Why not Dilute strong beer to make MORE beer?

I've been toying with the idea of producing a really heavy beer, with the OG in the neighborhood of 1.090 - 1.100, and then diluting it down about 50% with boiled, cooled water. I have no real desire to DRINK anything above 6%ABV, but it would be nice to get 10 gallons out of a 5 gallon batch.

Is this how the commercial breweries work? Do they make strong beer and then dilute it to the desired ABV concentration at bottling?

Is there any reason NOT to do this? I was concerned about hop utilization in this scenario, assuming that it would take twice as much hops to get the same bitterness value. Do you think hops would dilute in the same way as the alcohol content?

thanks for your input

It's a question of when you do the dilution. If you do it prior to pitching yeast, you're just doing a partial boil. A lot of people do that.

If you do it after fermentation (at bottling), I believe you need to take some special measures to make sure it blends properly, lest it taste watery.

And I do believe Anheuser Busch does brew strong wort and dilutes it.

Extract brewers do this when they 'top off'. Give it a try but you may find that your beer just tastes watered down. If doing all grain your efficiency suffers with bigger beers so you lose something there.

If you want to do that, it's ok. Many people (especially those who do extract beers) do what you suggest, by making a smaller boil and then topping up with water. You'll get lower hops utilization from the extra amount of break material in the wort, so you'll need to use more hops than you normally would in the 10 gallon version.

In my system, it's just as easy to make 10 gallons as it is 5 so if I want 10 gallons, I make 10 gallons. If you have a mash tun big enough for a 1.100 wort in 5 gallons, you have a MLT big enough for 10 gallon batches. Or is your boil kettle too small to just do it the "regular" way?

But why? I'm pretty lazy. Stonger beer means fewer hoists of the mug, less swallowing, fewer trips to the head to pee. So I am adverse to the idea of thinning mine down.

I'm not in this for the exercise.

MarzBock said:

I've been toying with the idea of producing a really heavy beer...and then diluting it down about 50% with boiled, cooled water...would be nice to get 10 gallons out of a 5 gallon batch.

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+1 on McGarnigle's observation that it probably depends on when you do it. For some reason, your wording seems to indicated you would brew and ferment 5 gallons, then add water at bottling or kegging to get a more dilute brew. Indeed, I would think you'd have problem getting it evenly mixed since our yeast friends in fermentation are the ones really responsible for mixing up the components in the beer. If you're talking about doing a full 5 gallon boil of something really heavy, then diluting that wort into two carboys, I don't see why that wouldn't work as long as the gravities in each carboy measured something reasonable. I don't know enough to speak for what it will do to all the hops, etc. Probably not much as long as you increase the hops you use proportionally to the malt. It essentially sounds like you could do a partial boil on a 10 gallon batch -- people brew everything in 2.5 gallons for a 5-gallon batch all the time, then top off when it goes in the fermenter.

I think the OP is talking about adding the water post fermentation.

Yeah you can do that. Several of the big brewers BMC do the same thing to maximize the yield from their fermenters. But remember it will cut the flavor in half the same way it cuts the alcohol. So you'd need to adjust your recipes to suite IE: double hops, double malt flavors, etc... Good Luck!

I got tired of brewing 10-gallon batches of session beers (like the Cream of Three Crops) every 30-45 days so I decided to scale up the concentration...rack to three fermenters and top off with water for 15 gallons post boil/pre-fermentation.

Of course...I just drank more an I'm still brewing every 30-45 days.

McGarnigle said:

And I do believe Anheuser Busch does brew strong wort and dilutes it.

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I thought it was Bud Light that they brew and ferment at slighty higher gravity and then dilute. It seems be something more for light beer inorder to get more flavor. I also think Papazian covered it in his first or 2nd book.

dont' bigger beers take longer to properly ferment and carbonate?

SKMO said:

But why? I'm pretty lazy. Stonger beer means fewer hoists of the mug, less swallowing, fewer trips to the head to pee. So I am adverse to the idea of thinning mine down.

I'm not in this for the exercise.

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That's some kinda lazy when you don't want to hoist the mug or swallow

For the OP, read this about post-fermentation blending:

http://***********/stories/techniqu...ewing-tips/239-blending-for-volume-techniques

This thread may be old but I learned in school how bud makes bud light and wanted to share some details.

So what bud does is they ferment the beer but they also ferment dextrin. I forgot exactly how but I think they add in some sort of enzyme.

Since alcohol has more calories than carbs per gram, this actually rises the beers calories. Therefore it's not yet a light beer. Bud's abv is 5 whereas bud light is 4.2. The beer with the dextrin fermented will be about 6% abv so they dilute it down to 4.2. This is why light beers tasted watered down, because they add water.

I was wondering if anyone just brews a 7% abv dark beer and just waters it down just a bit, say to 5%?

I'm new to the homebrew world

geeyoupee said:

This thread may be old but I learned in school how bud makes bud light and wanted to share some details.

So what bud does is they ferment the beer but they also ferment dextrin. I forgot exactly how but I think they add in some sort of enzyme.

