Belgian Golden Strong Ale Pink Elephant (Delirium Tremens clone)

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If corn sugar is good enough for Chimay, it's good enough for us. :)

Corn and cane both have 46 GUs so no recipe adjustment is needed.
 
jkarp said:
If corn sugar is good enough for Chimay, it's good enough for us. :)

Corn and cane both have 46 GUs so no recipe adjustment is needed.
Click to expand...

Thanks!

Now, what about beet compared to corn?
 
klamz said:
No, this is my first Belgian. It's not the smell that frightens me it's the taste. Tastes so funky it almost seems like it could never recover from it even after waiting so long in the secondary. Then again I did take a sample from the bottom 1 inch from the trub! LOL. I'll see how it is in the next 2 weeks. it's chilling at 39F. When you pitched your yeasts did you use the whole 11.5grams of the S-04. Could I have over pitched? is that ever a bad thing?
Click to expand...

From White Labs about WLP570:
"From East Flanders, versatile yeast that can produce light Belgian ales to high gravity Belgian beers (12% ABV). A combination of fruitiness and phenolic characteristics dominate the flavor profile. Some sulfur is produced during fermentation, which will dissipate following the end of fermentation."

You're getting the sulfur they're describing. Maybe it's a product of low fermentation temp? It should age out.
 
Hi jkarp or anyone else who has brewed a recipe like this one,

I just brewed a version of your Pink Elephant recipe. This is the highest gravity beer I've made so far. I scaled it to 5 gal and substituted in some pilsener LME to make a partial mash version. Before my regular sparge, I did a small sparge with ~150F water into preheated dissolved LME. This way the LME gets "mashed" a little more to make it more fermentable - I think the Jamil Show postcast on Saisons suggests doing this to make the extract more fermentable.
I pitched 1/2 of a washed Wy1388 yeast cake from a low-gravity belgian ale and added a packet of S-04. It fermented explosively for a few days. A thermometer on the outside of the carboy was reading 85F. After a week and a half, it's now at 1.02 and going very slowly.

So here's my question: The warm hydrometer sample tasted pretty bad with solvent-like alcohol and esters. How does this compare with your experience? Am I being impatient and just need to wait for it to condition longer, or do you think I might have over-pitched and fermented too fast/warm due to pitching 1/2 washed yeast cake in addition to the S-04?
 
Let it ride. Green Belgians taste exactly like that. It really took a good 2 months of conditioning for my Pink Elephant to hit its peak.
 
Well, you're right, after a month in primary the boozy alcohol flavor and solventy esters have dissipated. It tastes good , except...

... the fermentation has stalled at 1.018 and tastes clearly too sweet.

I've tried all the typical recommendations for restarting stuck fermentations (swirling to resuspend yeast, warming, etc. - believe me, I know, I had to coax my picky saison yeast to finish). But nothing seems to help.

I mashed low, even additionally "mashed" the extract I used for increased fermentability, and used a ton of sucrose, so I think its the yeast and not that the wort is less-fermentable.

I've seen other threads, and even Wyeast's or White Lab's website, say that it's good to add sugars gradually during the ferment instead of all at the beginning. Theoretically, the yeasts will adapt to simpler sugars and won't finish the more complex sugars of the mash, or something like that. Maybe I'll try that next time.

I can't stand sickly sweet high-gravity beers, to I'm going to try finishing it with champagne yeast.

I bought two 5g sachets of Lalvin EC-1118. Following the advice of another thread around here, I plan to make a starter and gradually add more of my unfinished beer to get the yeast accustomed to alcohol and the sugar profile of my unfinished beer. I hope this will shave 10 points off my FG. I hope.
 
I love this beer! I have brewed this recipe twice now:

The first time, I forgot to add the dry yeast! :) It happens. The smell was 100% DT. It lacked the complexity of DT, but was still awesome.

The second one is still warm conditioning (another 10 days from today). I used my kegerator and lagered it in the keg. It is spring now, so finding 76-78 deg was tricky: The keg is sitting behind my server rack where it stays 77-79 throughout the day.

This was my first attempt to warm condition in a keg. Any reasons NOT to do this or am I all good?
 
Quick question, I am wondering why it's only a week in the primary and then lagering right after that? I noticed someone else on here left it in the primary for 5 weeks, how did that one turn out? I thought that leaving it in primary longer was good because it allows the yeast to clean up byproducts that might impart off flavors.

Also, for the lagering. Does lagering serve any purpose other than improving clarity? Would it be better for me to primary for about 3, then lager for about 2 weeks and then keg it?
 
