Wheat Ale with EC-1118 possible?

I bought some 1118 to make mead, but I've got some leftover and time to kill. I want to make a wheat ale following a recipe I found:
1 lb American Two-row Pale
8 oz Wheat Malt
6 oz (1/2 cup) Honey
@30 min 0.5 oz Hallertau hop pellets
@1 min 0.5 oz Hallertau hop pellets
1/2 pkt Ale yeast
1/16 tsp irish moss (optional)

I don't have access to the Two-row pale, and will replace that with a different pale ale grain; and I want to know what should I call it if I use ec-1118 as my yeast. Is it still a beer? Should I add more honey to avoid getting a really dry flavor?
Thanks.

Most wine yeasts wont eat maltose from the malted grains. So after it is done eating the simple sugars it will stop and leave you with a very sweet beer.

Also you only have a pound and a half of grain, what size batch is this?

One gallon batch. I cannot afford the 50 bucks for a glass carboy; the price here. Nor do I have the space for it.
So not good for making beer then? I guess I'll have to buy a different yeast?

What if I left the honey out of the recipe? Would that help offset the sweetness you speak of? And, what sort of alcohol content would I get if the yeast does not eat the maltose as you mentioned? Honey would be the only source of ETOH, right?

oceanbrew said:

What if I left the honey out of the recipe? Would that help offset the sweetness you speak of? And, what sort of alcohol content would I get if the yeast does not eat the maltose as you mentioned? Honey would be the only source of ETOH, right?

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Ec-1118 is a hell of a beast. It ferments fast and will usually give a very low final gravity so I bet if you were to try any wine yeast this would be a good one to try. If you are up for an experiment go for it, that's more than half the fun of this hobby. But it may not he all that great. I would definitely keep the honey as it will give the yeast something to start on.

One thing you can do is use bean-o. It will help break the maltose into sugar the yeast can eat. But expect a very dry beer and make sure it really is done fermenting before bottling as it could cause bottle bombs if it is still working. You already have the yeast, the investment in grain is very minimal, I say go for it. I personally love to prove the status quo wrong through experimentation, just remember when you experiment like this you will have dumpers from time to time. Just learn from them.

I've used that ec-1118 for some mead and it's end result is Dry. Not sure i'd use it for beer, i think it's classified as a champagne yeast.

Yep, I think I'll have to try it. It'll be my first beer and if it comes out drinkable I know it will be unique. And that's what I am looking for. I definitely look into the bean-o. I could also ferment it first with a beer yeast then add the 1118 at the end with the honey, right? Dry meaning less sweet, couldn't I increase the honey and avoid the dryness?

RIC0 said:

I've used that ec-1118 for some mead and it's end result is Dry. Not sure i'd use it for beer, i think it's classified as a champagne yeast.

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When used for Apfelwein, I've seen the same verdict echoed. I won't know personally for several more weeks when my finishes.

I'm going to get the grains today. I'll keep you updated on results once beers ready.

I'm looking forward to it. Should be an interesting experiment.

Be

Here's an update on my ec 1118 wheat ale experiment. I did more research and it's basically a braggot. I'm using a honey wheat ale recipe, but instead of 1/2 pound honey, I've bumped it up to 2.5 pounds. I used 2 row, wheat and cara-pils with hops and honey to equal the weight of the grains. I will treat this like a beer, and let it sit in the fermenter for 2 weeks, transfer to a bottling bucket, add priming sugars and then bottle in sparkling apple cider bottles.
Attached is a photo of it. I like dry pitching and this is after 12 hours.

Tomorrow I bottle the stuff. Here's a pic. It pushed most of the hops up, which stuck to the glass. The bottoms got a thick yeast layer. The middle is about as clear as it's going to get I think. Anyway it's been two weeks. After it's bottled I'll try some after another 2 wks go by. I'm going to use one apple cider bottle in case it's good and I have guests. The rest will go in beer bottles, in case it's bad and I've got to drink it alone.

Looks awfully clear for a wheat beer.

I can't figure that out (the clearness)! I previously made a real wheat beer, not a braggot, and before I bottled it, it looked like pee after you've eaten a ton of Vit B complexes. I was really hoping for something really thick and golden. Instead I got glow yellow looks like bud with honey in it beer. I haven't tasted it yet (the beer). I was sort of wondering about the recipe. Here the brew store crew says no more than 40% wheat, but I think up to 75% should be good right?

