Anheuser Busch and their deceptive marketing

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I'm glad people like OP are passionate about beer, without people like him there would be no craft beer, no beer movement. Hell if we all loved light lager so much when why are we homebrewing everything but?

Light lager won Best of Show at 2102 NHC. The largest homebrew competition in the world, with the best judges in the world. Lots of people are brewing light lagers.

The reason I don't brew light lagers is because it's hard to do, and exceptional quality commercial versions of the style are readily available and pretty cheap. To get my light lager fix, I'm not gonna bother attempting to brew one.
 
I wouldn't be caught dead eating McD's but if you handed me a free bud I would drink the h@@@ out of it.. Difference is I love beer, but I'm not going to poison myself with some cr@ppy tasting burger or whatever. Would I buy bud.. no but I'm not going to turn a free one down.

OKAY. I think you missed my point.

And for the record if you handed me a free MCD burger I would eat the hell out of it, two if you had em.
 
OKAY. I think you missed my point.

And for the record if you handed me a free MCD burger I would eat the hell out of it, two if you had em.

I think you missed the point out of my post... bud might not be the best beer in the world but it is a consistant product that isn't going to kill you... Drinking a few buds a day is just as healthy as drinking a few any other beers a day... but if you eat that Poison they serve a McD's every day you will most likely suffer hardcore health problems within a few years if not sooner..

Bud might not be the beer of choice but it is what it is.. At least you never hear about getting a bad/disappointing case of bud if thats what you want, but I have bought cases of craft beer, specifically nugget nectar last year that were well below the quality I was used to/expecting
 
CityOChampBrew said:
I wouldn't be caught dead eating McD's but if you handed me a free bud I would drink the h@@@ out of it.. Difference is I love beer, but I'm not going to poison myself with some cr@ppy tasting burger or whatever. Would I buy bud.. no but I'm not going to turn a free one down.

Poison is poison, it's all about what poison you prefer at the moment
 
I think you missed the point out of my post... bud might not be the best beer in the world but it is a consistant product that isn't going to kill you... Drinking a few buds a day is just as healthy as drinking a few any other beers a day... but if you eat that Poison they serve a McD's every day you will most likely suffer hardcore health problems within a few years if not sooner..

Bud might not be the beer of choice but it is what it is.. At least you never hear about getting a bad/disappointing case of bud if thats what you want, but I have bought cases of craft beer, specifically nugget nectar last year that were well below the quality I was used to/expecting

You have more than proven my point: that what the masses consume the most isn't "the best." Beer or hamburgers or anything else.

Also, since we are going way off topic here your reasoning is flawed. You compare beer to beer, but compare burgers to... eating nothing. If you eat ANY MEAL in excess calories every day you will suffer health problems, half of America has already proven that...

Poison is poison, it's all about what poison you prefer at the moment

Yup, moderation is key, but we all die in the end.
 
You have more than proven my point: that what the masses consume the most isn't "the best." Beer or hamburgers or anything else.

Also, since we are going way off topic here your reasoning is flawed. You compare beer to beer, but compare burgers to... eating nothing. If you eat ANY MEAL in excess calories every day you will suffer health problems, half of America has already proven that...



Yup, moderation is key, but we all die in the end.

Thats not the point at all.. not all calories are equal, what McD's does to the food WILL kill you even if you eat a "normal caloric diet" Have you ever just left McD's food out without putting it in the refridge or wrapping it up... It doesn't decay... for years...
 
I'm not here to defend bud and their conglomerate but you are here acting as if they are the enemy forcing people to do everything AHB wants, yet they are providing a service that people want. Yes, they are after a profit and are delivering a very limited product to the massed, but the masses are gracefully accepting what they offer, their loss. If you don't like it you don't have to stick it to a salesman just trying to make a living; just drink his free beer and buy the good $hizzle
 
Black Crown is one of the Project 12 beers, right? Have you tried the sampler? They're pretty good. They have a vanilla oaked on in there that's pretty tasty. Actually all three of the winners were worth trying. It's actually nice to see AHB doing something geared more to us craft beer drinkers.

Some guys from my brew club had a "raid the cellar" beer tasting today. Vertical 2009->2012 Black Tuesday, vertical 2010-2012 Parabola, Cantillon gueuze, Sucuba, a 2006->2008 vertical of the Trader Joe's "Vintage Ale", and a few other choice bottles.

