Which welder to get?

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Grimsawyer

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Goofin with the idea of getting a welder. I want to have a foot pedal for sure and it needs to be able to do SS. And I'm I have a very limited SWMBO tool allowance. I am going to do keggles(after alot of practice on the tops I have cut out, want to get it right!) and make a frame for a brew stand(not stainless, painted steel tubing... WHEEE!!!) anyone have any suggestions of 2 or 3 models I should look for. Also, should I look on craig's for one?
 
You might want to review this recent thread is this a decent welder since it has some potentially useful background info in it. It's mostly a discussion of MIG welders.

Foot pedal implies TIG. It's used to vary the amperage while welding. I'm a beginner weldor and not experienced enough to say for sure, but I don't think foot pedals are used in stick or MIG welding. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Most people use MIG or stick for mild steel. With MIG, you just point and pull the trigger, it couldn't be simpler. (Ok, that is slight oversimplification, but not by much.) MIG is really easy to learn compared to stick. I have a Hobart Handler 187 MIG and I love it.

TIG is best for SS. Yuri TIGs and will probably weigh in on this with better info than I can give you. You can use MIG with stainless wire and argon gas, but you'll get much cleaner results with TIG. I don't know what your budget is, but TIG is expensive. Entry level is about $1000 higher than a comparable MIG setup. I would not settle for any import TIG machine at all, period. Stick with Miller, Lincoln, or Hobart.

Inverter TIG welders are lighter and cheaper to operate than transformer TIG machines. The inverter TIGs are truly portable. The least capable TIG machine I'd settle for is the Miller MaxStar 150 STH TIG package with Remote. Note that it is DC only and will not weld aluminum. You need AC/DC TIG for that, and the Miller Dynasty 200 SD would be my choice if I was planning on spending that much (over $2k with foot pedal, and that's not even counting gas, welding helmet, gloves, consumables, etc).

Check out specs for Miller TIG welders here Miller GTAW welders but of course, ignore any prices on their site and google for it. Cyberweld, Brweldingsupplies, etc.
 
A couple days ago on Epay I saw a used mint condition like new Miller 250 Synchrowave buy it now for $1,700. Once you go to Tig it makes Mig and
especially stick a nasty process. I myself have a Miller 350 Synchrowave
fully loaded plus a Millermatic 251 with 30A spoolgun with owner owned 280 cu/ft argon and C-25 bottles. Darn it I have 3 kegs to cut for brewing and a bad back preventing me from doing anything.
As mentioned before Cyberwelds has the best prices unless you go used or EPay.
 
A couple days ago on Epay I saw a used mint condition like new Miller 250 Synchrowave buy it now for $1,700. Once you go to Tig it makes Mig and
especially stick a nasty process. I myself have a Miller 350 Synchrowave fully loaded plus a Millermatic 251 with 30A spoolgun with owner owned 280 cu/ft argon and C-25 bottles. Darn it I have 3 kegs to cut for brewing and a bad back preventing me from doing anything.
As mentioned before Cyberwelds has the best prices unless you go used or EPay.
Your not going to Tig stainless right away even with proper instruction without many many hours of welding time.....=o&o>.....
 
I don't think you want that thing, it probably weighs 200+ lbs. I'd look into new lightweight inverter TIGs. I have never TIG'ed SS, just mild steel and Al at tech school.


BrewBeemer said:
A couple days ago on Epay I saw a used mint condition like new Miller 250 Synchrowave buy it now for $1,700. Once you go to Tig it makes Mig and
especially stick a nasty process. I myself have a Miller 350 Synchrowave
fully loaded plus a Millermatic 251 with 30A spoolgun with owner owned 280 cu/ft argon and C-25 bottles. Darn it I have 3 kegs to cut for brewing and a bad back preventing me from doing anything.
As mentioned before Cyberwelds has the best prices unless you go used or EPay.
 
