leaky kegs, broken regulator, or user error?

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todd_k

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So I hooked up 2 kegs to pressure test them. both can't get over 10psi but when I lift the release valve they let co2 out. I'm new to this so I may be overlooking something but here is what happens. I hook up the keg and turn on the gas and the needle stays around 8 or 9 psi. I use a spray bottle and spray the top of the kegs and I can't see or hear any bubbles. when I turn off the gas, both the gauges stay where they are, the keg at around 8 or 9 and the tank at about 52 or so. I have to release the pressure from the release valve on the keg to make both of the gauges go back down to 0. If i leave the pressure in the keg and shut off the gas then remove the hose from the keg, the gauges still stay where they are until I hook it back up and release the pressure from the keg.
So it there something wrong with the regulator? is there something I need to do with the flathead screw/spring on the regulator or should I leave that alone? Also, there is another valve on the regulator, looks like a small ball valve, maybe? I move that around and I can hear the pressure from the tank shutting off and coming back on so I leave it in the "on" position.
 
The screw on the regulator is your output pressure adjust. You have to screw it in or out to change the pressure going out of the regulator. Sounds like everything is workign AOK to me. (option 3 in your title) ;)
 
Unless I am completely misunderstanding your situation, it sounds like the regulator is operating fine. My own regulator does something similar, I assumed that there is built up CO2 in the regulator body and if it is not released (i.e. through the gas quick-release), the regulator will still register the pressure.

Someone correct me if I am off-base, playing with CO2 is a learning process for me.
 
here are some pics of the regulator. if it matters this is an old tank, i'm not sure how old the regulator is.

IMG_0014-1.jpg

IMG_0013-1.jpg

IMG_0011.jpg
 
clayof2day said:
The screw on the regulator is your output pressure adjust. You have to screw it in or out to change the pressure going out of the regulator. Sounds like everything is workign AOK to me. (option 3 in your title) ;)

So should I adjust the screw to allow more than the 8 or 9 PSI in the keg? How long should it take to get a cornie up to 30psi?
 
Yeah, the screw is for adjustment, right to increase pressure, left to decrease it. It should be fairly quick at reaching 30 psi, but you'll need to bleed off pressure in the keg to go back down.


Are these kegs full of beer, or is this a test run?
 
Flyin' Lion said:
Yeah, the screw is for adjustment, right to increase pressure, left to decrease it. It should be fairly quick at reaching 30 psi, but you'll need to bleed off pressure in the keg to go back down.


Are these kegs full of beer, or is this a test run?

test run. I wanted to make sure they would both hold the pressure.
 
Everything is fine. You probably can't get the pressure any higher because you need to back off on the nut on the adjusting screw. It will allow you to turn the screw in further increasing the output pressure.

The secondary gauge is showing how much pressure is in the secondary passage. This can be pressure held back by the ball valve, held back by the quick disconnect (when you disconnect from the keg, it closes), or held back by the keg itself.

BTW, when you said the high pressure gauge reads 52, that's in bar. It's really more like 800 PSI which is a typical tank pressure.
 
Bobby_M said:
BTW, when you said the high pressure gauge reads 52, that's in bar. It's really more like 800 PSI which is a typical tank pressure.


He's basically saying that you need to read the inside scale.

3000 psi on the high side and 60 psi on the low (adjustable) side.
 
ok, so I don't screw this up, all I need to do is adjust the screw and the tank will allow more pressure to go into the keg?
 
yes. (and this is a few more characters because of the stupid 10 character minimum limit that prevents me from answering a yes or no question with just yes or no)
 
Regulators don't control flow, they control pressure. Starting with an unpressurized keg, once the system has equalized the pressure showing on the regulator is as high as it will get unless you adjust the regulator, and that pressure is the same throughout the system. To go higher, you screw the knob/bolt to the right. To go lower, the pressure in the system (keg) must be bled off to lower than the target pressure and the regulator should be adjusted to 0 or 1 PSI and then cranked back up to target pressure (at least that's what the instructions for mine say).

