Alcohol or Good Tasting Beer

I have been a associated with brewing for about 20 years and a home brewer for about 7 years. Reading threads here on homebrewtalk I see alot of home brewers concerned about hitting gravity and maximizing efficiency to make a specific beer. This raises several questions in my mind but one is; What is your primary objective in making beer, optimizing the flavor of the beer or generating alcohol? You can only pick one.

My objective is to optimize the flavor of the beer. To make what many describe as a balanced beer with little to no defects for the style.

So let's hear from you.

Dr Malt

I think you will find very few people here that don't share your views about why we brew. However, I think most of the posts about efficiency, OG, FG and ABV are usually more about our obsession with hitting the numbers, finding consistency and getting the system down than they are about just the alcohol.

Lol, thanks for a very leading question I guess. The reason why people are concerned with OG and FG is, in my opinion, because they want to make a certain beer to style. OG and FG relate very directly to flavor and mouthfeel due to the amounts of residual sugar and alcohol they imply. Also, when you make a good recipe, you've got to be able to reproduce it, and hitting the same OG and FG are a key part of that. As for efficiency, probably many people are too concerned about it, but if you're getting low efficiency, your process is probably not right. To me, efficiency is almost a measure of how well you're treating your malt.

Gnome and Rocket are full of wisdom - yes to what they said.

Flavor and balance over alcohol content any day. Heck if I could make a non alcoholic barleywine I wouldn't complain. I am out for the taste enjoyment, not the buzz. And "hitting the numbers" is how I can best get there, that and, like cooking, having a good recipe.

Alcohol is part of the flavor of the beer. You can't optimize the flavor of the beer without considering alcohol.

I make small beers for the flavor and the challenge. There is no room for errors and no cover-up. I've got some big beers, but certain styles are just big, you can't make them small without losing the style.

Note: very few people will post admitting they make big beers to get drunk faster. After all, that "boost" is really there to make the beer drier.

I don't so much care what my efficiency is (as lonh as it's reasonably good), but I want it to be roughly constant. The same for gravities and volumes, etc. I strive to understand all the technical in order to reduce the variables and hit those flavor profiles I'm looking for and be able to reproduce them batch to batch. If I can get my system really dialed in then ABV should follow suit. It's not my chief concern, but it is also important to style (and flavor profile in some cases).

remilard said:

Alcohol is part of the flavor of the beer. You can't optimize the flavor of the beer without considering alcohol.

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But I think what the OP is asking is, "Are we in this for the craft/flavor/hitting the numbers, or are we in it for the high?"

And I maintain that most of us do think flavor first and buzz quality second, if not lower.

Though I personally think there are many flavorful session beers out there. So I don't quite agree with you. Take ordinary bitters, some of the most tasty beers out there, and hardly relatively high on the alcohol scale.

I think this thread has been "Myth Busted" within 9 posts!

Many of the PP's have been seasoned, veteran brewers. I'm only on my 2nd batch, and I can say that I got into brewing because I wanted to brew certain styles of beer.

In order to best fit my beer into the style I want, I make sure that I pay attention to the OG/FG, etc. There's a reason why the style guide exists, and I want to be sure that I follow that. It's not about getting drunk, but I expect a certain ABV for a certain style, and getting consistency in hitting those marks (gravities, etc.) is what homebrewing is all about to me.

Weezknight said:

Many of the PP's have been seasoned, veteran brewers. I'm only on my 2nd batch, and I can say that I got into brewing because I wanted to brew certain styles of beer.

In order to best fit my beer into the style I want, I make sure that I pay attention to the OG/FG, etc. There's a reason why the style guide exists, and I want to be sure that I follow that. It's not about getting drunk, but I expect a certain ABV for a certain style, and getting consistency in hitting those marks (gravities, etc.) is what homebrewing is all about to me.

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Exactly! very few of us are experts on styles or techniques. The numbers are our first guides. After we get the numbers, then we can hand the finished product over to our taste buds to make the final decision on what we thought of the numbers.....And adjust the numbers accordingly.

As a noob I like to hit OG so I get an idea of what that OG/FG tastes like. It's also about making sure I did everything right. So when I try a new style I have an idea of how heavy I want it to be. And if I finally make something I really like I’ll be sure to try to hit that OG when I make the recipe again. Another thing is when I do a large Partial mash it's good to know I’m doing it right.

Actually the more I think about it, the more I think the ones who are out to just get drunk are the ones least likely to care about OG/FG. To me they would be the ones who just throw in the ingredients, bottle after 1 week, and consume.

I am very interested in efficiency. If you cannot reasonably control your efficiency numbers you have no control over your system and thereby no control over your final product. My efficiency swings in a 2% range and I find that acceptable with my equipment. This allows me to envision a beer, then brew it as intended. In my experience, without a firm control over the science of brewing, you are really just throwing darts at a board and hoping to get lucky.