I've been thinking about an inverter TIG for a while, just don't have the justification to shell out 2k. One model I looked at was the HTP invertig, but I'm leery of parts availability with a relatively unknown brand (it is supposed to be a rebrand of some Italian machine)

http://www.usaweld.com/products/tig_welders/tig201.html

billtzk said:
You might want to review this recent thread
Inverter TIG welders are lighter and cheaper to operate than transformer TIG machines. The inverter TIGs are truly portable. The least capable TIG machine I'd settle for is the [url=http://store.cyberweld.com/mima150sthdc.html]Miller MaxStar 150 STH TIG package with Remote
. Note that it is DC only and will not weld aluminum. You need AC/DC TIG for that, and the Miller Dynasty 200 SD would be my choice if I was planning on spending that much (over $2k with foot pedal, and that's not even counting gas, welding helmet, gloves, consumables, etc).
 
vmpolesov said:
I've been thinking about an inverter TIG for a while, just don't have the justification to shell out 2k. One model I looked at was the HTP invertig, but I'm leery of parts availability with a relatively unknown brand (it is supposed to be a rebrand of some Italian machine)

http://www.usaweld.com/products/tig_welders/tig201.html

I have not researched that particular welder, but there are several recent (in the past few days) threads on http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/ that discuss the HTP Invertig. Just use the Search function on that forum to search for Invertig and you'll see them. There's a whole section of that forum devoted to TIG.
 
billtzk said:
...weldor...
I see you've been reading Richard Finch's books...I like them for informative, easy reading. Anyway...

As has already been mentioned, you're looking at a $2,000+ investment for a TIG machine. I paid about $2,500 for my Lincoln SquareWave Pro unit a few years ago. It weighs almost exactly 200 lbs, so it's not really that portable. I've been very happy with it, but if I had it to do over, I'd have bought a Miller machine. Every welding professional with whom I've spoken recommends them 100% over Lincoln for ease of use and quality parts.

I have zero experience with inverter TIG machines, and no one I know uses one. I'm not sure if that's good or bad, but it seems a little on the negative side to me. I do know that many of the inexpensive machines don't have a high frequency module for arc ignition, so you have to "scratch start" - a troublesome technique that can easily contaminate your weld.

Avoid simple arc welders, AKA "buzz boxes" or "stick welders" Sure, they're cheap, but unless you're repairing farm machinery or doing heavy industrial work, they're nearly useless. You'll never get a good weld (for homebrewing) on stainless or aluminum with a stick welder. The only homebrewing application I can think of for a stick welder would be in welding a brew sculpture.

It sounds like your budget is really geared more toward a MIG unit. I own a Lincoln SP135+. It's VERY portable (~50 lbs), runs on standard 120VAC house current (you'll be lucky to find a TIG machine that doesn't require high amp 220VAC service), will lay a decent bead on properly prepared 3/16" plate steel in a single pass, and cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $500. Again, I'd rather own a similar sized Miller machine since most of them are a bit richer in features, but this one has served me well. I even had it shipped over to Korea and did some repair work (and/or customization) in a parking lot!

MIG welding is generally considered the easiest of the welding processes to learn. You simply set the machine up for the material you're welding, touch the protruding filler wire to your work, squeeze the trigger, and move the torch in the direction of the weld. With an hour's worth of practice, nearly anyone can lay a decent bead on mild steel. It's not too tough to MIG weld stainless, it'll just take a little more practice than welding mild steel, and you'll need to back gas or use flux on the backside of the weld to protect it. You can even MIG aluminum if you accessorize properly. If slag free welds aren't necessary, you don't even need to bring a shielding gas bottle to the job - you can just use flux core wire.

Whew...that was a lot of typing. To sum it up, I recommend a small MIG unit like the one I have. Feel free to ask questions, I love the subject!
 
Yuri_Rage said:
...Whew...that was a lot of typing. To sum it up, I recommend a small MIG unit like the one I have. Feel free to ask questions, I love the subject!

There we go, the $500ish range. When I saw someone typing about the $1700.00 type I just thought screw it, i'll hire someone to do stuff. Can't imagine how many keggles would cost 1700 bucks to weld up, heheheh! If I were going to become a welder by trade I'm sure that one is kick @$$, but for this simple hobbyist that there $500 model seems a more sure fit. Which models, old and new are about the same price range as the Lincoln SP135+? Should I look into used ones or would it be advised to just shell out the extra cash to get one I KNOW will work? Above people rave about miller but that's the 2k$ models. Is lincoln the way to go or is miller better in this price range? Is there any other good brands as well? Thank you very much for your imput Yuri, I trust your reccomendations. I just would like to know as much as i can when looking at anything more than $50 is all. :D
 
I have a Miller Matic 210 mig w/ spoolmatic gun (for aluminum) Its a work horse. I just picked up a SS spool that i'm going to try my hand at mig welding my kegs.

All i can say from my experence is that when buying expensive tool to begin w/ cheaping out will just make you spend twice the money.

Also cyberweld is a great place to buy. I picked my Miller welder there. The only thing you'll need to find is a local gas place. The place in my area delevers every thursday to my area so if i need new tips or wire or gas for welding/cutting its a phone call away.