If you don't have a check valve in the line and the pressure is higher in the keg than the regulator setting when connected you could get backflow into the regulator.
 
ok, i adjusted the screw and got the kegs up to about 25psi. now the gauge for the tank dropped back down to 0 after a little bit but the gauge for the keg is till at 25psi even though it's not connected to anything. when I put the keg back on the tank, will it the gauge move any? I guess if it does then that means there is a leak in the keg somewhere, right? is there a way to release the pressure in the gauge so it goes back to 0 and when I hook it back up the keg, there won't be any doubt as to the current psi?
 
Is the valve on the CO2 tank on? If it's off that would explain the high-side gauge going to 0 or near it. There is still pressure in the regulator until you release it - you can turn it to 0 and back up a tad and hook it to an empty keg to release the pressure or, like I've done before, push your finger up in the ball-lock or pin-lock disconnect and release it that way.

There's really no reason to bother, though.
 
After you disconnect all the lines and turn the tank off the gages will still read some pressure. Take a screwdriver and push in the center pin on the quick disconnect and it will release all the gas in the hoses.
 
how full can I fill a 5 gal keg? I know, I know.... 5 gal. But is there a point on the corny that I should stop filling? My secondary has over 5 gal in it so I don't want to fill the corny too much.
 
todd_k said:
never mind, just below the short dip tube....
To be honest, as long as you keep the gas line pressurized, I don't think there is any reason you could not fill above the gas in dip tube - If there is pressure there, it isn't going back into your gas line.

You should have a check-valve somewhere in your gas line to protect your regulator anyway.
 
MA_Brewer said:
You should have a check-valve somewhere in your gas line to protect your regulator anyway.


X2 You definitely want check valves, they are a lot cheaper than having to replace a reg.
 
does the pressure in the keg drop when the beer starts to absorb the co2? please say yes.....
I don't have the co2 hooked up, just the 9 psi i left in the tank last night, it was down to about 5 psi this morning. I couldn't find any leaks last night before I filled the keg and I can't find any leaks this morning.
 
so the beer has been in the keg for a little over a week now. I poured some tonight and there is some good when I pour but it still seems a little flat. Should i turn up the pressure, turn down the pressure, or just leave it alone for a few more days?
 
I just got around to raising the pressure....

Another question I have is how do you control the serving pressure? What I mean is, when I pour a glass, it comes out of the tap pretty fast. I know what to the expect so I'm ready but I'm not sure others would expect it. Would releasing from pressure or turning down the pressure around serving time help it flow a little slower? Right now I have about 1 foot of line coming off the keg and I'm using a cobra tap.
 
Your pressure is dictated by the amount of carbonation you want in your beer. If you want it come out more slowly, add more line. The line provides resistance to the flow. Ideally, you want the beer to come out at about 1 psi at the tap.
 
Bobby_M said:
It won't hurt to raise the pressure one or two PSI at this point. Just test it over the next few days.

So a few days after cranking up the pressure to 15 psi, the beer is now overcarb'd, I knew this was going to happen if I left it that high but I got busy with some other crap and forgot about it. Since I now want to reduce the pressure, I disconnected the keg from the co2 and turned the screw so the pressure coming out of the co2 tank won't be a strong. I bled out all of the pressure that was already in the keg. Now, do I hook the co2 tank back up now or should I wait? I know all that extra co2 that's already in the keg needs to go somewhere so do I just keep bleeding off the pressure that's in the keg and then hook up the co2 later or is it ok to hook up the co2 now? Will this get beer in my regulator?
 
Don't hook it up unless you have a check valve in the hose. Just pull off a couple of pints and let the head settle until you can drink it. The pressure will drop in the keg until your beer is no longer over carbed. You can hook the tank back up at that point. It's better to wait a couple of minutes to drink your beer than to risk backing into your regulator.
 
