minimalist experimental brew

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DansBrew

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My first post was deleted by moderators because of the language and terminology used in describing my intent for an experimantal beer. I will avoid using the words I used previously, because I'm looking for insight for a particular method which I'm now dubbing minimalist. Please don't ask what words I used, and don't try to guess. I'm looking to brew a one gallon experimental batch of beer. I was playing with brew builder and found a recipe using minimal grain and no hops. I'm not going to post why, because it got my thread deleted last time. I'm trying to stick within a certain "specialty" style. The recipe is as follows, from brew builder for a 1 gallon batch.

1lb, 8oz of flaked oats(I'm only going to use oats

1lb 0oz of turbinado sugar(would like to use table sugar, any conversion?)

Nottingham dry yeast.

The OG is 1.075, FG is 1.019, abv 7.34.

I want this to be my foundation for the wort. What else can I add, without adding hops, or more grain, or extract to increase color and flavor? I'm thinking of an apple cinnamon, or citrus fruit profile. I do not want to use commercial additives, im looking for answers like slices of apple during the boil, or during fermentation. Things like that. Could I add teabags for flavor and color?
**note to moderators** please don't remove this thread. Its an experimental topic. I'm not looking for sloppy techniques here. I'm looking for a minimalist approach**
 
No malt, no hops. This is not beer, experimental or otherwise. All fermentables in this beer will come from the sugar- the oats will not convert without enzymes from malted grain. Basically, you're making cider with a nice head.

If you want apple-cinnamon, add cinnamon. If you want citrus, add citrus zest with ~5m left in the boil. Tea bags in the boil will overextract and add unpleasant tannins- if you go for tea, brew it separate and then add to the ferment.
 
I understand this isn't "beer" in the traditional sense, I posted in recipe because i thought maybe there was a style out there, however rare and obscure, that uses this type of approach. Obviously wine uses different ingredients, and lambic and bitters use others, as do mead and ciders... I just dont know where to begin... Thanks for the tip about adding with 5m left. I was thinking that since there is no hop schedule here that after steeping or whatever I would be doing here, that I would boil for about 15 or so minutes... Any thoughts on that?
 
What you're making here isn't beer. It doesn't matter what you're trying to do, but this aint beer. As far as that goes, why not put malt in it no matter what you're trying to do? Even if you're trying to use distillers yeast and create a clean base I think you might be best served using some malt in it. I'm possitive there are websites out there, VERY possitive, that cover what you're trying to do.

Without knowing exactly what you're trying for, it's fairly difficult to help. Obviously potatos, sweet potatos, carrots, and lots of root vegetables have lots of fermentable starch in them. Don't forget corn, cook all/any of them before putting in a fermenter. Also I'd suggest using a wine yeast since this aint beer. Good luck.

Schlante,
Phillip
 
Thanks... Vegetables with starch might help as well. I'm trying to use anything other than pils malts and all. Would whole grains like from bread work? I'm newer to brewing, New enough to not have experience in making my own recipe. I'll have to look into the ale yeast thing. Im not sure about what websites youre referring to, but I can tell you that distilling has nothing to do with why im asking...
 
Try looking up prison wine on the Internet. There might be some websites that will be able to help you.
 
Thats exactly the phrase I didn't want to see posted here...geez. I know beer needs malt. I know it needs hops. I want to know what you get when use use another means of getting fermentable sugar. Obviously its not gonna be for everyone. Just like some people don't like lambics or meads. I don't know. Maybe its a dead end. I want to see what happens when you try an alternative method of getting alcohol. I'm not looking to make moonshine or anything like that. I'm not looking to call my creation prison wine. I just want some insight on alternative brewing...
 
Are you looking for a flavorful beverage crafted using creative means, or just a cheap way to make booze? If you're after the former, your approach needs a lot of refinement. If you're after the latter, you're in the wrong place.



BTW, it's usually poor form to restart a thread that just got shut down. This one's on very thin ice.
 
