Answer me this....

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jdd120

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So I use the Star San. If it kills on contact (basically)....when you use it to sanitize and there is foam leftover, how come that doesn't kill stuff in your beer?

Jus' askin'
 
What stuff? If you have bacteria in your beer, I guess it would kill it. It's a sanitizer, so it would kill germs and bacteria making surfaces like 99% germ free. (I don't know about the 99%, I just made that figure up, as a guess).

You shouldn't have anything in your beer that needs killing, is my thought!
 
My understanding of the basics is that it's a question of PH and that the acidic PH of Starsan kills the bacteria but doesn't harm your yeast or beer...essentially it's phosphates and soap with your yeast can dine on the phosphates.

Look for the Better brewing network interview with Charlie Talley where he explains it in detail.
 
jdd120 said:
So I use the Star San. If it kills on contact (basically)....when you use it to sanitize and there is foam leftover, how come that doesn't kill stuff in your beer?

Jus' askin'

The foam gets diluted quickly when you add beer or wort or whatever. Diluted star san doesn't work as a sanitizer. It actually turns into food for the yeast.
 
That's a good interview. Basically, when starsan in the proper concentration touches your equipment, it kills bacteria/fungus/etc. When you add your wort to that small amount of foam/residue and dilute the starsan, it is no longer dangerous. Common sense tells me that starsan foam will kill your yeast if in direct contact....but most of the yeast sinks into the wort itself, not on the top where the foam sits.
 
ScubaSteve said:
Common sense tells me that starsan foam will kill your yeast if in direct contact....
Actually, it shouldn't - yeast are quite tolerant of acidic solutions. One of the methods for effectively washing yeast is to put it in an acidic solution around PH 2 (which is more acidic than properly mixed starsan solution) which will kill bacteria in the solution and help clear out any other undesirable trub/junk.
http://oz.craftbrewer.org/Library/Methods/Hayes/YeastWash.shtml
 
for starters, you pour out the solution, so there's not enough left to harm yeast once you further dilute it by pouring in the wort.

plus the acidic nature is favored by yeast, and any residue breaks down into phosphates that the yeast can use for food.
 
Hmm...I thought it might destroy the cell walls. Guess I was wrong :)
 
In that really long radio interview with the inventor of star san, he gets asked about a batch where one of the hosts forgot to dump a gallon of star san before pouring in his cooled wort.
the inventor said he could've pitched the yeast, adn the beer would've been safe to drink. probably a little off tasting though. star san apparently tastes a lot like Coke syrup only concentrated.
 
Thank God I once raised Tropical fish for resale...and am familiar with pH. If I had not done that I might be temped to believe some of the stuff that has been shared in this thread. Both by the posters and the manufactures/suppliers.

This thread has scared the sh-t out of me...as far as using Star San is concerned... I will continue to use bleach and rinse well.

I will leave it at that...as I am not interested in explaining anything further.:mug:
 
Mr Nick said:
Thank God I once raised Tropical fish for resale...and am familiar with pH. If I had not done that I might be temped to believe some of the stuff that has been shared in this thread. Both by the posters and the manufactures/suppliers.

This thread has scared the sh-t out of me...as far as using Star San is concerned... I will continue to use bleach and rinse well.

I will leave it at that...as I am not interested in explaining anything further.:mug:

Um... okay, Mr. Nick... I probably speak on behalf of many viewing this thread when I say that a further explanation would be appreciated. Until then, I'm willing to believe that the others on this thread are pretty knowledgeable on the subject, considering yeast are not tropical fish but fungal microorganisms, which have completely different tolerance for low pH levels. Though I would be interested to hear your take on the issue.
 
Lot's of peeps here know about pH. I personally have worked in a water treatment lab for large boilers monitoring many variables including pH. I also calibrate and maintain said instruments. But so what? If you're not interested in explaining any further, your statement isn't really worth much. Maybe you should check the pH of that bleach you are using...
 
Mr Nick said:
Thank God I once raised Tropical fish for resale...and am familiar with pH. If I had not done that I might be temped to believe some of the stuff that has been shared in this thread. Both by the posters and the manufactures/suppliers.

This thread has scared the sh-t out of me...as far as using Star San is concerned... I will continue to use bleach and rinse well.

I will leave it at that...as I am not interested in explaining anything further.:mug:

Sure...throwing down some condescending comments and refusing to explain or offer corrections to misconceptions is a better route to take ;)

I you know more/better, it would be nice to share.
 
