McCuckerson
Well-Known Member
I tasted my lager while transferring from primary to secondary and it had a plasticy-cr@ppy taste. Is this where the "lagering" comes in? or should it not taste like this at this point.
Lager tastes like cr@p
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Shouldn't taste much different from ale at this point (within reason). Are you familiar with the taste of diacetyl, which is one of the biggest off-flavours in a lager? If not, read the "Hold the Butter, Please" thread. Might be what you are experiencing.
OP
OP
McCuckerson
Well-Known Member
Diacetyl was my first instinct, but its more of a plastic taste, still could be diacetyl though. I am letting it rest in the secondary at 72f to do a quasi-dycetyl rest. Do you think that will help?
This is the reason that the term "Lager:" means "To store."
Lock it away in a cold dark place and let the magic happen. Your beer will be transformed.
It really is hard to judge a beer until it's been about 6 weeks in the bottle. Just because you taste (or smell) something in primary or secondary DOESN'T mean it will be there when the beer is fully conditioned (that's also the case with kegging too.)
The thing to remember though is that if you are smelling or tasting this during fermentation not to worry. During fermentation all manner of stinky stuff is given off (ask lager brewers about rotten egg/sulphur smells, or Apfelwein makers about "rhino farts,") like we often say, fermentation is often ugly AND stinky and PERFECTLY NORMAL.
It's really only down the line, AFTER the beer has been fermented (and often after it has bottle conditioned even,) that you concern yourself with any flavor issues if they are still there.
I think too many new brewers focus to much on this stuff too early in the beer's journey. And they panic unnecessarily.
A lot of the stuff you smell/taste initially more than likely ends up disappearing either during a long primary/primary & secondary combo, Diacetyl rests and even during bottle conditioning.
If I find a flavor/smell, I usually wait til it's been in the bottle 6 weeks before I try to "diagnose" what went wrong, that way I am sure the beer has passed any window of greenness.
Lagering is a prime example of this. Lager yeast are prone to the production of a lot of byproducts, the most familiar one is sulphur compounds (rhino farts) but in the dark cold of the lagering process, which is at the minimum of a month (I think many homebrewers don't lager long enough) the yeast slowly consumes all those compounds which results in extremely clean tasting beers if done skillfully.
Ales have their own version of this, but it's all the same. Time is your friend.
If you are sampling your beer before you have passed a 'window of greeness" which my experience is about 3-6 weeks in the bottle, then you are more than likely just experiencing an "off flavor" due to the presence of those byproducts (that's what we mean when we say the beer is "green" it's still young and unconditioned.) but once the process is done, over 90% of the time the flavors/smells are gone.
Of the remaining 10%, half of those may still be salvageable through the long time storage that I mention in the Never dump your beer!!! Patience IS a virtue!!! Time heals all things, even beer:
And the remaining 50% of the last 10% are where these tables and lists come into play. To understand what you did wrong, so you can avoid it in the future.
Long story short....I betcha that smell/flavor will be long gone when the beer is carbed and conditioned.
In other words, relax, your beer will be just fine, like 99.5%.
You can find more info on that in here;
Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning.
Just remember it will not be the same beer it is now, and you shouldn't stress what you are tasting right now.
Lock it away in a cold dark place and let the magic happen. Your beer will be transformed.
It really is hard to judge a beer until it's been about 6 weeks in the bottle. Just because you taste (or smell) something in primary or secondary DOESN'T mean it will be there when the beer is fully conditioned (that's also the case with kegging too.)
The thing to remember though is that if you are smelling or tasting this during fermentation not to worry. During fermentation all manner of stinky stuff is given off (ask lager brewers about rotten egg/sulphur smells, or Apfelwein makers about "rhino farts,") like we often say, fermentation is often ugly AND stinky and PERFECTLY NORMAL.
It's really only down the line, AFTER the beer has been fermented (and often after it has bottle conditioned even,) that you concern yourself with any flavor issues if they are still there.
I think too many new brewers focus to much on this stuff too early in the beer's journey. And they panic unnecessarily.
A lot of the stuff you smell/taste initially more than likely ends up disappearing either during a long primary/primary & secondary combo, Diacetyl rests and even during bottle conditioning.
If I find a flavor/smell, I usually wait til it's been in the bottle 6 weeks before I try to "diagnose" what went wrong, that way I am sure the beer has passed any window of greenness.
Lagering is a prime example of this. Lager yeast are prone to the production of a lot of byproducts, the most familiar one is sulphur compounds (rhino farts) but in the dark cold of the lagering process, which is at the minimum of a month (I think many homebrewers don't lager long enough) the yeast slowly consumes all those compounds which results in extremely clean tasting beers if done skillfully.
Ales have their own version of this, but it's all the same. Time is your friend.
If you are sampling your beer before you have passed a 'window of greeness" which my experience is about 3-6 weeks in the bottle, then you are more than likely just experiencing an "off flavor" due to the presence of those byproducts (that's what we mean when we say the beer is "green" it's still young and unconditioned.) but once the process is done, over 90% of the time the flavors/smells are gone.