Partly as a joke (i.e. "I'm bringing something I'm pretty sure *none* of you have tasted!") and partly because I honestly wanted to try it, I brought Black Crown. The general response was along the lines of "yeah, it's pretty good, definitely a lot more flavor than standard Bud, and not a bad beer." (Interestingly, shortly thereafter a couple beer geeks who aren't homebrewers showed up, and acted all elitist about it. I thought it interesting that the brewers had a completely different take on it than the non-brewers.) Then we went back to the heavy hitters.

What was interesting is what happened when the guy who organized the event pulled out lunch. He cooks, so he made a nice spicy dry-rubbed pulled pork, cole slaw, and from-scratch rolls. Nice spread. You know what question I got?

"Hey Brad, where's the rest of that Black Crown?"

It paired perfectly with lunch. Far better than cracking a bottle of Black Tuesday!

It's a good beer. It's not as flavorful as much of what I drink on a daily basis, so it's something that would be more likely for me to drink at an airport bar than actually buy more of for home, but it's still a good beer.

I posted up a quick review on Google+ today:

I've actually been wanting to try this for a bit. I'd heard good reviews from people whose opinion I trust on beer, and I try not to be a hater and let the source poison my opinion.

This isn't an exciting beer. But much like Bud's [now-defunct] American Ale, it's very well executed and it's a technically solid offering. And, in my opinion, it's a cut above their usual offerings, flavor-wise. There's an actual malt presence!

When evaluating beers like this, there are better craft lagers available and I generally look for more flavor in the store. So the question is where this falls in my "macro-lager airport beer" list. I'd probably take this over a Stella or a Boston Lager. It would fall behind something like an Amber Bock (which aren't common in airports anyway). So if Bud starts pushing this out to a lot of tap handles, I might have it again. If it remains a store shelf beer, not so much.
 
I'm going to a beer tasting next saturday and from this thread alone I may just buy a 6er of this beer and take the time to remove any labels from that beer just to see what happens. if it's possible to remove anything that identifies it
 
Wow. This guy's really heated.

InBev makes what people want. Supply and demand. If people wanted chocolate stouts, then budweiser would make chocolate stouts.

People want light American lagers. If you can convince everyone in America to like double IPAs, then Budweiser will probably start making double IPAs.

It starts at the homebrew level.
 
OK, First post guys. I'm with the OP, screw the big time 40,000 gallons @ a time spend millions in ad space brewers. I support with my dollars only breweries I would want to visit because their beer is that good, & I could drive there in a day more or less. I am lucky enough to live in the Great NorthWest and can drive to hundreds of breweries and beer pubs and craft breweries. Plenty'o'brewhaus here in town too.
 
I too believe the market dictates what people are drinking. All of the grocery/liquor/pharmacy's I go to are about 50/50 in offering commercial and "craft". Obviously, the BMC's are pulling more market share. They got big by providing exactly what people want. In general, I believe (presently( that the majority of people on this earth want a light, affordable buzz and to a good portion of them, they want to be acceptable to their peer group and are also likely to follow a certain familial or regional tradition. That is Bud, becks, PBR, rolling rock, sapporo, labatts blue, san miguel, heineken, corona, singha etc. These beers offer mostly what you would call, "refreshment". Refreshment is important in beer drinking, because, as Revvy stated earlier, we have already moved from requiring beer to fortify or nourish us, to save excess grain crops, etc.. We have our calories in our abundant food supply already.

I love craft beer. I love a good cold lawnmower beer from any of the above listed "BMC" style beers as well. Conversely, I hate drinking a big heavy beer after a large heavy meal, or on a particularly hot day. There is a time and place for everything.

Example: You can't expect the average Joe to reach for a berliner weisse as an after meal digestif because they are hard to find, hard to pronounce and if though unlikely he was a homebrewer, somewhat tricky to brew correctly, even with the right equipment and yeast strains/bacterias not to mention time consuming to ferment completely. No beer would do it better in my opinion, yet I, a not so average "beer Joe" could not find a single berliner weisse to drink, and I am within 5 miles of three extraordinarily "well stocked in beer" liquor type stores.
 
