LME & DME difference with SRM but not gravity, what gives? - NOT a DME vs. LME thread

So I'm wondering something. Pretty much everything I've read says use 20% more LME to DME. So instead of 5lbs DME one would use 6lbs LME. All fine and dandy, but I've been wondering something. For one, I can't help but doubt LME is equivalently DME + 20% water. I would think adding 20% equivalent water to a 5lb DME mixture would give more of a clay kind of goop rather than a syrup. Then there's the Beersmith numbers below (all based on Briess DME and Briess LME from the imported Briess database into Beersmith):

Amber - 1.045 8.5SRM LME
Amber - 1.045 7.5SRM DME

Wheat - 1.045 4.4SRM LME
Wheat - 1.045 6.2SRM DME

Golden Light - 1.045 4.4SRM LME
Golden Light - 1.045 3.9SRM DME

So out of those the wheat DME is the only one that would come out darker using the suggested equivalent amount. Why is it the wheat would be darker and the other would be lighter? If we're talking about the amount of fermentables shouldn't they all come out pretty much the same when using the *1.2 for LME? What am I missing? Is Beersmith off?

Just a bit confused here. Any knowledge on this would definitely help straighten me out


Rev.

Rev2010 said:

So I'm wondering something. Pretty much everything I've read says use 20% more LME to DME. So instead of 5lbs DME one would use 6lbs LME. All fine and dandy, but I've been wondering something. For one, I can't help but doubt LME is equivalently DME + 20% water. I would think adding 20% equivalent water to a 5lb DME mixture would give more of a clay kind of goop rather than a syrup. Then there's the Beersmith numbers below:

Amber - 1.045 8.5SRM LME
Amber - 1.045 7.5SRM DME

Wheat - 1.045 4.4SRM LME
Wheat - 1.045 6.2SRM DME

Golden Light - 1.045 4.4SRM LME
Golden Light - 1.045 3.9SRM DME

So out of those the wheat DME is the only one that would come out darker using the suggested equivalent amount. Why is it the wheat would be darker and the other would be lighter? If we're talking about the amount of fermentables shouldn't they all come out pretty much the same when using the *1.2 for LME? What am I missing? Is Beersmith off?

Just a bit confused here. Any knowledge on this would definitely help straighten me out


Rev.

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The gravity differences are pretty trustworthy, and it is quite easy to test if you still doubt them. I don't have my numbers in front of me right now, but those sound about right.

The fact that the wheat DME is darker seems strange to me, though perhaps they were using different brands, etc. In general, though, LME will produce darker wort than DME due to some chemical aging processes that happen when storing LME. Old LME gets really dark.

Sorry, forgot to mention this is with all Briess DME and LME. I imported the Briess database into Beersmith. I've updated the original post. As far as the gravities, they are all the same, so there are no gravity differences.


Rev.

LME will darken over time, don`t know why but it does.

VB

Rev2010 said:

Sorry, forgot to mention this is with all Briess DME and LME. I imported the Briess database into Beersmith. I've updated the original post. As far as the gravities, they are all the same, so there are no gravity differences.


Rev.

Click to expand...

Right, not as you've presented them here. When I said that the gravity differences are trustworthy and easily testable, I meant that in response to your saying that you didn't believe the +20% guideline.

The wheat thing is weird, and not something I had noticed before, but now that I search for it I see a few other people describing the same thing. Otherwise, the darker color of LME is well documented; if you store the stuff warm, it will get even darker relatively quickly.