Of the remaining 10%, half of those may still be salvageable through the long time storage that I mention in the Never dump your beer!!! Patience IS a virtue!!! Time heals all things, even beer:
And the remaining 50% of the last 10% are where these tables and lists come into play. To understand what you did wrong, so you can avoid it in the future.
Long story short....I betcha that smell/flavor will be long gone when the beer is carbed and conditioned.
In other words, relax, your beer will be just fine, like 99.5%.
You can find more info on that in here;
Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning.
Just remember it will not be the same beer it is now, and you shouldn't stress what you are tasting right now.
If it has a bad plastic-y taste now, lagering won't magically improve that. Lagering does smooth out and "crisp" up the flavors, having them meld nicely. But it won't take something that tastes like crap and make it into a nice beer.
Plastic-y off flavors tend to come from phenols or chlorophenols. Chlorine or chloramines in the water, stressed yeast, etc. I wonder if it's coming from someplace obvious like that.
Plastic-y off flavors tend to come from phenols or chlorophenols. Chlorine or chloramines in the water, stressed yeast, etc. I wonder if it's coming from someplace obvious like that.
My lagers taste reasonably clean after primary. I did have an ale with a similar off flavor. It will forever be know as Rubber hose blond. Aging had no impact on it's nastiness.
ghpeel
Well-Known Member
Its not a good sign, but give it time. Beer does very strange dips and twists in flavor during the first few weeks sometimes.
I personally love it when a hydro sample of a "finished" beer tastes nasty, and I get all depressed and write the beer off, only to discover that after another week or so its magically changed into something delicious.
I personally love it when a hydro sample of a "finished" beer tastes nasty, and I get all depressed and write the beer off, only to discover that after another week or so its magically changed into something delicious.
cheezydemon3
Well-Known Member
I am thinking bleach or cleanser in the beer.
I'm on the bleach bandwagon. Maybe the OP can respond with his cleaning process.
Also, there was a thread on here recently where the OP had this same problem for many batches in a row. He went through some significant effort to determine that it was the hose from which he got his water. He could even get the exact same taste just by drinking water straight from the hose (so, taste your water!). Changing the host to a potable water hose (white one) fixed problem.
Also, there was a thread on here recently where the OP had this same problem for many batches in a row. He went through some significant effort to determine that it was the hose from which he got his water. He could even get the exact same taste just by drinking water straight from the hose (so, taste your water!). Changing the host to a potable water hose (white one) fixed problem.
cheezydemon3
Well-Known Member
OP
OP
McCuckerson
Well-Known Member
Cleaning process is the same process I always follow: wash with beer bright, sanitize with starsan. This is my 33rd batch and I have never tasted this before...... I don't know why you say: "the OP had this same problem for many batches in a row". That wasn't me....
OP
OP
McCuckerson
Well-Known Member
OP meant the guy with the hose problem. Sorry for the confusion.
JZ says on a podcast that a certain hop he tasted in a beer from Australia had a phenolic plasticy taste. Went away after several wks in a keg. He seem certain it was the hop.
OP
OP
McCuckerson
Well-Known Member
Gotcha, I thought I was losin' it there for a minute, LOL! Regarding the hop post, I used nugget leaf, as a bitter hop only... could be.
OP
OP
McCuckerson
Well-Known Member
Well said as always Revvy! I will be updating this most in about 6 weeks saying: "false alarm, it turned out ok...."
OP
OP
McCuckerson
Well-Known Member
Happy to report that 24hrs at 72f has helped; it must be diacetyl. Anyway, I will let it go a few more days at room temp and then off to the fridge. Thanks everybody!
OP
OP
McCuckerson
Well-Known Member
Final Report: After the better part of 6 days at a balmy 72f, the off flavor is completely gone. It must have diacetyl?!?!? Nothing but sweet nectar and alcohol. Revvy, how do you have the patience for these ridiculous "is my beer ruined" posts?
mkirkland
Well-Known Member
I think i may have the same type of problem...I brewed my first batch of Octoberfest All grain and all was good....my effeciency was crap so it was something like OG 1.034 and FG 1.004 so not to malty as i wanted it to be...Tasted good out of the primary and tasted good out of the secondary....bottled it and let it rest for 1 week...Chilled it and it tasted like CRAP....same weird plasticy undescribable 'chemical' kind of taste. Not sure how to describe it. So its been in the bottle for 3-4 weeks now so i may try another bottle this weekend and see if its slowly fading that tste out of the beer...I hope so i dont want to trash it.
KeithMoonsLiver
Well-Known Member
Don't let him fool you, he loves nothing more than copy/pasting his little speil in every thread he can.
OP
OP
McCuckerson
Well-Known Member
Maybe let them go at room temp a bit longer. Those little yeasties are good a scavenging the nasties out.