Today was two weeks from when I bottled the ec 1118 honey wheat brew, braggot experiment. So I had some with an uncle. Poured like a beer, but had an alcohol vapor smell to it. First impression was a champagne bubble-like flavor. After about 1/2 a glass it felt like an apple cider-ish concoction that was sweet, but tart. It was difficult to appreciate the hops: Hallertauer 1oz (0.5 oz at 30' and 0.5 oz at 1'). There was a sort of a 'too young' taste to it. I only made a gallon, so I cannot afford to taste test regularly. I will probably let it rest in the fridge for an additional month before opening another bottle. I did not take a SG, but beersmith2 estimated alcohol by vol at 15% and actual alcohol by vol as 4.7%. I assume it was somewhere in the middle, from the way it mildly flamed across the tongue, and brain.
My final conclusion...if I paid money for it at a bar, I would overlook the flavor because of the alcohol kick. Or I would drink 1/2, say I didn't like it, and see if I could get a full glass of something different afterwards at no additional charge. I would definitely try to remember not to order it next time - I am not into ciders that much. Maybe after another month of maturation it will change my mind, as this was the first time I've ever tasted a braggot. I'll remember to take a photo next time I pop a bottle of it open.

oceanbrew said:

I did not take a SG, but beersmith2 estimated alcohol by vol at 15% and actual alcohol by vol as 4.7%. I assume it was somewhere in the middle, from the way it mildly flamed across the tongue, and brain.

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"Est ABV" is calculated using the "Est Original Gravity" (from the recipe, your equipment and the brewhouse efficiency you set) and the "Est Final Gravity" (from the average attenuation on file for the yeast you entered).

"Actual ABV" is calculated using the numbers you enter for "Measured OG" and "Measured FG". If you enter nothing, I believe it defaults to a 1.046 OG and a 1.010 FG, which will always reads 4.7% ABV IIRC. Disregard this number entirely if you took no gravity readings.

The clear, potent wine-y profile is exactly what I'd expect from EC-1118. That's why it's chosen for Apfelwein so often -- because it can mask the alcohol flavor behind a weak fermented tart apple flavor, making it a real SWMBO slayer, especially below 8% ABV.

Wheat beers are orang-y or golden and cloudy because the yeast specifically has been bred to stay in suspension and not floculate out like almost all other yeast strains.

Coincidentally, my favorite cider yeast is a hefeweizen yeast called Heistephan 68 (sp?), packaged as WLP300 or WY 3068 because it leaves the signature banana/clove flavors and stays nice n cloudy in the cider until you cold crash it down a bit. I think you recipe would have been good to great if you had used that yeast, FWIW.

Thanks for the feedback Thadius. I was never really trying to make a cider though. I love wheat beers, and just had the ec1118 sitting in the fridge, and thought, "Gosh. Wouldn't a wheat beer with like +11% vol be great!? Could I use a wheat ale yeast for primary fermentation and then add 2-3 pounds of sugar after one week of fermentation and pitch a packet of ec1118 and let it sit for another 1-2 weeks to get above 10% vol? Or would a monster be born?
By the way I just finished putting this same recipe (all-grain), but with only 1.2lb of honey (3 gallon batch), with safebrew-06 yeast (I'm cheap) into a carboy..again...I used expired sanitizer accidentally and lost the last batch. I'll have to think about the WLP300, but sorta wanna keep the style on this side of the pond. Unless, this next batch comes out too lacking in that traditional flavor.

EC-1118 is definitely a champagne yeast.

Also, I wouldn't worry about its ability to eat maltose. It'll ferment out just about any sugar you throw at it; it's a very aggressive, high attenuation yeast. So much so that I've switched to the Lalvin KV1 or 71B wine yeasts for mead making so that I do get some residual sweetness.

Well, here's what it looks like in a glass. It had a decent 1/4 to 1/2 inch head on it, but it doesn't last long. Still tastes tangy and overly sweet, with a slight bitterness from the hops (not enough to overcome the sweet undigested malt taste). I probably won't make this again. But it is drinkable! And still has a very slight fire to it. I just can't wait the couple of months needed for it to settle more.
Walking-Target: I did a lot of research before I did this. EC 1118 does not digest complex sugars such as those found in grains: maltose. Fruits have sucrose: fructose and glucose, both hexoses. Maltose is a complex of chains of glucose bound together. EC 1118 and other wine yeasts are very good at digesting fructose, but do not contain the enzymes required to break the a, 1-4 bonds of maltose. These are responsible for the branching quality of the sugar chain. We store glycogen the same way. But we have enzymes for the a, 1-4 bonds. To give you an example: cellulose has b, 1-4 bonds and like wine yeast cannot digest maltose, we cannot digest cellulose.
Anyway thanks all for your attention to my experiment! And I look forward to any comments and suggestions fro you.