YooperBrew said:
What stuff? If you have bacteria in your beer, I guess it would kill it. It's a sanitizer, so it would kill germs and bacteria making surfaces like 99% germ free. (I don't know about the 99%, I just made that figure up, as a guess).

You shouldn't have anything in your beer that needs killing, is my thought!



Yeast is pretty important "stuff" that could get killed by a sanitizer. I think that's what he was getting at. But when those bubbles are diluted into 5 gallons of wort, it's probably not a worry.:)


Though I must say, I don't use Star-San, cuz the bubbles drive me batty. Yeah, I know, that's a short drive........
 
Bernie Brewer said:
Yeast is pretty important "stuff" that could get killed by a sanitizer. I think that's what he was getting at. But when those bubbles are diluted into 5 gallons of wort, it's probably not a worry.:)


Though I must say, I don't use Star-San, cuz the bubbles drive me batty. Yeah, I know, that's a short drive........

Ahh, I see. I'm sorry that my response seems so crabby, then. I wasn't thinking about the yeast. I was replying to "stuff". There shouldn't be any pathogens in the beer, and that's what I was thinking about.

Sure, in theory, I guess your yeast could be killed but I would imagine not. I never thought of yeast as a microbe. I'm definitely not an expert on chemistry and microbes.
 
brewt00l said:
Sure...throwing down some condescending comments and refusing to explain or offer corrections to misconceptions is a better route to take ;)

I you know more/better, it would be nice to share.

There is so much stuff presented on boards like this...some of it is helpful...some is not. It is the job of the researcher to separate the wheat from the chaff. The researcher is the likes of people like you and me.

It is a few years now since I researched this issue. If I were to get any deeper into this, I would have to go back and relocate the information that led to my opinion. Quite frankly I don't have the time for that at this stage in my life. But if it is a concern to you...Please feel free to go there on your own. Better yet I would not want you to take my word for it...much more important that you form your own opinion...based on information from more knowledgeable people than I am.

If making an "I" statement is seen as throwing down some condescending comments...Then so be it. I do not see that as my problem.

Cheers.
 
It would be very productive of you and others would appreciate it, I'm sure, if you could at least say why an acidic sanitizer frightens you and point us in a direction that we could do our own research.
 
mr x said:
Maybe you should check the pH of that bleach you are using...
Representative pH values Substance pH
Hydrochloric acid, 10M
-1.0
Lead-acid battery
0.5
Gastric acid
1.5 – 2.0
Lemon juice
2.4
Cola
2.5
Vinegar
2.9
Orange or apple juice
3.5
Tomato Juice
4.0
Beer
4.5
Acid Rain
<5.0
Coffee
5.0
Tea or healthy skin
5.5
Urine
6.0
Milk
6.5
Pure Water
7.0
Healthy human saliva
6.5 – 7.4
Blood
7.34 – 7.45
Seawater
7.7 – 8.3
Hand soap
9.0 – 10.0
Household ammonia
11.5
Bleach
12.5

Household lye
13.5
 
Mr Nick said:
There is so much stuff presented on boards like this...some of it is helpful...some is not. It is the job of the researcher to separate the wheat from the chaff. The researcher is the likes of people like you and me.

It is a few years now since I researched this issue. If I were to get any deeper into this, I would have to go back and relocate the information that led to my opinion. Quite frankly I don't have the time for that at this stage in my life. But if it is a concern to you...Please feel free to go there on your own. Better yet I would not want you to take my word for it...much more important that you form your own opinion...based on information from more knowledgeable people than I am.

If making an "I" statement is seen as throwing down some condescending comments...Then so be it. I do not see that as my problem.

Cheers.


That's ok..you can just say, "I don't remember" :D

Just figured that if you knew, an online forum for sharing information and opinion would be as good a place as any to disclose that info... Guess I will have to look further into this when time permits.
 
Mr Nick said:
Bleach
12.5
Exactly. Why would something having a heavy caustic pH not concern you as much as something having a strong acid presence? You can rinse the bleach all you want, I'll take the StarSan over bleach any day. StarSan would need to have an outrageous molarity to affect the pH of 6 gallons of wort. Ain't gonna happen when used as directed.
 
As I said
Mr Nick said:
much more important that you form your own opinion...based on information from more knowledgeable people than I am.

Other than that all you need to know is that...I will take responsibility for my decisions...and allow you take responsibility for yours.

Cheers.
 
I believe healthy yeast slurry is acidic in nature, plus less desirable living contaminants won't survive in an acidic environment. Chlorine dioxide can also be used to wash yeast and it seems to work for breweries that choose to do it. I may try this some time for fun (I run a chlorine dioxide generator) and see what happens.
 

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