Fingers said:
Don't hook it up unless you have a check valve in the hose. Just pull off a couple of pints and let the head settle until you can drink it. The pressure will drop in the keg until your beer is no longer over carbed. You can hook the tank back up at that point. It's better to wait a couple of minutes to drink your beer than to risk backing into your regulator.

Is this what you mean by a check valve? I'm having a little trouble finding a pic

check-valve.jpg



damn....that's big pic.
 
That is a big pic. By check valve, I mean a valve that has a movable flapper inside that opens when the pressure against the spring is greater than the pressure with it. This means that as long as the gas side of the valve is higher, gas will pass from the cylinder to the keg, but if the keg pressure is higher it will force the flapper closed and keep the beer out of your regulator. I can't tell from that pic if that is a check valve or not. Can you see through it? If you can, it's not a check valve. Try blowing into it. You should only be able to blow in one direction and not the other.
 
another question, if I'm suppose to keep the co2 tank off the keg, how am I suppose to pour? There isn't any pressure in the keg and no beer comes out when I press down on the cobra tap handle. Do I just have to wait for the co2 to come out of the beer and then pour whatever will come out? I want to be able to pour on Saturday evening when I have guests over.
 
I went through some of the same pressure issues you did at first. The easiest way for me is to hook up the keg, let it sit a week or so at serving pressure and it will carb up just right. At 10psi ill be fully carbed. up in 5 days. If you start moving the pressure up and down back alot the beer will get angry and wil be foamy. My second keg was 50% foam because i was constantly screwing with the pressure.
You need to get a line longer than a foot on there too. I bet the beer comes out of there like a rocket. There are some calculations on the length of line needed. Maybe someone will post... Id at least start with 5' or though just to guess.

Another thing, dont expect to figure it all out right away. Do some reading on here and also experiment. Try one method on one keg, another on the next and so on.

Good luck and cheers!
 
todd_k said:
another question, if I'm suppose to keep the co2 tank off the keg, how am I suppose to pour? There isn't any pressure in the keg and no beer comes out when I press down on the cobra tap handle. Do I just have to wait for the co2 to come out of the beer and then pour whatever will come out? I want to be able to pour on Saturday evening when I have guests over.

If there is no pressure in the keg how can you be overcarbed? Is that because you've just pulled your pressure release? If so, the pressure will rapidly increase as the CO2 comes out of solution. It will come out quicker at higher temperatures if you want to hurry it along.

Just to give you an idea, here's what happened to me this weekend. I put a finger tap on my keg for the Easter weekend so I could bring one around with me. I bought the tap the day before and I also bought some line. I had asked for 6 feet of 3/16 ID line but the guy had 8 feet left in the box. I didn't want to make him cut it and keep just 2 feet on hand so I bought all 8.

I had originally set my pressure to about 12 psi. That was fine when my brew was at basement temperatures (about 62F) but when I set it outside where it was much cooler, there wasn't enough carb. I upped the pressure to 16 psi and everything was fine. The trade off came when I had to bring it back in as the temps dropped further outside. I started getting rather foamy beer. It wasn't that big a deal because I just waited for the head to drop and quaffed away. I kept it at 16 psi because I knew that I'd likely be drinking on it while it was cold more often than warm.

Now that I've said all that, there's something else to consider. If you are using just one foot of hose, your problem may not be too much carb, but rather too much of a pressure differential at the pour. Beer foams when it experiences a rapid change in pressure. You want your keg to be carbed to the right level but have enough resistance in the hose so that it drops most of that pressure due to resistance. You want about 1 psi at the tap. There are charts that tell you how to balance your system but I just set an approximate pressure and then adjust based on results. If there is no pressure in your keg and you let it sit for awhile, I'll bet dollars to donuts that this is your problem.
 