Since alcohol has more calories than carbs per gram, this actually rises the beers calories. Therefore it's not yet a light beer. Bud's abv is 5 whereas bud light is 4.2. The beer with the dextrin fermented will be about 6% abv so they dilute it down to 4.2. This is why light beers tasted watered down, because they add water.

I was wondering if anyone just brews a 7% abv dark beer and just waters it down just a bit, say to 5%?

I'm new to the homebrew world

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First post and a thread necro? Nice.

If what you're saying is true, then light beers don't taste watered down because they're watered down. It would be because they strip out the dextrin that would otherwise add a little body.

This makes me wonder- is Bud Light Platinum just the undiluted Bud Light?

My teacher said that the notion that dextrin gives the "body feel" is "baloney". He said the body feel of the beer is the total of all the ingredients in the beer. By adding water, the total amount of ingredients is less.

Other companies do high specific gravity brewing which ups all the ingredients and then dilutes. By upping everything, the body feel of the diluted beer should be the same to the normal specific gravity brewing but the foam and bitterness are not the same.

He said bud light platinum is a one of the stupidest things because it has 6%abv which is not light anymore because it has more calories. I heard that its distilled 3 times so I believe that its watered down and then distilled. I think undiluted bud light distilled 3 times would give it a higher ABV.

I'm not sure what a necro is but I'm new to brewing. aka have yet to do my first brew. I'm in the process of buying my first kit. I have learned a lot from my brewery class though and has got me interested in home brewing.

You necromanced the thread. Brought it back to life. It had not been replied to in 2 years! = a necro.

Lol I didn't notice it was a WC3 reference.

He said bud light platinum is a one of the stupidest things

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That stupid stuff is flying off the shelf.

The bottles do look cool:rockin:

The bottles do look cool but they are blue. I don't know how well they protect your beer from UV lights. The uv light could break down resins from the hops to give that skunky smell like Heineken and this would suck if you reused the bottles for your own brew.

geeyoupee said:

My teacher said that the notion that dextrin gives the "body feel" is "baloney". He said the body feel of the beer is the total of all the ingredients in the beer. By adding water, the total amount of ingredients is less.

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Fine then. Ask your teacher if dextrin is an ingredient in beer. If it is, then it gives the beer body, by his own definition. It sounds like the guy is intentionally being thick.

geeyoupee said:

The bottles do look cool but they are blue. I don't know how well they protect your beer from UV lights. The uv light could break down resins from the hops to give that skunky smell like Heineken and this would suck if you reused the bottles for your own brew.

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They're also screw tops. They also say Bud Light Platinum on them. Those are two good reasons not to use them for homebrew. As far as skunky smell, AB uses isomerized hop extract, which doesn't go skunky in the sun. That's why Miller can put beer in a clear bottle.

Dextrin is a huge contributor to body. I've been brewing for 6 months and even I know that :-/

Why not just brew another batch of beer?

dwarven_stout said:

Fine then. Ask your teacher if dextrin is an ingredient in beer. If it is, then it gives the beer body, by his own definition. It sounds like the guy is intentionally being thick.


They're also screw tops. They also say Bud Light Platinum on them. Those are two good reasons not to use them for homebrew. As far as skunky smell, AB uses isomerized hop extract, which doesn't go skunky in the sun. That's why Miller can put beer in a clear bottle.

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Most people tend to say it like dextrin gives most or all of the body feel, which he does not feel is true. More of the some of all the molecules of stuff. Sure the dextrin gets fermented and there's less of it but he believes that the dilution lowers the body feel. Say a beer has 10% molecules of ingredients (on the high side)and 90% water. Bud light goes from 6% to 4%, that's like adding havings 1.5 times the water of the original beer. So the 10% of molecules will be only 6% (so 94% water).

If I recall correctly, he tested it in the lab by adding dextrin to beers and seeing if there was more "body" to it and he said you had to add significantly high amounts to notice anything.

I think you meant to say AB uses REDUCED iso hop extract right. Yeah my teacher also said that miller uses reduced iso alpha acids in their beers but I never knew that AB does it also.

Sharkman20 said:

Why not just brew another batch of beer?

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Well, the problem is my Dad and his friends drink a whole lot. They will run through my beer like water so more volume is better in this situation. Also, if they are drinking strong beer, it probably isn't the best for their health.

geeyoupee said:

Well, the problem is my Dad and his friends drink a whole lot. They will run through my beer like water so more volume is better in this situation. Also, if they are drinking strong beer, it probably isn't the best for their health.

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Sounds more like you need a good padlock to lock your beer up to me. lol

dwarven_stout said:

Fine then. Ask your teacher if dextrin is an ingredient in beer. If it is, then it gives the beer body, by his own definition. It sounds like the guy is intentionally being thick.


They're also screw tops. They also say Bud Light Platinum on them. Those are two good reasons not to use them for homebrew. As far as skunky smell, AB uses isomerized hop extract, which doesn't go skunky in the sun. That's why Miller can put beer in a clear bottle.

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I never knew that, does Corona do the same thing?