Google George Washington small beer. Then go buy Radical Brews by Randy Mosher. This will get the creative juices flowing.
 
Marko- It's ok, no hard feelings... I used some of the same terminology in my original post, and thats why the post was removed by moderators... I'm comfortable saying that now, because Nurmey really pointed me in the direction I wanted to go... Alternative methods of brewing and trying to get a palatable concoction from it. Prison Wine, is definitely not what I'm trying to make here, although it loosely resembles what I was trying to figure out... It resourcefully uses basic everyday items to created a fermented and alcoholic beverage. As one who works within the law enforcement field, I certainly do not condone violating institutional regulations in acquiring materials for the production of fermented beverage. I want to make it perfectly clear, that I am not looking for a recipe or technique on how to make a prison wine, if that was the case, I would simply ask an inmate next time I saw one. I was looking for an alternative and minimalist approach to experiment with fermentation and the products there of...
 
So if anyone can add any recipes, something slightly warm in the mouth with maybe a fruity, sweet taste... I'm interested in a one gallon batch...
 
The former Yuri... Something that isnt necessarily beer or wine in traditional sense, but that still tastes good, and I can have fun experimenting and tweeking a basic recipe... Like playing with a given recipe for a Belgian beer, changing adjunct, and different malts and such...I like to tinker, Its why I enjoy firing up my smoker, and trying different smoke wood on meat, and different rubs... Just because I like to blaze my own trails on occasion
 
Ok, you terminology is quite a bit better on this thread,

I still feel that your math for you ABV is terribly wrong.
Besides that, I see where you are going. It is an interesting experiment.

For future brews turbinado only offers about 44 points per pound. (1.044)
There is nothing to convert that oatmeal in to a fermentable sugar.
As for flavoring after fermentation the world is your oyster! I would suggest that you avoid adding any sugar/corn syrup sweetened items for flavor as they would promote a secondary fermentation/carbonation.

I would try to flavor after you get your base finished, doing that will aid in you getting the finished product that you are striving for.

I would try Austin Homebrew Supply for flavorings and possibly filtration to get the yeast out of your "solution"

Please keep in mind all of us here are interested in keeping this site safe and free from legal involvement.

There is nothing wrong with your attempt, but your wording was problematic.

-Jason
 
Thanks Cheeto,
I was under the (apparently wrongful) assumption that I could steep some sugars out of the oatmeal. I was also using the brew builder web app to determine ABV. So since I cant get fermentables out of the oatmeal, basically im getting a sugar water wort with a slight oatmeal taste? lol. I think I need to do more research then on attaining fermentables.
 
I have heard of certain chemicals that might offer up the enzymes needed for starch conversion. A search (with the proper terminology) could lead you in the right direction.

For your next attempt I would start with Honey! The support for Honey wines (meads) is pretty solid here! Moreover you might not end up with something that you could be pouring down the drain.
 
BTW, it's usually poor form to restart a thread that just got shut down. This one's on very thin ice.[/QUOTE]

- I didn't see that when I initially responded with my other comment. Sorry to skate the thin ice on you guys. I had a direction in mind, and poorly communicated it the first time. I tried to aleviate any implications of nasty brewing, to get some sort of direction going with this. I would agree that this post was heading in a downward spiral fast, until the Grocery and Produce put me on track with what i had imagined in my head, yet failed to put into plain old english. I mean no ill will.

Dan
 
Dan,

The Mods here do not go out of their way to shut down a persons thread.
They have a very simple charge, Maintain Order.

I am glad to see that you have this thread going in a positive direction, and I do wish you the best of luck with this.

How long have you brewed beer/wine?
I notice that you are a fairly new member(less than a year) that can also lead to an early dismissal to a thread.

Do you have any current beers/wines in the works ?
 
Cheeto,
I've only been at it for about 6 months. My wife got me a kit for fathers day/bday. My first batch, a Saison that knocked my socks off. I have 3 left and dread the day when they are gone. I have 2 more batches under my belt, and am tired of the boxed steeping grain kits. Im learning the All grain process from a coworker/neighbor. I'm just looking to experiment with small batches, that way if things go bad, its only a small batch. I thought about doing the 1 gallon mead thing. I've never had mead before, so I don't know what to expect.
 