If I read correctly, you are serving through one foot of tubing and a cobra tap? If so, that isn't nearly enough line length to balance your system. You will need at least 6' of 3/16" ID thick walled, smooth bore beverage tubing. Using a cobra tap will require even more line length than if you served through a draft faucet.
 
Fingers said:
If there is no pressure in the keg how can you be overcarbed? Is that because you've just pulled your pressure release? If so, the pressure will rapidly increase as the CO2 comes out of solution.

You told me yesterday not to have the co2 tank hooked up and to wait for the co2 to come out of the beer. I guess what I'm wondering is, when will I know when it's ready to hook the tank back up without risking beer in my regulator?
The 1 foot of beer line does make it shoot out pretty fast but at this time, that's all I have. I am going to try to go to the LHBS tomorrow to get a longer line.
 
When I overcarbed, I did this - I took the keg off of gas and shook up the keg. I unscrewed the gas disconnect from the gas line (yay for flare fittings) and used it to degas the beer. I held a pitcher to the opening of the disconnect and attached it to the keg and let off the pressure, using the pitcher to catch stray foam (you may get a lot, I did). I then repeated the process a few times, and hooked up back to the gas after rinsing the disconnect and attaching it back to the gas line. I let it sit a day to stabilize the pressure and it was fine after that.

You could just use the pressure release valve, but I had a lot of foam come out. It was cleaner to direct it via the disconnect into a pitcher rather than cleaning off the lid every time I pulled the ring for a few seconds.
 
todd_k said:
You told me yesterday not to have the co2 tank hooked up and to wait for the co2 to come out of the beer. I guess what I'm wondering is, when will I know when it's ready to hook the tank back up without risking beer in my regulator?
The 1 foot of beer line does make it shoot out pretty fast but at this time, that's all I have. I am going to try to go to the LHBS tomorrow to get a longer line.

That's right, Todd. Buford is saying essentially the same thing. If you have too much carbonation in your beer, you need to disconnect the tank and bleed off the pressure. It will usually come out in the form of foam. It will take several discharges to bleed off enough gas, depending on how overcarbed it is. Wait for the CO2 to come out of solution for a little while each time. I discharge the foam through my tap and into my glass. I've never had that serious an overcarb that a few slow glasses couldn't remedy.

If you don't get any foam coming out of your tap when you disconnect your gas, you aren't overcarbed, you're experiencing too high a pressure differential. The only correction for this is longer line. Is your line 3/16 diameter? You should get at least six feet of 3/16 thick walled tubing for your tap. Watch out for the opposite problem. If you've bled off all your gas because your hose is too short, (sounds like a mean thing to say to a man) you may not have any carbonation at all when you connect your longer hose. Do you know how to do a rapid force carbonation? Get your hose as early as possible tomorrow if you want to drink this stuff.

*edit * Guess I didn't answer your question. You can connect your gas if you cannot discharge your beer. That obviously means that the pressure in the tank is less than the pressure from your regulator. Otherwise, wait until your beer comes out in about 5 seconds to fill a pint glass without a lot of foam. You won't see a lot of bubble activity in your glass but you'll have a CO2 'bite' to the drink.
 
new problem.....the co2 tank is empty already???? I just hooked the damn thing up a few weeks ago. the gauge on the tank was always up around 1000 psi. I disconnected the keg today to convert the Sanyo (with the help of Flyin' Lion) and now that I hooked it back up, I get nothing! No pressure registering on the co2 tank gauge and no pressure registering on the keg gauge. I pulled the release valve on the top of the keg and there is pressure in the keg.
The tank did get tipped over once today while we maneuvered the fridge.
 
Unfortunately, it sounds like the regulator might have sprung a leak. My first regulator was plagued by leaks, if I bumped it against anything it would spring a new one.

Double check your regulator, it could just be slightly out of whack. It always sucks to have a CO2 tank drain out on you, I currently have two drained tanks thanks to a shoddy store bought manifold.
 

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