I find it interesting how a chain of grocery stores in my area caters to the demands of the different communities they serve. My grocery store has a wide selection of beer with half or more being craft, micro, private, independent, or whatever you prefer to call it. This includes a good selection of locally made beer as well. The remainder of the beer are different varieties owned by or associated with SABMiller and AB-InBev, which they put further back and away from the high flow of traffic, so you don't even have to see those brands if you don't want to.

Now, if you drive a few miles down the road to a different community and visit that location of the same grocery store, you'll find, up front and center for all shoppers to see, that half the beer selection is Bud Light. The other half is divided up between Budweiser, Coors, Miller, a handful of their craft cousins, and maybe a New Belgium Fat Tire or SNPA.

Point being, around these parts, we the community decide what's popular and what's not. Sure, you have distributors promoting, store managers deciding what goes into inventory, and all other behind the scenes things that go on, but ultimately the consumers decide what they want to buy and not buy. If my grocery store doesn't have beer that I find interesting, I just walk over to the liquor store next door, politely smile at the promo girl giving out samples, say no thank you, and head to their beer section.
 
I'm not sure how accurate the analogy will be, but let's examine an industry in which we have less emotion invested: bread.

(admittedly, my research was brief, and my knowledge of the baking industry is quite limited)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grupo_Bimbo

Grupo Bimbo (best name ever) is the world's largest baking company. In the US, they own Arnold, Boboli, Entenmann's, Friehofer's, Mrs Baird's, Orowheat, Stroehmann's, and Thomas (and perhaps others). They own many other brands throughout the world. It appears that they are the InBev/Anheuser Busch of the baking industry. If I go to the grocery store for a loaf of bread, I'm quite likely to walk out with a Grupo Bimbo brand product. It's likely to be inexpensive, taste decent (and consistent), and suit the bulk of my sandwich-making desires. However, I can still go to a local bakery and grab an artisan loaf anytime I want. In fact, it's not even very expensive to buy something a little more unique and/or tastier. It doesn't appear that Grupo Bimbo is putting local bakers or grocery store brands out of business, despite what appears to be a stranglehold on big baking industry. If anything, most people I know are more inclined to blame big discount stores like Walmart for threatening local businesses, rather than their suppliers. Even so, I can still get a locally baked loaf of bread in nearly any town I've ever visited.

I don't hate Grupo Bimbo. They make bread, most of which is inexpensive - which is convenient because I eat bread, and I don't want to pay much for it. Sometimes I eat better bread and pay a little extra for it. Sometimes I even make bread. My needs and desires are satisfied, and I don't feel like any of them are particularly threatened by capitalism.
 
Revvy said:
...
So, from where I'm looking, where I can buy more craft beers, and attend beer tastings everyweek in my local pharmacy I find those "beerwars" arguments about how much power the "evil empire" has over beer distribution anymore about as believable as most 9-11 conspiracies.

This is a DRUGSTORE, where I buy my condoms and heart medication, not one of the dozen beer stores in a mile radious from there that have great beer selections, this is my PHARMACY.....They have three "Beer experts" on staff.

Here's a list....

You might notice they list 8 BMC type beers, and 70 craft, micros, imported, ciders, and meads.
...

I just stumbled across this place last week in my search for Black Note. Amazing selection but alas no Black Note left.
 
I don't drink Budweiser simply because I don't like it, I don't care for very many beers with rice adjunct, and that is the only reason, am I impressed with their beer? Absolutely, you go try to make a batch. Better yet make millions, all identical, crystal clear, perfectly balanced... get my point?

The new stuff Budweiser is doing with project 12 is exciting, what that is going to do is help bridge the gap, get more people to try craft style beers. They will see the Budweiser logo and think well yup I like me some yellow beer. Crack them open and fall in love with the depth and the craftsmanship, maybe even turning them on to the smaller companies in the long run. If in bev wants to take over the craft market they are certainly going about it the wrong way. They could easily flood the market with brands wash out all of the little guys. They haven't. Yes they have done market research through their craft brands, but have you noticed an influx of shock top? Blue moon? No. The production levels have stayed much the same.

They may not even take any more of the market share with project 12. People who drink BMC now will buy it to try it. Craft drinkers will always be such, sure we will buy it to try it as well, and pick up the occasional 6er or more. But how often do most of us drink the same beer over and over? I know as a home brewer that I like variety in my beer. Victory hop devil today, dfh tomorrow. Variety is the spice of life. BMC are finally offering variety.
 