Sharkman20 said:

Sounds more like you need a good padlock to lock your beer up to me. lol

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Lol, I can't padlock the fridge

geeyoupee said:

Lol, I can't padlock the fridge

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Good point. Might be time to hint to your dad to start funding your brewing projects. lol

Also, the yeast only work up until a ceretain alcohol content, then they stop regardless of how much sugar there is. You'd need to use a high alcohol tolerant yeast to ensure it attenuates properly in the fermenter.

This is my understanding of how it works, as imparted by a former brewer with a large brewing concern west of Denver:

The beers all start out as a higher gravity for the brand. Bud starts out higher than you get it, Coors starts out higher than you get it, Bud light starts out higher than you get it, etc. This higher grav beer is fermented out and then as it is being transferred just prior to packaging, water is added in-line to bring the ABV down to target. Since it happens in transfer, there aren't any blending issues.

Why do this?

Simple. Oklahoma, Kansas, Minnesota and Utah all have 3.2 laws. By doing it this way, the big boys can meet the legal requirements in all states without having to run separate runs for different locations.

MarzBock said:

I've been toying with the idea of producing a really heavy beer, with the OG in the neighborhood of 1.090 - 1.100, and then diluting it down about 50% with boiled, cooled water. I have no real desire to DRINK anything above 6%ABV, but it would be nice to get 10 gallons out of a 5 gallon batch.

Is this how the commercial breweries work? Do they make strong beer and then dilute it to the desired ABV concentration at bottling?

Is there any reason NOT to do this? I was concerned about hop utilization in this scenario, assuming that it would take twice as much hops to get the same bitterness value. Do you think hops would dilute in the same way as the alcohol content?

thanks for your input

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In my experience it costs much less to make the lower gravity beers, so why bother paying more for a high gravity beer and then watering it down. Why not just make two batches of cheaper low gravity beer?

I know companies will do high specific gravity brewing and then dilute because its more efficient and they can make different abv like you said but "proper" companies put more malt, hops, adjuncts, and yeast into the wort.

But with bud light, there's fermentation of dextrins which is different than high specific gravity brewing. The question is, does coors and bud do high specfic gravity brewing with more ingredients or are they just diluting it? Another scenario could be that the normal bud or coors has always been diluted and its the norm.

geeyoupee said:

Most people tend to say it like dextrin gives most or all of the body feel, which he does not feel is true. More of the some of all the molecules of stuff. Sure the dextrin gets fermented and there's less of it but he believes that the dilution lowers the body feel. Say a beer has 10% molecules of ingredients (on the high side)and 90% water. Bud light goes from 6% to 4%, that's like adding havings 1.5 times the water of the original beer. So the 10% of molecules will be only 6% (so 94% water).

If I recall correctly, he tested it in the lab by adding dextrin to beers and seeing if there was more "body" to it and he said you had to add significantly high amounts to notice anything.

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I'm not real big on hearsay brewing lectures from someone who's never brewed a batch. I can also do math, so made up numbers are not particularly meaningful.

Anyone who's studied brewing understands that there are multiple components to mouthfeel: alcohol warmth, carbonation, "creaminess" (due to proteins or glycerol), and body (due to dissolved solids of various natures). The BJCP hammers this knowledge into their judges, because the most common-sense thing you can do to fix a "watery" beer is mash your fermentables at a higher temperature to produce a more dextrinous wort. Everyone who has brewed an AG batch has mashed too hot on some occasion, and sat frustrated when the FG came out 3 points high.

Dextrins are a major component of the dissolved species in finished beer, along with 5-carbon sugars and tri-saccharides like maltotriose. Of course dilution decreases 3 of the 4 above elements of mouthfeel. Still, saying that dextrins are not a major contributor to body in finished beer is silly and goes against a fair portion of brewing literature to date. A beer with a FG of around 1.010 has around 2 POUNDS of dissolved "stuff" in 5 gallons. Of course he had to add a lot of dextrin to beer to notice a difference. It's also worth noting that "dextrin" is a term that covers everything from just a few glucose molecules in a branched chain up to twenty. If you want to see what a full strength beer without dextrin is like, drink a saison and tell me how the body compares to a robust porter or scottish 80/-.

I didn't mean to offend anyone but I'm just reiterating what I've been taught from my brewery professor. I'm not sure if what he's saying is all correct or it could be his opinion. What I meant to get across was that my professor feels that it's not all about the dextrins. He feels that dilution lowers body feel more than fermenting the dextrins.

His definition of dextrins from his book is that dextrains are maltotetraose and larger sugar molecules that are unfermentable.

I don't think comparing a saison and porter for body feel is scientific because it's comparing different things. If I really wanted to test this, I would take a two bud lights and add dextrins to one bud light and compare them.

Honestly, I'm not that experienced in brewing or beer tasting. I just like to drink and try out different beers. I'm not trying to lecture people in brewing or anything. I'm just putting it out there that there are different trains of thought. My professor made it obvious that people feel the loss of body from bud light was from the loss of dextrins and that he thought differently.

Yeah, so anyone reading my post, take it with a grain of salt.