But once you getting you welder find a place to get scrap metal so u can practice on the scrap before you weld on your final piece.
 
Honestly unless you are looking to do a bunch of welding, I would find an experienced welder to barter with. I'm sure you can find something to swap with him to get your keggle welded. Welding has a learning curve and learning to weld aluminum and stainless is even tougher from what I have been told.
 
Yuri_Rage said:
I see you've been reading Richard Finch's books...I like them for informative, easy reading. Anyway...

Yeah, Finch's Welder's Handbook was the first welding book I picked up. I'll admit it seems odd to use the term "weldor" to refer to one who welds, but when you visit the welding boards, it seems to be a common affectation.
 
For a quick comparison, www.weldingmart.com has the following welders:

Lincoln SP135T: $458
Millermatic 140: $632

They appear roughly equal in size and capability, but the Miller machine offers a couple of extra features including "Smooth Start" and "AutoSet."

I think you could be happy with either machine for the price range and type of work you describe.
 
Grimsawyer said:
There we go, the $500ish range. When I saw someone typing about the $1700.00 type I just thought screw it, i'll hire someone to do stuff. Can't imagine how many keggles would cost 1700 bucks to weld up, heheheh! If I were going to become a welder by trade I'm sure that one is kick @$$, but for this simple hobbyist that there $500 model seems a more sure fit. Which models, old and new are about the same price range as the Lincoln SP135+? Should I look into used ones or would it be advised to just shell out the extra cash to get one I KNOW will work? Above people rave about miller but that's the 2k$ models. Is lincoln the way to go or is miller better in this price range? Is there any other good brands as well? Thank you very much for your imput Yuri, I trust your reccomendations. I just would like to know as much as i can when looking at anything more than $50 is all. :D

But you understand that the $500ish recommendation Yuri made is for a MIG welder, not a TIG. There are no reliable TIG welders in that price range.

The SP-135 is not a current Lincoln model. Look at the 140T or 140C. For other good welders in the same class as the Lincoln, look at the Hobart Handler 140.
 
What I would do, if you are serious about spending $500+ for a machine, and getting into welding, is look around at your local tech schools and see if they have saturday welding classes. I was able to learn gas, stick, MIG, and TIG this way, but didn't learn stainless unfortunately.

Anyway the class was only like $200 for 10 saturdays, and the instructor was cool about people bringing in projects within reason. It could be that you could take a class or two, learn some welding skills, and use a good TIG machine at the school for your kegs if the instructor is okay with it.

I remember some guys bringing in a keg. I'm not sure what they were trying to accomplish, they were trying to weld a threaded fitting onto the side of the neck of the attachment that the tap hooks up to. I wasn't brewing at the time and didn't pay much attention.


Viktor
 
Yuri_Rage said:
know that many of the inexpensive machines don't have a high frequency module for arc ignition, so you have to "scratch start" - a troublesome technique that can easily contaminate your weld.

Yeah, screw that. I'd never buy or recommend a scratch start machine. I learned with HF start. HTP has a couple inverter TIGs, one scratch start, one HF start I believe.

I'm not sure about the 'harbor freight' vintage TIG machines, if they have HF start or not. Probably not.
 
vmpolesov said:
...but didn't learn stainless unfortunately...
If you learned to put a good weld on mild steel, you learned enough to weld stainless. It's really not that much more difficult than mild steel in terms of material properties and machine setup, you just have to be sure to protect the back of the weld with gas or flux.
 
Ah, I was looking at pictures of stainless false bottoms and realized 'i can make that'.

you see i actually have welded stainless, with a spot welder! piece of cake.

anything more advanced and i'm going to want to get that TIG welder i've had my eyes on.

But heck, maybe i'll just pick up some cheap stainless ware at the thrift store and use it for welding practice with my MIG (hobart 170). I've got argon. If I get to the point I feel I have skills maybe I'll advance to welding on a threaded fitting on a brew kettle with my MIG.

I'm still at Stage 1 (pre-hopped malt extract kit) though.
 
vmpolesov said:
I don't think you want that thing, it probably weighs 200+ lbs. I'd look into new lightweight inverter TIGs. I have never TIG'ed SS, just mild steel and Al at tech school.