I go for taste, but I will go out and say with out the ABV I don't know if I would do it. I like the effect of alcohol. I don't get drunk when I drink but I do get relaxed. I think many would be lying to themselves if they couldn't admit this is an important aspect of drinking. That doesn't mean I only like high gravity beers, I like lower ones because I can have more to drink without needing to stop. I also like having a beer that I can have 8 oz with my dinner and have a bit of an effect. Maybe I am the only one that likes alcohol and flavor but I think they are both important aspects of beer. From what I have learned working at the NYWCC beer was invented to preserve water, so in the end hop level and alcohol is all the first brewers were concerned with.

mitch171 said:

I go for taste, but I will go out and say with out the ABV I don't know if I would do it. I like the effect of alcohol. I don't get drunk when I drink but I do get relaxed. I think many would be lying to themselves if they couldn't admit this is an important aspect of drinking. That doesn't mean I only like high gravity beers, I like lower ones because I can have more to drink without needing to stop. I also like having a beer that I can have 8 oz with my dinner and have a bit of an effect. Maybe I am the only one that likes alcohol and flavor but I think they are both important aspects of beer. From what I have learned working at the NYWCC beer was invented to preserve water, so in the end hop level and alcohol is all the first brewers were concerned with.

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Actually, if I could make beer that tasted the same, but didn't have any alcohol in it, I'd do it.

I'm all about balance- the whole picture. I love malt and hops, and I'm turning into a style nazi for my own brewing. Not because I'm rigidly following styles, but because I really want to make every style of beer before tweaking it to my tastes. Once I nailed American amber, for example, (and it took me about 15 tries!) then I could tailor the recipe to my tastes.

Part of the balance is the OG and the FG, and of course the SG/IBU ratio. I love beer- the smell, the taste, the texture, the mouthfeel, and the flavor. If I wanted high ABV, I'd just put some vodka in lemonade.

I have a friend that apparently brews for alcohol content first and style second. I am the reverse. I agree that hitting my expected efficiency is important so that I can be consistent. For me, the "high" as Revvy put it is secondary.

MR2Aaron said:

Actually, if I could make beer that tasted the same, but didn't have any alcohol in it, I'd do it.

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Yep, I'm in total agreement.

Thank goodness we don't have to make such decisions.

I'm no drunkard, but I think the alcohol content is the added bonus to the great-tasting beverage that is beer.

And I especially like a little heat from the alcohol in stouts, dopplebocks, etc.

This is where the opinions will differ. I think most everyone on this board cares more for the flavor than just making hooch.

From there some only like the flavor. And some, myself included, do it for the flavor and the feeling.

In the end it doesn't matter, we all enjoy what we do and that is what home brewing is about!

I definitely go more for flavor when I brew, but I don't think I'd be a homebrewer if there weren't alcohol in the stuff. That is to say, the relaxation, the way a beer or two take the edge off at the end of a stressful day, these things go hand in hand with the flavor, aroma, and body of the beer to make up the "beer experience." I brew session ales, bigger stouts, and mostly beers around the 5% abv mark. I don't set out to make a beer with a certain amount of alcohol in it, but I think it would be disingenuous of me to say that I don't appreciate that there IS alcohol in it. I don't make hooch- I spend more for good ingredients and appropriate equipment, and put a lot of time into researching, designing, and brewing my beers. But, I do appreciate the alcohol.

Who cares what it tastes like? It's the buzz that counts. Grind that grain up into flour and squeeze every last drop of sugar out of it. Honestly, what's a few off-flavors compared to getting your high on as fast as possible? Nobody actually cares whether or not it's an "award-wining recipe" (whatever that means). We just want to pour a tall pint from our awesome kegerators and get lit. We're all just a bunch of happy drunks! Hell, the first thing I do when I get home is crank up the George Thoroughgood and fill that glass! Then I take off my coat!

Imperial = good. Double Everything! Come morning, I don't remember what that sht tasted like anyway...

Homercidal said:

Who cares what it tastes like? It's the buzz that counts. Grind that grain up into flour and squeeze every last drop of sugar out of it. Honestly, what's a few off-flavors compared to getting your high on as fast as possible? Nobody actually cares whether or not it's an "award-wining recipe" (whatever that means). We just want to pour a tall pint from our awesome kegerators and get lit. We're all just a bunch of happy drunks! Hell, the first thing I do when I get home is crank up the George Thoroughgood and fill that glass! Then I take off my coat!

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Then I smack the missus on the rear and ask what's for dinner?

It just occured to me that if I only brewed for the alcohol, then i would have put the "beer" that I just decanted from my starter into a glass and actually drank the SOB instead of putting it down the sink!

WOW!! This turned out to be a hotter topic than I anticipated and from my fellow senior members. Thanks for the interesting perspectives. Keep em coming.

