Hefeweizen question

I'm still conditioning my first batch of beer (an IPA) in the secondary for a while longer, so I thought, "Why not bang out a Hefe in the mean time?" After all, it is summer time, and I won't be needing the secondary for this beer. And I'm soooo thirsty!

Fermentation of the hefe started fast and furious... the airlock was trickling about 2 hours after pitching! (The IPA had a long lag time so this was a nice surprise!) By the 4 hour mark there was a nice thick krauesen building and the airlock was bubbling away at a pretty good tempo. :rockin: I checked again this morning and contrary to my dream last night, the airlock was not embedded in the ceiling, and there was not 6 inches of foam all over the basement floor.

Now I've been working my mind on this IPA for a while, and I know that conditioning of the IPA takes considerable time. I'm not planning on drinking that one until 8-10 weeks after brew day. But everything I hear and read tells me wheat beer is a whole different ballgame, and I'll be chillin in the back yard tasting this batch of brew within 3 weeks or so.

I'm thinking I should be bottling the hefe right after the krauesen falls back, right? Since I'm priming w/ sugar, the yeast will "recover" in the bottle and give that murky glow that we know and love in a hefeweizen, right?

Wrongo-dongo, 6-4. Judging doneness by falling krausen is like peering into your car's gas tank with a flashlight to see how much gas you have left.

Once the krausen falls and airlock activity subsides, take a hydrometer reading. Then take another reading a few days later. If there's no change in the reading, then you're fine. Bottle it. If there is a change, then it's not quite done.

Heed my advice or end up with gushers or bottle bombs!

Evan! said:

Wrongo-dongo, 6-4. Judging doneness by falling krausen is like peering into your car's gas tank with a flashlight to see how much gas you have left.

Once the krausen falls and airlock activity subsides, take a hydrometer reading. Then take another reading a few days later. If there's no change in the reading, then you're fine. Bottle it. If there is a change, then it's not quite done.

Heed my advice or end up with gushers or bottle bombs!

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Yep, what Evan said.

Also, with a hefe, the krausen may not completely fall back into the beer. That is thick stuff (from all the proteins in the wheat).

So ALWAYS trust your hydrometer. Pretty much all other visual clues about fermentation (e.g., bubbling rate, krausening, etc.) are potentially misleading.

A Hydrometer should tell you if its done fermenting, lack of krausen is a good sign, but not the end-all-be-all signal that its done. Hefe's are known for vigorous fermentation, so if you feed it, and its not already done with what its doing, you might be making bottle bomb.s

I've found that a good rule of thumb for hefe's is go 2 weeks in the primary and then go to bottles and wait 2 more weeks before you start drinking it. Oh and rack a new batch on the yeast cake in the primary after you bottle because that first batch won't last long.

bradsul said:

Oh and rack a new batch on the yeast cake in the primary after you bottle because that first batch won't last long.

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Good advice, my friend, good advice!

Thanks for the save, Evan!

Oh and rack a new batch on the yeast cake in the primary after you bottle because that first batch won't last long.

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That brings up more n00b questions. Would I just add a new batch of chilled wort to the yeast that's left, and leave it at that? How does this affect the hop additions?

You guys are great!

SixFoFalcon said:

Thanks for the save, Evan!

That brings up more n00b questions. Would I just add a new batch of chilled wort to the yeast that's left, and leave it at that? How does this affect the hop additions?

You guys are great!

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You make up your next batch just like the first, then instead of racking into an empty primary and pitching yeast, you are just racking your cooled wort right onto a yeast cake. If you don't have one you WILL need a blow-off tube. Otherwise it will be quite a mess to clean up.

After you rack your first beer into your bottling bucket make sure you seal up your primary again with an airlock as if it was fermenting until your new batch is ready. That will keep the yeast cake from picking up any nasties.

Ahh, OK. I wasn't sure if the hops in the trub from the first batch would have an influence the second time around.

If you have a ton of hops in the trub you might want to try washing your yeast (check the wiki), but if it isn't really bad I wouldn't worry about it. They will settle out almost immediately and won't affect your next brew enough to worry about.

I feel so proud that you guys are pushing using a hydrometer that I could almost cry!

All good advice.

I actually kegged one of my HWs in 9 days and drank it at 4 weeks.

i've had a few hefes go only 10 days in primary, but usually take 3-4 weeks in bottle before they're really good.

My heffy has been in primary for over 10 days now. The airlock activity subsided substantially. I was getting ready to keg it last night when I took a hydrometer reading. It still was at 1.020. Looks like it won't be kegged today.