Well to say that Bud makes what people want is true but by spending millions on ads to help dictate "What people want" kinda construes the argument. People by Bud because they are told to, much like millions of other non beer mass marketed products.
Although I hate En-Bev not only for there beer but because they fired my plant manager uncle when they took over to give his long time job to a younger cheaper employee. I would still drink one if it was free and there were nothin better around. Another way to look at it is that En-Bev is helping the craft beer market by exposing the BMC loyals to new styles that would not normally been trusted from some Craft brewery they never heard of. In turn they might just try that style from a Craft brewery next time.
 
People by Bud because they are told to, much like millions of other non beer mass marketed products..

I always love this argument. People don't part with their hard earned money because they're told to, I sure as hell don't. People spend their money on what they WANT to, it's that simple. There's no one holding a gun to anyone's head. Be it a hand crafted product or "mass marketed product." It ultimately comes down to what the person wants.

That's what beersnobs can't seem to grasp, or are unwilling admit. People buy BMC because it fits the niche about what most people want to consume on a regular basis. They want a thirst quenching, not too filling, and not too complex, or bitter, or hoppy or whatever. They want a quaffer.

There has been a steady increase in the amount of alternatives to that style since about 1984, going from one of two beers in high end stores, to craft beers having a prominent niche in even the biggest of big box stores, and yet, the majority of people STILL choose those beers. It's that simple.

BMC doesn't really care WHAT style of beer the world drinks predominance, ONLY that the beer they make is at the top of the list. Like many of us have said, if Double IPAs were what the majority of folks wanted, then BMC would be the top double IPA brewer in the world, because they know how to make and sell beer. And the typical beersnob would be complaining and slamming double ipas. Or if Stone were at the top of the heap folks would be complaining about them.

It's economics 101...the CONSUMER dictates what it wants to spend it's money on, and business scrambles to be the top of the chain of providing that.

The biggest thing is that folks seem to have glommed on to some notion that the craft brewer is some how "pure" and anyone making money is somehow "evil." Even the craft breweries that have some how managed to be successful, get snobbed, I mean snubbed by some folks as well. There's some almost naive notion, and I think it has to do with how people becomes zealots when introduced to something new, be it craft beer or religion, to put whatever it is on a pedestal, that they are somehow more "noble" or something than anyone else. That somehow they're more "pure," than the established. Then when you realize that even the little guy is in it for the money, and does "business" just like the big guys and maybe even becomes a "big guy" then they've sold out or gone commercial or something.

Like Yuri pointed out, we don't get really amped up because the bakery industry or the automotive industry or the shoe industry does exactly the same thing- which is simply exercise their right to capitalism, trying to make money, and be number 1.....But for some reason we don't allow breweries to do the same thing every other industry does...compete or make money.
 
I like Randy Mosher's definition of craft beer in America, from Radical Brewing:
If a homebrewer (current or former) gets to decide what the beer tastes like, it's craft beer

that defines it better and more succinctly than the BA's convoluted, long-winded "craft vs crafty" definition

the brewers at AB/InBev can make craft beer, Bud Light just ain't one of them.

I would try one of their Project 12 beers, if offered.

I laugh like a loon at the Rage Against the Machine types.
 
In fact I've been trying to find the Budweiser Brew Masters series that we've been talking about in other threads, and I JUST CAN'T FIND IT ANYWHERE.....I can find any craft, imported and micro beer that are distributed in my state, especially those brewed in Michigan easier than I can find the Budweiser product.

Skip on down to Toledo. We have it in Kroger. I've yet to try it, but I've seen it. Not a high quantity, though, so they might be rotating out.

And for the record, to anyone who cares, the biggest problem I have with BMC is not the company or even the beers, but their target demographic and advertising campaign. "Hey sporty collegey jock dude, why enjoy a beer when you can just get drunk on ours?" But w/e. More craft left over for me.
 
If i love something for what it is why is that my problem that you dont like it? Your looking at this "AB crap" all wrong. Like others have said, AB reported a LOSS last year and craft sales have risen to over 10%. How there taking over makes no sense. They control the market because of there size, wait for DFH, Stone, Sierra, Rogue to get that big and see how sales are effected.
Stop being so ignorant and realize that your idealistic mind is not what controls others actions.