From the PM Dan gave me, I understand he's trying to understand what the heck the appeal to these kind of "brews" are by using himself as a lab rat.

Either that or he got addicted to prison hootch while working in law enforcement.. lol

I know a few cops.. some of them are beer connoisseurs, some would drink fermented lemonade that was made by accidentally leaving in the sun. :D

A real minimalist approach to beer would be malt extract and spruce tips.
 
Denny- yea youre correct to an extent as far as appeal. I do want to try and make something that tastes good, using common items. That grocery and produce thread is exactly what I'm looking for. I don't just want sugar water with a jolly rancher flavor. That not what I'm looking to try. I want to make something that I sip and go "holy #### this is actually good" Like some of those guilty pleasures known as wine coolers(blasphemy I know) I would never sip something that was fermented in a trash bag and filtered with a sock...
 
Cider: It doesn't get any more minimal than this.

The Easy Way:
All you really have to do is leave the cap loose on a jug of (unpreserved) cider, and leave the jug on the counter. When it gets good and tangy, it's at about 3%. I used to do this back in college. I would get two gallons, put one in the fridge, one on the counter. When the one on the counter got good and fizzy, I would mix them together, and store them in the fridge. This makes a very sweet cider, and needs to be consumed rather quickly, as it will keep working in the fridge. This cider does not actually fit any established guidelines as a hard cider, but it's tasty and fun.

Still Easy:
To get slightly more serious about it, replace the cap with an airlock. After it's done fermenting (spontaneously, with the naturally occurring yeasts and bacteria), you can add back about 10% sweet cider (if desired), and store it in the fridge. It will also need to be consumed quickly, as the thin plastic jug is not impermeable to oxygen, and the cider will eventually turn into vinegar.

Getting Harder:
To get a lot more serious, put it in a glass jug or carboy, and use an airlock. That will keep extra oxygen out, and prevent vinegaring.

To be completely out of control, get ten gallons, knock out the wild stuff with campden, add pectic enzyme, acid blend and wine tannins. Pitch the wine yeast of your choice, ferment it out, adjust the final acidity and sweetness after malo-lactic refermentation has occurred in the spring, stabilize it with sulfites, counter pressure bottle it and make fancy labels for the bottles.
Click to expand...
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/i-thought-i-would-share-some-info-139409/
 
Also consider green herbs (rosemary, thyme, etc) for bittering and grassy/earthy flavors. Basil alone has so many flavor offerings to melt your noodle: lemon, mint, pineapple, sweet, ... You could consider growing your own and really be a minimalist/off-the-grid type of brewer. There are some on here that grow and malt their own barley.

Steep the individual herbs in hot water for ~5mins. Then sample them to discern what flavors they contribute. Then do some blends to get what you want.

Here is a link to several herb seeds on Wiki: http://www.johnnyseeds.com/c-3-herb-seeds.aspx

