batch sparging temps

i've seen in various places that you shouldn't sparge above 170* and should sparge in excess... how does this pertain to batch sparging?

i mean, if you are trying to get your grain bed up to about 168* when adding your first batch of sparge water, you have to heat the water up to 180-190 (at least in my situation, depending on the amount of grain in the mash tun), so wouldn't this violate the 'don't sparge above 170* rule'? or does the rapid equilibration of the grain and hot water nullify any effect of water being too hot?

also, what is the general thought on how much sparging is too much? i doubt if i've ever had that problem, but i'm just curious to know.

As I understand it, the temp of the grainbed is not to exceed 170, a first sparge at 180-190 usually get me pretty close.

Not sure on the sparging less idea, i think I'll try it??

i've seen in a few different places that 'excessive sparging' can cause off flavors such as astringency and chlorophenols... but again, i don't know how much 'excess' is. it seems like if i have 5 gallons to mix with grains, i'll end up having to sparge with about 5 more gallons to get to ~8 preboil for a 90 min boil. so, i usually do (2) 2.5 gal sparges, which i'm sure a lot of people would do...

i agree that the 180-190 gets me close to 170, but i'm wondering if the initial minute or however long it takes for the grain bed to equalize is detrimental in any way.

Do you stir when pouring in the infusion sparge water, and then let rest? If so I would think the temp change would be almost instant and not detrimental.

Too much sparge is when you can't boil off to your desired post-boil volume and then you wind up with a diluted beer. I'm not sure what you mean by "excess sparging" and assume it's a fly sparging concept. Sparging is just rinsing out of the sugars, after all.

amercuric said:

Too much sparge is when you can't boil off to your desired post-boil volume and then you wind up with a diluted beer. I'm not sure what you mean by "excess sparging" and assume it's a fly sparging concept. Sparging is just rinsing out of the sugars, after all.

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yes, but if you rinse too much, your pH can't get to high which can lead to astringent flavors.....

does the rapid equilibration of the grain and hot water nullify any effect of water being too hot?

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Yes, although I add pH5.2 to my batch sparges and run even hotter.

AZ_IPA said:

yes, but if you rinse too much, your pH can't get to high which can lead to astringent flavors.....

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Interesting. I never thought about it that way. So there's a point where you start extracting more bad flavor compounds than good ones like sugar.

AZ_IPA said:

yes, but if you rinse too much, your pH can't get to high which can lead to astringent flavors.....

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exactly what i was getting at... but i've only had astringency on one beer and it went away after lagering for a bit, so i don't think my batch sparging technique was to blame... and i've started using the pH 5.2 product as well, just to insure the mash pH comes out perfect.