Dr Malt

Dr Malt said:

WOW!! This turned out to be a hotter topic than I anticipated and from my fellow senior members. Thanks for the interesting perspectives. Keep em coming.

Dr Malt

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Fellow senior members? Living in the past, maybe?

I could make something 15-20 alc rather easily. I want taste.

MR2Aaron said:

Actually, if I could make beer that tasted the same, but didn't have any alcohol in it, I'd do it.

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That may be the craziest thing I have ever heard.

At this point when I do kits I don't take an OG or FG. I don't care how much alcohol is in my beer and I leave the fermenter alone long enough to be confident I won't make bombs.

When I do my own recipes I take readings to know how I have done.

I focus on hitting numbers (OG/FG, efficiency, IBUs) because that's how you achieve balance and reproducibility. Without those, how would you ever make another batch of that delicious, delicious recipe?

Now of course, part of the reason that the recipe was so delicious is that it had a certain ABV that was in balance with the flavor and the carbonation and the color and the setting...

I almost always go for the abv, as my favorite styles of beer tend to be barley wines and anything with the imperial label. I've done some barley wines that were very strong yet still retained a pleasant flavor. Personally, I like the taste of a beer that hides the alcohol well yet still has that warming sensation many of us come to appreciate.

Homercidal said:

Hell, the first thing I do when I get home is crank up the George Thoroughgood and fill that glass! Then I take off my coat!
.

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I don't know about the George Thoroughgood, but while I had my pumpkin ale on Beer Gas I would often pour the first half of the pint before I took my coat off...

Dr Malt said:

I have been a associated with brewing for about 20 years and a home brewer for about 7 years. Reading threads here on homebrewtalk I see alot of home brewers concerned about hitting gravity and maximizing efficiency to make a specific beer. This raises several questions in my mind but one is; What is your primary objective in making beer, optimizing the flavor of the beer or generating alcohol? You can only pick one.

My objective is to optimize the flavor of the beer. To make what many describe as a balanced beer with little to no defects for the style.

So let's hear from you.

Dr Malt

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Please excuse me "Dr Malt" if I do not understand the intent of your post. Your 20 yrs. and 7 yrs. homebrewer really doesn't cut much ice here. People on HBT are interested in improving their techniques. Efficiency, malt profile, style compatability. If these criteria are accomplished, flavour follows. Personally, I think you're off base.

I will fess up, I have made beers for the alcohol but not purely that. I am a college kid and after a long week of reports or exams I enjoy a few high gravity beers to get the buzz. I just hate going out feeling so bloated and then not wanting to drink anymore.

Now don't get me wrong I do not go for hooch, I still want good taste so maybe there is a fine line.

When I first got into brewing if it wasn't at least 5.5% alcohol I wondered why brewing it. If I had under-attenuating yeast I'd be pissed. Now I limit myself to one bottle a night to keep from gaining weight and at that point the alcohol content is meaningless, so I much prefer taste.

Flavor is definitely tops. Local brew pub had an awesome ordinary bitter last spring. Never asked, but I'm sure it was in the "session" category. I could easily (and readily) knock back 4 pints in an evening. I gotta talk to Mike about that beer and try to brew it myself!! That was my favorite beer of all time.

Making good beer is #1 on my list of priorities and about the only thing on page one of that list. If one of my batches is not good beer, then it's a failure. There's no "well, at least I hit my gravity and made some booze." It's an unqualified failure.

That said, the alcohol is not merely a fortunate by-product of brewing. I like that stuff, too. Sure, if I could brew some of my beers without alcohol, I would. However, I doubt I would reach for them as often as the ones that were still armed & dangerous. That said, some of my favorite and most often drunk beers are around or below 4.5%.


TL

I am new to homebrewing as many of you know. I like to hit my numbers or get as close as I can. I am learning so the numbers are very important to me. Lets me know I am not screwing up to much. Take for example my Chocolate Stout was not suppose to be an Imperial Chocolate Stout. I got really great efficiency, or LHBS might have gave me to much grain. SG was 1.075! Still trying to figure that one out. I like big beers I won't lie about that! So I do tend to brew big beers. Not that I don't like a brown ale (I have 9.5 gallons in ferm right now.) Yes I like to get a buzz when I have a beer. And yes sometimes I end up drunk. But I have enjoyed the flavor of every beer that I have brewed so far. Although the first one none of you all warned me about bubble gut!!! I feel that I am now brewing some really great beers. To the point of I can't remember the last beer I went out and bought.

Hell, you can generate alcohol with a vat of white sugar, water, and a packet of baker's yeast. Pour, mix, pitch, wait, drink. Might taste disgusting, but it would do the trick.

Brewing for me is absolutely about making something that tastes great, and something I can be proud of to share with friends and family.