That caused bier to come out my nose, my Tig machine weighs 867 pounds before adding the cooler and a 280 cu/ft bottle on the cart. Portable you bet as it's on casters with 140' of number 2 SOO cord. Not cheap I must add as back in 1991 I paid $4,200 for it but then it paid for itself with welding repairs for my company in side jobs. Best part I was paid in cach plus I deducted it off taxes as a tool, made more than I paid for it. The Mig machine back in 2002 cost $2,506 out the door but was free as my share of copper for the company was over $6,000. We cashed in over $58,000 in copper on one job. Yes I have had 11 different machines and brand names, Lincolns, Hobarts and Millers. Only Millers allowed in my shop, called "The Power of Blue". Check out the Millerwelds.com forum there is a question and answer section under "Ask Andy" a miller tech. Many welders on this forum are the best in the business. Cheers.
 
I am new here and this is my first post so excuse any stupidity in my noobieness...

Here's what I did in your situation. When I wanted to build my 3-tier keggle system I bought a used Miller Cricket Mig welder and took a night welding class held at my local Jr. High school.

I did not know a thing about welding. During the class we went thru brazing, gas, stick and tig. I can't tell you how much I learned and it was big fun. At the last part of the class the instructor gave us free riegn (sp) to use the equipment for the next three classes for any personal projects. I told him that I wanted to build my kettle, HLT and my MLT using the Tig setup - he fell outta his chair. Everyone else brought in gates, boat parts, mild steel and most left. He and I did all the work on my kegs for the price of a 12 pack of homebrew!

He worked the entire right over my shoulder making sure each weld was as perfect as *I* could make it.

Later I used my new (used) miller at home to build the stand.

The stainless work cost me nothing... you might try that option.

Mike
 
Welcome to the forums, Mike!

Sounds like you did it the right way. I'm hoping, when it comes time to build myself a sculpture, that my good buddy evanmars will lend a bro a hand and help me learn how to weld. My old man's got some equipment, too, so when the time's ready, I'll be all set. Probably the biggest thing holding me back is finalizing the design and scoring materials.
 
Thanks for the welcome...

Yea - I got EXTREMELY lucky - I have friends in the right places so I basically got most everything for free, the kegs, stainless, the steel for stand, the glass for sight gauges, the thermometers, the SS piping, etc, etc.

I only bought the burners, the pump (off EBAY) and some minor stuff. In fact I was calling this the EBAY brewery for a while as that was my biggest expense. When I started to build this setup I didn't want this thing to cost me an arm and a leg - and it didn't :mug:

I did quite a few batches, then got busy at work so it sat for like two years - I am now back at it with my first bre in a very long time in the fermentor. I am hear to learn - I have A LOT to learn.
 
mikeatfhc said:
Thanks for the welcome...

Yea - I got EXTREMELY lucky - I have friends in the right places so I basically got most everything for free, the kegs, stainless, the steel for stand, the glass for sight gauges, the thermometers, the SS piping, etc, etc.

I only bought the burners, the pump (off EBAY) and some minor stuff. In fact I was calling this the EBAY brewery for a while as that was my biggest expense. When I started to build this setup I didn't want this thing to cost me an arm and a leg - and it didn't :mug:

I did quite a few batches, then got busy at work so it sat for like two years - I am now back at it with my first bre in a very long time in the fermentor. I am hear to learn - I have A LOT to learn.

WELCOME BACK!!!! I don't think anyone ever dosn't have anything to learn. You probly know more than you give yourself credit for. And grats on your "Ebay Brewery"! Man I hope I have enough after the bills are paid to get a happy box(and tank) of electrical fun! :D
 
mikeatfhc said:
I am new here and this is my first post so excuse any stupidity in my noobieness...

Here's what I did in your situation. When I wanted to build my 3-tier keggle system I bought a used Miller Cricket Mig welder and took a night welding class held at my local Jr. High school.

I did not know a thing about welding. During the class we went thru brazing, gas, stick and tig. I can't tell you how much I learned and it was big fun. At the last part of the class the instructor gave us free riegn (sp) to use the equipment for the next three classes for any personal projects. I told him that I wanted to build my kettle, HLT and my MLT using the Tig setup - he fell outta his chair. Everyone else brought in gates, boat parts, mild steel and most left. He and I did all the work on my kegs for the price of a 12 pack of homebrew!

He worked the entire right over my shoulder making sure each weld was as perfect as *I* could make it.

Later I used my new (used) miller at home to build the stand.

The stainless work cost me nothing... you might try that option.

Mike

Mikes, that's a great little machine but be careful what you weld with it due to the 70 amp output, that 70 amps is at a 20% duty cycle which is easy to go over without intending to. Just be careful on thicker materials as a cold weld can be dangerous.

