your starters there is a major problem with your sanitation practice.

If there's lactobacillus &/or acetobacter in the starter wort you're decanting off then there is lactobacillus &/or acetobacter in the yeast you left behind. If you pitch this infected yeast your whole batch will be infected because the lacto & acetobacter will continue to grow.

Starter worts taste bad because there very yeasty and very green. The starter wort will have fermentation byproducts (acetylaldehyde & others) the yeast have not cleaned up. It should not taste like this because of wild yeast or foreign bacteria.

OP - its personal preference to pitch the entire starter or decant. Per Mr. Zainasheff. If you want to pitched the entire starter it should be done at high krausen, usually around 18-24 hours on a stir plate. Of you want to decant the starter should be completely fermented out, about 36 hours, then crash cooled.

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but if the hops are antiseptic, wouldn't they kill the bad bacteria in your beer?

It's my understanding that the main reason to make a starter is to allow the yeast to make their various reproductive byproducts somewhere other than the beer you drink. Decanting allows you to pour off these compounds and then pitch your multiplied yeast into your beer. If you don't decant, I would think you would end up with something similar to a beer without a starter. Not identical, but similar.

The purpose of a starter is to grow yeast. You want to grow yeast so that you have sufficient yeast cell count going into your wort to produce the desired amount of fermentation. Starters also can help reduce lag time and can help in the prevention of stuck fermentations. The higher the original gravity of the wort the higher the cell count needs to be. More sugar needs more yeast.

OP: Under most conditions you will want to decant, which is what I prefer to do. However there are times when I do not for one reason or another. Such as timing or yeast blending and others. For your first try, I would do a starter several days ahead (like 4) and let the starter sit for at least 2 days on a stir plate if you have one. Then chill it for at least 24 hours and then pull it from fridge and decant and pitch, or you can decant and let it warm for 30 to 60 minutes then pitch, I do the later.
Good Luck on your next brew!

I've done both with good results. For me it was the timing. When I make it a few days ahead of time, I.cold crash and decant. Last night I made a batch of beer and pitched the whole starter at high krausen. In less than six hours I had a bubbling air-lock.

So if I'm understanding correctly, when you brew a beer with a lot of hops in it, it should be darn near impossible to get an infection, right? Since hops are antibacterial and antiseptic? Or am I just confused.

OvaTersley said:

So if I'm understanding correctly, when you brew a beer with a lot of hops in it, it should be darn near impossible to get an infection, right? Since hops are antibacterial and antiseptic? Or am I just confused.

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You won't get a bacterial infection but a wild yeast infection is possibly (but not likely)

There's plenty of bacteria that aren't bothered by hops. Hopping your starter is also no defense against Brett, wild yeasts and whatever yeast you had in that container before. As long as you sanitize and cover everything, you should be fine.