White wine - am I supposed to shake the carboy during fermentation?

Hi !

I've been making white wine from a concentrate, and it is currently fermenting (2-3 weeks left).

This concentrate came with a pretty akward user guide, and my question is this:

Am I supposed to give the carboy a good shake several times a day during the fermentation? Or do I let it sit still?

This may be a stupid question, and if so, pardon my ignorance..

Thanks!

BR. Jon

yeast dont like vibrations, dont shake.

im new to this as well, so maybe there is some shaking method I am not aware of?

Sometimes the instructions ask you to stir during the first couple of days, but not usually. In primary, it's fine to have it exposed to air as long as it's covered so that fruitflies and the like can't get to it. After the first few days, it's important to keep it airlocked and not splash/shake/stir so that you don't aerate it. Oxygen will ruin wine after fermentation slows.

The idea behind stirring is to break up the larger yeast colonies and even them out some during active fermentation. It will also help to remove gas and other byproducts as well. You may have to stir just the top every 20 minutes after adding the yeast as is floats on the surface foaming up to be followed with a good bottom stir. If it takes a week for active fermentation, you have to stir 2x a day but if it takes a month, then 2x a week should be fine. There is an art to stirring depending on what needs done. Some live yeast will float to the bottom and it helps to kick them up a bit.

Thanks for the replies !

I can see that I may have been a little to hard on this first batch with all the rattling and violent shaking, but now, 3 days into the secound stage of fermentation, the airlock is still quite active and everything looks to be normal.

The manual however states that "you should give the carboy a good stir..4-5 times a day during first stage of fermentation in order to achieve the ultimate result"... sure hope I didn't ruin what's supposed to be me and my misses xmas greeting gifts.. :/

Anyways - I'll make sure to update this thread on the final results as it should be ready close to christmas. =)

Thanks again! BR. Jon

BTW, the airlock has been on from day 1, so it was never exposed to oxygen - at least not on purpose.

Oh, and another question:

Is there anything I can do to enchance the flavour of the wine at or after the 2nd stage of fermentation?

I'm thinking in the lines of "customizing" it in some degree.

brewew said:

Oh, and another question:

Is there anything I can do to enchance the flavour of the wine at or after the 2nd stage of fermentation?

I'm thinking in the lines of "customizing" it in some degree.

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Well you said you were using concentrate? Is it a concentrate kit?

I use just regular old frozen concentrates from walmart to make cheap and dirty batches for large gatherings. I'd highly recomend cran-grape. If you have a 5 gallon batch going get some 2-3 containers of frozen concentrate, open and let them come to room temperature, and add to your batch. I say open them first because if you let them thaw first they will squish and explode everywhere when you try to open them. Concentrate (maybe cut with water to 50% strength) is good for topping and keeping your head space to a minimum.

I would emphasize that the wine must be stabilized before adding more sugars. Otherwise the yeast still in solution will just eat all the sugars and kick up the ABV% further.

brazedowl,

It might be a slightly different concentrate. As I'm fairly new to the brewing bussiness, I'll try and explain it as good as I can.

It's a 5 litre dunk of liquid grape concentrate, including sugar in the mix.
Instruction/guidelines says to add 17 l. water, 2 l. concentrate and then yeast and let it sit for 3-4 days - then adding the remaining 3 l. of concentrate.

I'm at the stage of 2nd fermentation right now.. 4 days after adding the rest of the concentrate, to be exact.

I'm doing the brewing in Norway, so I'm not familiar with the Walmart product range - but I'm sure there's something similar to "cran-grape" available here.
Might be a ignorant q, but with cran-grape, do you mean some form of pastiturized cranberry juice concentrate...?

Justibone,

I suppose that would be after another 2-3 weeks, right before or when, fermentation is at the very end (before adding stopper)?