Do you go to the deli and order the same sandwich? Why, because you enjoy it and know it tastes amazing. Dont knock others for eating the liverwurst
 
I don't see how the big conglomerates buying the smaller brewers and then selling their beer nationwide hurts craft beer. if they keep the recipes the same, at any rate. There have been some where they have bought them then changed the recipe and turned it into another mass market light lager. But in recent years I have seen that less often. mostly they just buy the brand then sell it in more stores. yes, they do this solely to make money and not for any type of benevolence and wanting to spread beer harmony to all, but they are after all, a corporation. all corporations are trying to increase sales. Back in the 60's the big brewers bought up all the small ones and then got rid of them completely, and just used the brewery they bought to make more of thier own product. at least that isn't happening now. maybe who you should be mad at is the small brewer that gets bought. if they had refused to sell, then BMC wouldn't own them. of course then a lot of them would have gone out of business because they don't have the selling power of a huge company.
and as has been pointed out, being the biggest brewery doesn't make you immune to getting bought either. Look at Anhieser Bush and Miller. If they were so in control of the beer market and were so evilly buying everyone else to then ruin them, how did they get bought? its all a business, and it has nothing to do with evil. Just what makes money.
 
Revvy said:
I always love this argument. People don't part with their hard earned money because they're told to, I sure as hell don't. People spend their money on what they WANT to, it's that simple. There's no one holding a gun to anyone's head. Be it a hand crafted product or "mass marketed product." It ultimately comes down to what the person wants.

That's what beersnobs can't seem to grasp, or are unwilling admit. People buy BMC because it fits the niche about what most people want to consume on a regular basis. They want a thirst quenching, not too filling, and not too complex, or bitter, or hoppy or whatever. They want a quaffer.

There has been a steady increase in the amount of alternatives to that style since about 1984, going from one of two beers in high end stores, to craft beers having a prominent niche in even the biggest of big box stores, and yet, the majority of people STILL choose those beers. It's that simple.

BMC doesn't really care WHAT style of beer the world drinks predominance, ONLY that the beer they make is at the top of the list. Like many of us have said, if Double IPAs were what the majority of folks wanted, then BMC would be the top double IPA brewer in the world, because they know how to make and sell beer. And the typical beersnob would be complaining and slamming double ipas. Or if Stone were at the top of the heap folks would be complaining about them.

It's economics 101...the CONSUMER dictates what it wants to spend it's money on, and business scrambles to be the top of the chain of providing that.

The biggest thing is that folks seem to have glommed on to some notion that the craft brewer is some how "pure" and anyone making money is somehow "evil." Even the craft breweries that have some how managed to be successful, get snobbed, I mean snubbed by some folks as well. There's some almost naive notion, and I think it has to do with how people becomes zealots when introduced to something new, be it craft beer or religion, to put whatever it is on a pedestal, that they are somehow more "noble" or something than anyone else. That somehow they're more "pure," than the established. Then when you realize that even the little guy is in it for the money, and does "business" just like the big guys and maybe even becomes a "big guy" then they've sold out or gone commercial or something.

Like Yuri pointed out, we don't get really amped up because the bakery industry or the automotive industry or the shoe industry does exactly the same thing- which is simply exercise their right to capitalism, trying to make money, and be number 1.....But for some reason we don't allow breweries to do the same thing every other industry does...compete or make money.

You missed the point. Being "told to" definitely plays a big role in buying habits. If rogue and stone were on every other commercial and every other BIL board there would definitely be more of it being bought. You mention Nike. Perfect example. You think people buy Nike cause there better shoes? No they buy them because of their mass marketing. Labraun James wears them so they must be good. I'm not a beer snob at all and enjoy light lagers. But don't tell us that people but BMC cause they searched out and found the product they like. Taste has nothing to do with it. Lack there of yes.
 
Stevo

At least in the market I am in I rarely see a ad for BMC yet over and over all I get are micro ads for Sam Adams and such.

The only BMC that I had that tasted bad was a coors that I found as a kid swimming in the canal. Who knows how long it had been floating but typical kids we drank it. Man that thing was nasty and we had to go and swipe a couple of beers from my buddies dad to get the flavor out of our mouths.

Grand Teton Brewing is a micro not far from here that for the most part their beers are just great. Good group of guys who are always willing to help me out with yeast and such but when I needed a ton of bottles for my first batch they charged me for them. Yup greedy b@asterds are in it just for the money and I do not blame them.
 