OP
OP
McCuckerson
Well-Known Member
I am trying to win him over. I get the feeling he is mad at me.
cheezydemon3
Well-Known Member
It is a bit difficult for non-noobs on this site.
The learning curve from noob to....well, at least non noob, is pretty damned fast. So, for the most part people post things that are not too far off base.
Throw in there the reason most of us went looking for a brewing online community in the first place......."Am I Phucking up my beer?"
And add in a few other understandably alarming noob over-reactions, and you get a random peppering of threads and questions that sound eerily the same.
Enter Revvy, a good heart, a need to help, reasonably high intelect, and TONS of free time.
I have found myself giving the ol' "WHAT??? ANOTHER IS MY BEER INFECTED THREAD????!?!?" in my response to the white stuff threads, as I then proceed to try and help.
The contrast between Noobs, and people who have at least some idea of what is going on, is staggering.
The learning curve from noob to....well, at least non noob, is pretty damned fast. So, for the most part people post things that are not too far off base.
Throw in there the reason most of us went looking for a brewing online community in the first place......."Am I Phucking up my beer?"
And add in a few other understandably alarming noob over-reactions, and you get a random peppering of threads and questions that sound eerily the same.
Enter Revvy, a good heart, a need to help, reasonably high intelect, and TONS of free time.
I have found myself giving the ol' "WHAT??? ANOTHER IS MY BEER INFECTED THREAD????!?!?" in my response to the white stuff threads, as I then proceed to try and help.
The contrast between Noobs, and people who have at least some idea of what is going on, is staggering.
Glad it turned out like I knew it would.
Now for next time, you hopefully have more trust in all this stuff, and won't worry if something doesn't seem right. Because you have the proof for yourself. I just wish folks would read the 10,000 stories that turn out exactly the same way, on here, BEFORE they take their first tentative sip of a beer, or pitch thier yeast or whatever, and then when something "scary" happens, rather than keep worrying, OR even start a worry thread, they'd think, "whoah, I just read a bunch of threads EXACTLY about this, where the same answered was given, AND where the beer turned out OK....So gee, if all those beers turned out OK, why would I think MINE would be any different? So I might as well go grab a beer and try that rdw thing they tell each other on that site.
That's what I did when I stumbled into this place, I read everything that was posted, so rather than being freaked out when a yeast didn't start for 3 days, I went, "Oh I read that sticky about this" or when my airlock didn't bubble I said to myself "I read this on HBT" or "Oh this is what they mean by green beer, my beer's fine, it just needs more time."
It made this a much more enjoyable hobby. So to give back I do what I do. And I try to write something that gives as much info as possible including references. So, since 99.5% of the questions are the same ones over and over, rather than writing the same answer over and over, it's easier just to have that one, detailed, answer that hopefully can calm the nervous person down, and gives them a few facts along the way, or references to back it up.
cheezydemon3
Well-Known Member
In this age of instant gratification and iphone apps that save us from even having to type, so many of us don't want to research.
We want to type/speak our question and have jeeves or WhoeverTF give us the info we want, and that right fast. We don't CARE that the question has been answered 1.5 BILLION times already.
Kinda sad.
In a way though it is OK with me for the noob to raise a tired old question. What if there is new info?
It could happen.
We want to type/speak our question and have jeeves or WhoeverTF give us the info we want, and that right fast. We don't CARE that the question has been answered 1.5 BILLION times already.
Kinda sad.
In a way though it is OK with me for the noob to raise a tired old question. What if there is new info?
It could happen.
In a way though it is OK with me for the noob to raise a tired old question. What if there is new info?
It could happen.
I agree. I think it's great when that happens, we may joke about it, but when it happens and it's not a spammer or an accidental drunk post bump it is cool. I think that when that happens sometimes even the quality of the question has some more depth...it's like "Based on all this that I read, can you then help me understand XXXXX." It's not "oh my god what's this stuff on top of my fermenter?" It's more like "So what is exactly in this krausen I'm seeing here, and why the heck is it so ugly?" It forces us to step up to the next level of our learning in order to answer it. I'm always learning more stuff every day simply by searching for info to help answer a question.
For example there was a thread on here asking about beers in Romania, I didn't even know there were "Romanian beers" so I starting digging and I learn a bunch of stuff. WHich may give me some ideas for a beer of my own, if I come upon an ingredient or something I've never heard of.
OP
OP
McCuckerson
Well-Known Member
LOL! Oh thank you cheezy for coming down from the Great Council and slumming it with us mortal noob brewers........It is a bit difficult for non-noobs on this site....
The contrast between Noobs, and people who have at least some idea of what is going on, is staggering.
I actually have been brewing for over 3yrs and have over 60 batches under my belt. This was my first serious lager attempt and the off-flavor (or flavour for our fellow canadian brewers) was one that I never encountered before. I get you though; some of the repeat threads make you want to scream. In one regard though, I am very happy to see the hobby growing. Brew on my brother