My hefe has been bubbling since Sunday evening ( ~4pm I would guess) and I was planning to move it to secondary this weekend. I guess I should hold off?

How do you (safely) extract enough beer to take the hydro reading and not ruin the batch with a 6.5 gal carboy? Rack it?

AE

OK, I'm a n00b so take this with as many grains of salt as you like...

One of the main functions of a secondary is to clarify the beer. You want suspended yeast in a hefe, and it's a relatively "fast" beer, so there should be no reason for a secondary. Just wait 'til fermentation is done, then go straight to bottling.

Ale eon said:

My hefe has been bubbling since Sunday evening ( ~4pm I would guess) and I was planning to move it to secondary this weekend. I guess I should hold off?

How do you (safely) extract enough beer to take the hydro reading and not ruin the batch with a 6.5 gal carboy? Rack it?

AE

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I would just leave it in primary for 2 weeks and then go right to bottles. Hefe's are supposed to be cloudy so a secondary really isn't necessary.

If you have an auto-syphon you can remove the racking cane portion (the inner piece) and dip that down into the beer (after sanitizing of course!). It will slowly fill up and then you can remove it and check your sample.

Thanks for the response Brad. My Belhaven Wee Heavy kit is on its way so I will use my plastic fermenter for that instead of clearing the carboy.

AE

Ale eon said:

Thanks for the response Brad. My Belhaven Wee Heavy kit is on its way so I will use my plastic fermenter for that instead of clearing the carboy.

AE

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Oh man are you going to love that beer. I got the Belhaven Wee Heavy kit from ahs a few months ago. Incredible taste for a high abv beer - certainly a beer that I will be making again.

bradsul said:

After you rack your first beer into your bottling bucket make sure you seal up your primary again with an airlock as if it was fermenting until your new batch is ready. That will keep the yeast cake from picking up any nasties.

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How long can you let the yeast cake sit like this before adding the next batch of wort?

DeathBrewer said:

i've had a few hefes go only 10 days in primary, but usually take 3-4 weeks in bottle before they're really good.

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Someone at my LHB Club offered up a Hefe for the tasting exactly 2 weeks from brew date. He kegs, which makes it easier to adjust the pressure (no bottle bombs) and as I recall, it was fresh tasting without being green... Very good.

As for letting yeast sit, Arturo7, I've heard people recommend leaving about an inch of beer on top of it to keep it happy, for... a few days? Maybe a week. Someone wil chime in with a better answer...

kvh

I made a hefe a few weeks ago. Primary for 10 days then bottled. I had some 5 days later...15 days old. It was about 90% carbonated, it was amazing. It lost that great fresh taste but I almost think it is coming back to that taste now that it has been in the bottles for about 4 weeks.

arturo7 said:

How long can you let the yeast cake sit like this before adding the next batch of wort?

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Some people have said they keep it for a week or two. Personally I use it within a day or three at most. If I'm going to keep it any longer I sanitize a mason jar and put it in the fridge.

I don't bother leaving too much of the previous beer on it. Just enough to cover it so it doesn't dry out.

Fermentation stalled nearly dead last night. Everything was fine that morning--nice fluffy krauesen, airlock bubbling happily. Then I came home, and the krausen had fallen back about 50%, and the bubbling was much reduced. A few hours later there was NO krauesen at all (just a faint ring of bubbles around the edge) and the airlock was barely bubbling at all. I gave the carboy a swirl, but there is still nothing happening today. I'd love to know why...

So basically, this is the situation:
I pitched the yeast on Monday at around 4:00 PM and fermentation was going pretty furious within 2 hrs. Apparently that continued for a little over 24 hours and then stopped suddenly. OG was 1.054. SG as of tonight is 1.021 (seems like it should go down another 10 or so?) The kit ingredients were simply 6.6# of NorthWestern Weizen LME, 1 oz bittering hops (unlabeled), 1 oz aroma hops (unlabeled) and 10g Safbrew T-58. Temperature has been a dead constant 68*F the whole time.

I'm a little confused. We'll see what the hydrometer tells us tomorrow I guess. The stuff does taste good, though!

It isn't unusual to have a very active first few days. Leave it alone until Monday and take another reading. Just give it time and let the yeast do their thing.

hefes are usually best about 4-6 weeks after they are bottled. aging them for too long will make them taste stale.

My hefe looked similarly depressed last night - very little foam, a bubble in the air lock every 5 seconds. I'll let it be for now and concentrate on the next brew.