Owning a welder for a one shot welding project like welding kegs a person is better off paying a welder provided you have everything ready to weld.
I use my 350 Tig welding aluminum car and motorcycle heads besides other projects all the time and aluminum takes a lot of heat hence this size of machine.
Better to have the extra amps than not enough when needed. By the way I was the 4th owner of a Cricket years ago, a sweet machine as long as you stay within its limits, you'll enjoy it.
 
Thank you very much for the offer kladue, but I am getting a Tim Allen complex... Gotta have more tools. grunt grunt grunt. And I know myself. After I get this incarnation of my brewery complete I'm going to want to do something else to it. If I just get the tools to do it in the first place then I can tweak to my heart's content. However, if yer willing to show a novice some tricks I'd definately be game. I know I'm going to need more tools than just a welder to do what I want. What are other items I'd need. A mask, some thick leather mits(whatever they are called) maybe an apron of sorts and one of those long sleeve leathe jackets that has no back. An angle grinder(want one anyhow, my poor dremmel... hehe) maybe an orbital sander? What complimentry tools would anybody suggest to someone who is going to buy a welder?
 
Grimsayer,
Here is a list of tools to purchase:
4" angle grinder w/5/8" shank (Dewalt,Milwaukee, B&D)
3/32" thick cut off disks & adapter hub
1/8" thick cut off disk
1/4" grinding disks
Flap disk wheels
Hook&loop adapter
Blue & gray scotch brite pads
1/2" variable speed drill motor
1/16"-1/2" drill bit set
hole saw kit (5/8"-3")
UniBit kit to 1" hole size
Vise grip 4" fabrication clamps
Face sheild (jackson) with replacement shields
Huntsman 411P welding hood w/#11 glass
Leather work gloves
Leather welding gloves
Ear plugs

Rental tools:
110 Volt inverter type welding machine (90 amp capability)
Bottle of Argon
Portable band saw
 
lookin at portable band saws and i notice that some have an arm some you just freehand. Which one do I want?
 
I would shop around on Ebay, many slightly used Milwaukee bandsaws come up all the time. Look for a variable speed vs two speed then collect some spare blades in 18 and 24 tooth. Morse blades in the Cobalt will last longer and cut fasterand can cut stainless.
 
I got a MIG welder for my classic car restoration project and LOVE it. I found so many more things I could build and/or fix now that I have the MIG (With GAS).

Now, that is not even the same thing as TIG. I coudl not justify the cost of a TIG welder for what I want to do (plus I work at a tool and Die shop so I can just ask one of the guys to do the TIG welding in exchange for computer repair and whatnot.) TIG has so much more control and makes a much nicer weld, especially on AL and SS.

I'd recommend the MIG (with gas) for having around the house, but for making equipement for brewing, I'd have someone TIG weld your stuff, or, as the previous poster recommended, go to a class, and have FUN, and get your brew stuff welded!
 
Grimsawyer said:
There we go, the $500ish range. When I saw someone typing about the $1700.00 type I just thought screw it, i'll hire someone to do stuff. Can't imagine how many keggles would cost 1700 bucks to weld up, heheheh! If I were going to become a welder by trade I'm sure that one is kick @$$, but for this simple hobbyist that there $500 model seems a more sure fit. Which models, old and new are about the same price range as the Lincoln SP135+? Should I look into used ones or would it be advised to just shell out the extra cash to get one I KNOW will work? Above people rave about miller but that's the 2k$ models. Is lincoln the way to go or is miller better in this price range? Is there any other good brands as well? Thank you very much for your imput Yuri, I trust your reccomendations. I just would like to know as much as i can when looking at anything more than $50 is all. :D

I have a Lincoln 180C and it is pretty nice and my dad has a Miller Bobcat Which is ungodly. Basically Lincoln makes Nice welders but Miller is probably the best on the Market.
 
I have one of the older Lincoln Idealarc 300-300 TIG machines. It is the old transformer type that is still used in a lot of welding shops and has a lot of amps for heavy section aluminum welding jobs. It welds stainless a smooth as glass. It takes a lot of practice before you can control it good enough to make sanitary welds and I have been welding various types of metal with it for over 30 years and still feel very nervious about doing sanitary welds. If you are new to welding I would recommend giving your sanitary welding jobs to an experianced professional sanitary welder as he has a lot of methods to make your job a first class job (no inclusions and no thin spots). For boilers it is less important that a weld be a sanitary weld as you are going to sanitize the wort by boiling but for a fermenting vessel or piping it is super important to have no imperfections at all.
 

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