Here is a selection of just basil:
Common name Species and cultivars Description
Sweet basil O. basilicum The best known, with a strong clove scent when fresh.[6]
Thai basil O. basilicum var. thyrsiflorum 'Siam Queen'[7] Called Horopa (ต้นโหระพา) in Thai, scent of licorice from estragole.[5]
Genovese basil O. basilicum 'Genovese Gigante' Almost as popular as sweet basil, with similar flavor.[8]
Cinnamon basil O. basilicum 'Cinnamon' Also called Mexican spice basil, with a strong scent of cinnamate, the same chemical as in cinnamon. Has purple flowers.[5]
Licorice basil O. basilicum 'Licorice' Also known as Anise basil or Persian basil, silvery leaves, spicey licorice smell comes from the same chemical as in anise, anethole. Thai basil is also sometimes called Licorice basil.[9]
Spicy globe basil O. basilicum 'Spicy Globe' Grows in a bush form, very small leaves, strong flavor.[10]
Purple ruffles basil O. basilicum 'Purple Ruffles' Solid purple, rich and spicy and a little more anise-like than the flavor of Genovese Basil.[11]
Fino verde basil O. basilicum piccolo Small, narrow leaves, sweeter, less pungent smell than larger leaved varieties.[12]
Nufar basil O. basilicum 'Nufar F1' Variety of Genovese resistant to fusarium wilt.[13]
Magical Michael O. basilicum 'Magical Michael' Award-winning hybrid with an uncommon degree of uniformity, and nice flavor for culinary use.[14]
Lettuce leaf basil O. basilicum 'Lettuce Leaf' Has leaves so large they are sometimes used in salads.[15]
Mammoth basil O. basilicum 'Mammoth' Another large-leaf variety, stronger flavor than sweet Genovese.[8]
Red rubin basil O. basilicum 'Red Rubin' Strong magenta color, similar flavor to sweet basil, also called Opal basil.[8]
Dark opal basil O. basilicum 'Purpurascens' Award-winning variety, developed at the University of Connecticut in the 1950s.[16]
Cuban basil O. basilicum Similar to sweet basil, with smaller leaves and stronger flavor, grown from cuttings.[17]
Mrs. Burns lemon basil O. basilicum var. citriodora 'Mrs. Burns' Clean, aromatic lemon scent, similar to lemon basil.[7]
Osmin purple basil O. basilicum 'Osmin Purple' Dark shiny purple with a jagged edge on the leaves, smaller leaves than red rubin.[18]
Ocimum americanum cultivars
Lemon basil O. americanum[7] Contains citral and limonene, therefore actually does smell very lemony, tastes sweeter. Originally, and sometimes still, called "hoary basil". Popular in Indonesia, where it is known as 'kemangi'. Also sometimes 'Indonesian basil'.
Lime basil O. americanum Similar to lemon basil.[18]
Ocimum ×citriodorum cultivars
Greek column basil O. ×citriodorum 'Lesbos' Columnar basil, can only be propagated from cuttings.[19]
Thai lemon basil O. ×citriodorum (แมงลัก in Thai) Citrus odor, with a distinct balm-like flavor[5]
Holy basil O. sanctum
(alt. O. tenuiflorum) Also sacred basil, Tulsi (तुलसी) in Hindi, a perennial breed from India, used in Ayurveda, for worship, and in Thai cooking.[5]
Greek bush basil O. minimum
(alt. O. basilicum var. minimum) Forms a nearly perfectly round globe, with thin, tiny leaves and a delicious scent. Despite its name, the variety probably originated in Chile.[20]
Dwarf bush basil O. minimum Unusually small bush variety, similar to Greek bush basil.[6]
African Blue basil O. kilimandscharicum × basilicum A sterile perennial hybrid, with purple coloration on its leaves and containing a strong portion of actual camphor in its scent.[5]
Click to expand...

Speaking of seeds you can experiment with seed based spices or use seeds from fruit (pumpkin) toasted.

The problem becomes apparent when you have an active imagination and you see all of the possibilities in brewing.

Good luck.
 
As far as honey to make mead, the suggestion earlier of using "just 1 to 2 pounds of honey per gallon" won't get you anywhere. You need at least 3 pounds per gallon just to get a dry mead. Try 3-1/2 pounds in 1 gallon, and then add in some yeast nutrient (1tsp) plus the packet of rehydrated Lalvin D-47 yeast. That will get you started on a semi-dry mead.

Try the "Joe's Ancient Orange Mead" or the "Malkore's Ancient Orange Mead" as a first go. Joe's is made from ingredients you can get at the grocery store. Malkore's takes some additional ingredients, but all things you can easily get at the LHBS.

Warning: it will take quite a while to ferment out and get tasty. Somewhere on the order of 2-3 months in primary, followed by 6 months of secondary. But it's worth it.
 

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