You missed the point. Being "told to" definitely plays a big role in buying habits. If rogue and stone were on every other commercial and every other BIL board there would definitely be more of it being bought. You mention Nike. Perfect example. You think people buy Nike cause there better shoes? No they buy them because of their mass marketing. Labraun James wears them so they must be good. I'm not a beer snob at all and enjoy light lagers. But don't tell us that people but BMC cause they searched out and found the product they like. Taste has nothing to do with it. Lack there of yes.


Actually I buy Nike, because in general I like their style better than UA, Puma, etc. And yes, on average I do think they are a better product.

Not everyone you think is a sheeple actually is!
 
You missed the point. Being "told to" definitely plays a big role in buying habits. If rogue and stone were on every other commercial and every other BIL board there would definitely be more of it being bought. You mention Nike. Perfect example. You think people buy Nike cause there better shoes? No they buy them because of their mass marketing. Labraun James wears them so they must be good. I'm not a beer snob at all and enjoy light lagers. But don't tell us that people but BMC cause they searched out and found the product they like. Taste has nothing to do with it. Lack there of yes.

It does, but I don't usually buy nikes either. I sometimes buy them, but in general I wear vibrams for 90% of what I wear.
 
I'm still curious how long the OP has been a craft drinker and what his drinking habits were before.

And I fully agree with whomever said something about BMC helping to bridge the gap from cheap beer to quality beer.
 
So it may seem like i'm being a d!ck to BMC, but i don't care about Canada or Belgium's profit, and certainly not for a substandard product.

So all the workers at the plants in the US are flown to and from their home countries before and after each shift?
 
Well to say that Bud makes what people want is true but by spending millions on ads to help dictate "What people want" kinda construes the argument. People by Bud because they are told to, much like millions of other non beer mass marketed products.


These ads aren't targeted at the typical microbrew drinker beer snob, they're targeted at the Coors Light drinker to sway them to the Bud Light side.
 
I drink and like Miller Genuine Draft in a can, mostly because I drink most beer when at the beach in Texas. We cannot have glass containers there at all so that rules out my homebrew which I bottle. I also make and drink homebrew almost everyday. I love the hobby and it has taught me an appreciation for beer that I didn't have before.
I agree with others, the OP fails to realize that the craft beer movement has forced BMC to make some changes and offer different tastes and a "better" product. Their other tasteless products are still their bread and butter but they have had to step back and take a look at the market. Market share always drives the product, causing them to, in essence, take an "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" attitude. The more people who buy and enjoy even their version of craft brew, the more people who see that beer can actually have flavor other that the weak stuff we have come to expect from BMC. It's a no lose situation for the beer drinkers in the USA.:tank:
 
Just because you don't like a company or their particular product isn't an excuse to be a dick to the sales guy in the beverage store. It is one thing to be knowledgeable about beer and the multitude of styles out there, but you're coming across as pretentious and condescending and that's what I hate most about the self-described "beer connoisseurs". No one is forcing people to drink BMC products and while some of their business practices are not exactly ethical, they're also not doing anything illegal.
 
I have read/posted up to many of these threads and I feel like I am beating a dead horse at this point.

I hate BMC and 1/2-BMC products. I refuse to buy or drink ANY of it, even if it is free. It has nothing to do with any movie, HBT members, how it tastes or ANYTHING that was told to me. I am big boy and can make up my own opinions without any outside influence. What I do not get is the D-bag attitude towards people that do like BMC.

Why try to seem above people? A simple "No thank you." or "I do not like that." is more than sufficient. I understand that this is a beer topic on a beer forum which is why I can be more vocal and outspoken here about the topic but to actually be a D-bag about it to other people is silly and makes you look bad. I openly avoid discussing my views on BMC off these boards, unless I am really forced to explain myself. I have LOTS of friends that drink BMC and offer me some. Some of these friends really do not like ANY craft beer or homebrew and I still offer to them out of civility and I view an offer by them on the same level.
 
I have read/posted up to many of these threads and I feel like I am beating a dead horse at this point.
How could we really put this horse to good use? Temp control, Han Solo style?

Hmm. Maybe we should just steal the horse's kegs and cut them up, all the while talking smack about how crappy the horse was.
 
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