Silly question regarding Bradsul's autosiphon suggestion - can you give more detail on that procedure (after the sanitizing) please? The auto siphon would then have open holes at the top and bottom - how would it fill? And how do I get it in and out of the carboy without dropping it in?

I swear I am working on the 'Relax, don't worry' bit - the home brew will have to wait a few more weeks.

AE

Ale eon said:

My hefe looked similarly depressed last night - very little foam, a bubble in the air lock every 5 seconds. I'll let it be for now and concentrate on the next brew.

Silly question regarding Bradsul's autosiphon suggestion - can you give more detail on that procedure (after the sanitizing) please? The auto siphon would then have open holes at the top and bottom - how would it fill? And how do I get it in and out of the carboy without dropping it in?

I swear I am working on the 'Relax, don't worry' bit - the home brew will have to wait a few more weeks.

AE

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The auto-syphon has a one-way valve at the bottom, so once it has filled with some liquid and you remove it the valve will close and hold the liquid in. Now it's not a great valve so it will drip (mine always did) but you can drop your hydrometer down into the tube and take your reading quickly. If you want to return the sample to the fermenter make sure you also sanitize your hydrometer. Personally I drink the sample.

Alternately you could get yourself a wine thief. I switched to those (no more expensive than an auto-syphon and they're definitely easier to use.

Thanks again.

AE

Still not making much progress. The first 24 hours were great, but every day since then the airlock only ticks once every 2-3 minutes, and the SG is stuck at 1.021. Seems awfully high for a Hefe. There is a nice thick 1" layer of yeasties on the bottom, so there's proof that they did reproduce quite nicely. They just don't like eating my beer. It tastes good, but sweet.

Try giving the carboy a swirl to rouse some yeast up off the bottom. At 1.021 I very much doubt it is finished yet. I'm not sure what temperature you have it at (I admit; I'm too lazy to read back through the thread right now ) but you could try raising it slightly to see if that gets them going again.

I've tried swirling it several times. Maybe I'm not being forceful enough? I make sure when I do it, I'm not splashing the surface too much, but a good portion of the yeast does get re-suspended and the beer gets cloudy again. At most, that makes the airlock bubble a few times momentarily, but within 10-20 minutes it settles back to bubbling once every 2-3 minutes.

It's at 68*F and there's not much I can do to raise that. EDIT - Just moved it to an upstairs closet. Perhaps it will be a couple degrees warmer there.

SixFoFalcon said:

I've tried swirling it several times. Maybe I'm not being forceful enough? I make sure when I do it, I'm not splashing the surface too much, but a good portion of the yeast does get re-suspended and the beer gets cloudy again. At most, that makes the airlock bubble a few times momentarily, but within 10-20 minutes it settles back to bubbling once every 2-3 minutes.

It's at 68*F and there's not much I can do to raise that. EDIT - Just moved it to an upstairs closet. Perhaps it will be a couple degrees warmer there.

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I had a stout that was stuck and what got it moving was getting off the concrete floor. Sure my room was 65 but the floor was more like 60.

Give it a few days in the warmer room and see where it's at.

The temp is now up 2 degrees. A very fine layer of bubbles has returned to the surface. Airlock activity is up to one bubble per minute.

Updates to follow.

Once I bumped up the temperature a couple degrees, the SG dropped about .002 within about 2 days, but then it stayed at 1.019 for several days in a row. Friday, I pitched another 10g of Safbrew T-58 and there were a few tiny bubbles on the surface a couple hours later, but that went away quickly. Hydro read 1.019 again this morning. I'll check it again tomorrow, but I'm starting to suspect this batch may be done.

similar situation with my just made hefe. I made a good starter and the next day I cleaned the airlock 5 or 6 times before the afternoon even rolled around! I didn't have a blow off tube at the time (although I ended up running to ACE hardware to get some). I just got a new hydrometer yesterday so I'll have to see where I'm at.

bradsul said:

I've found that a good rule of thumb for hefe's is go 2 weeks in the primary and then go to bottles and wait 2 more weeks before you start drinking it. Oh and rack a new batch on the yeast cake in the primary after you bottle because that first batch won't last long.

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Mine will be in the primary 3 weeks by the time I get to keg it, will the yeast still be happy enough to reuse them or should I buy new yeast? (I've never repitched)

sphericalcamel said:

Mine will be in the primary 3 weeks by the time I get to keg it, will the yeast still be happy enough to reuse them or should I buy new yeast? (I've never repitched)

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They'll be happier when you give them a bunch more food to eat. They will be fine!