Thanks again for your replies !

brazedowl,

Forgot to comment - it's not some sort of a typical "ready in 7 days"-kit. I'm using a plasic carboy with a ferment lock and plan on doing 2 changeovers to new carboys after 2-3 weeks from now. The minimum est. time to have it ready is 2-3 weeks. I'm fermenting at the lower end of the temperature scale, so I'm counting on having this ready just before christmas.

brewew said:

Justibone,

I suppose that would be after another 2-3 weeks, right before or when, fermentation is at the very end (before adding stopper)?

Thanks again for your replies !

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The only way to tell if your wine is done is with a hydrometer.

If you choose to forcibly stabilize (using meta+sulfite or refrigeration or whatever) then you can stop the wine anytime you want, once the main part of fermentation is over.

brazedowl said:

I use just regular old frozen concentrates from walmart to make cheap and dirty batches for large gatherings.

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It has always been my understanding that the frozen stuff has a bite when drinking it young. Not good if you need it now. I think it may be that when they freeze it, it forms a crystalline structure. For that reason I always used bottle juice that way it's done aged 2 or 3 months before I even buy it.

Justibone,

Yes, I will check it with the hydrometer once once the yeast has run it's course (another 2-3 weeks).


The concentrate I'm using is liquid, not frozen, like CampFireWine uses.


So, any of you guys have any further input on what I can do to enchance the wine? Can I add any substances "on top" of the wine at this stage of the process (2nd ferment)?

Thanks again!

Any flavor will work as well.

Raisins will give it body. *shrug*

It isnt going to hurt to shake it if theres no oxygen for it to grab. As youve described theres only co2 and when you shake/stir/whatever youre just going to release co2 locked in the ferment and remix the yeast cake back into the wine. Allowing yeast that has run out of nutrients/sugar to find new stuff to eat.

Thanks guys !

Another q while I'm at it - how many carboys is recommended? Is 2 enough? Can I use plastic non-seethrough carboys, or would I be much better off with a see through for secound stage processing?

I've brewd beer in one of them once... can I safely use that one for wine?

CampFireWine said:

It has always been my understanding that the frozen stuff has a bite when drinking it young. Not good if you need it now. I think it may be that when they freeze it, it forms a crystalline structure. For that reason I always used bottle juice that way it's done aged 2 or 3 months before I even buy it.

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We go through a TON of it every thanksgiving (and thanksgiving II), every year. It's rarely more then 6-8 months old. I bottle it july-august and we drink most of it nov-jan. No bite, no rocket fuel, just strong sweet amazingness.

Yeah, 6 mo's is pretty good for many types of wine. Some need more than that, though, according to Yoop and others. (Mine have all been good before 6 mo's, but I've only finished kit wines up to this point.)

brewew said:

Another q while I'm at it - how many carboys is recommended? Is 2 enough? Can I use plastic non-seethrough carboys, or would I be much better off with a see through for secound stage processing?

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How much of anything is enough? I am starting to like the little 4L glass carboys because I can have more types of wine aging at a time. Also, they are dirt cheap, and sometimes come pre-filled with okay-tasting wine.

I only have 1 big ol' 6 gal carboy, and I'm using that one for the wine kits I get. Two carboys is enough if you only want to brew wine four times a year.

See-through carboys are slightly better, IMO, b/c you can see when the wine clears. That being said, it is not essential to have a see-through one. What is essential is that your carboy is relatively impermeable to oxygen... which glass is. I think Better Bottles are oxygen-impermeable as well.

I've brewd beer in one of them once... can I safely use that one for wine?

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Yes. So long as you get the flavors out, it's all good to share beer & wine equipment.

Justibone,

Thank you very much for the answers ! I have one seethrough (plastic though) coming this week.. being able to identify the clearing makes a lot of sense =)

Justibone said:

So long as you get the flavors out, it's all good to share beer & wine equipment.

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I would say the biggest problem I had with flavor bleed-over was from hops. You really need a dedicated hops bag, but the grain bag is fine to use for fruit if you are making your own fruit wine.