When scaling up to a 5 gal batch, will the yeast be fine to keep the same? A 1L starter of the WhiteLabs and the dry yeast should be good, correct?
 
wgentzel said:
Quick question, I am wondering why it's only a week in the primary and then lagering right after that? I noticed someone else on here left it in the primary for 5 weeks, how did that one turn out? I thought that leaving it in primary longer was good because it allows the yeast to clean up byproducts that might impart off flavors.

Also, for the lagering. Does lagering serve any purpose other than improving clarity? Would it be better for me to primary for about 3, then lager for about 2 weeks and then keg it?
Click to expand...

Well, a double pitch, plus the fact that Belgian yeasts work quick means a week is usually plenty, but a gravity check is always prudent. The byproducts and "off" flavors of Belgian yeasts are actually desirable in these beers.

Clarity is indeed the primary reason for lagering. These yeasts are pretty low floc and DT is normally pretty clear in the bottle.
 
jamiecady said:
When scaling up to a 5 gal batch, will the yeast be fine to keep the same? A 1L starter of the WhiteLabs and the dry yeast should be good, correct?
Click to expand...

I'd think with the double pitch, there's still PLENTY of yeast for 5 gal.
 
I brewed this over Thanksgiving weekend, and just tried it last week. It is fantastic. Nice smooth drinking beer with a mild spicy flavor. It has been a big hit with the visitors this past weekend.
 
I'm making this right now, but I went with a extract recipe instead and 5 gallons batch. I will share my recipe and update as follows.

1 liter yeast starter (24hours time, with 1 cup of boiled DME and 4 cups of water for a OG of 1040)
Yeast starter notes: don't use normal sugar, use the DME (Dry Malt Extract) so the yeast can train it's self to break down more advance sugars instead of simple sugars.
Yeast: WLP570 & S-04
Original Gravity: 1.073
Final Gravity: 1.012
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 7 (see notes)
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 14 @ 32 deg

Ingredients
-----------
6.6 lbs LME light Pilsen (two cans)
1 lbs of DME light pilsen
1.75lbs of beet surgar

Styrian Golding 2.0 oz, Pellet, 60 minutes
Saaz 1.0 oz, Pellet, 15 minutes
Coriander Seed 10 grams, Spice, 15 min
Ginger 4.0 grams, Spice, 15 min
Paradise 4.0 grams, Spice, 15 min
1tsb irish mosh 15min
yeast energizer 15min
yeast nutrient 15min

10 drops of anti foam agent
heavy aerate in fermenter

Instructions, bring to a fullboil, then start 60min timer then hold temp at around 200f to 215f for 60mins.

I'm currently at day 4 with this, so i will keep everyone updated. It OG'ed right at 1.072... I'm really hoping i can get this thing to get down to 1.006 in 7 days... I took the preparations for it to achieve that, for one. I had a massive yeast starter, gave it yeast energizer and nutrient then gave it a nice aerate on the wort before pitching. And all i have to say is WOW! this thing was fermenting like crazy for day 1, 2 and 3... It just started to die down, now i need to achieve the 1.006 FG to get 8.66%abv. We'll see what happens... But I think hitting that FG is crucial in 7 days then put it in lager mode for the 14 days followed by bottling/warm conditioning then kegging.

Notes:
Day1 to 3 no gravity rating, but this thing is GETTING SOME!
Day4: Gravity of 1.017@68f
Day5: Gravity of 1.016@68f
Day6: Gravity of 1.012@80f (I got a space heater and made a small boxed off area and heated the area around 80f til the beer got around 80f to 82f to hit the start preping for last FG points)
Day7: 1.012@70
Day8: 1.012@60f (I'm having trouble getting any lower... I'm going to wait a few more days, it's fermenting very slow right now)
Day9: I went and racked it in the carboy today then off to the fridge for lagering, It was pretty much done at 1.012. Ohh well, still good. It should be around 8%abv.
Day10: Clearing up in the fridge, you can almost see two separate layers now.
Day20: Racked into Corney keg and put on Co2
Day23: Starting to taste like a belgian trippel...
Day31: Drank this last night, amazing! And i'm sure it will only get better with time... funny thing is, I don't think it will last long!

Planned brewing schedule:
Day 1 to 7; hitting gravity of 1.006, using heat to around 82f during the last two days to get the FG.
Day7 to 21; Rerack into carboy, Cold condition lagering @32f to 40f in kegerator
Day22 to 36 Rerack into new carboy and let sit for one to two weeks of aging or bottle...
Then Keg for a few days and drink!!!

Day27ish pic
deleriumclone.jpg
 
I'm pretty much stuck at 1.012... It' won't go any lower, I think it may be from the extract recipe? Maybe the only way to attenuate that low is to follow the all grain time schedule?

I'm going to give it a few more days. I gave it some nutrient and energizer the other day, so i'm hoping its slowly fermenting out... We'll see...
 
I didn't taste it yet, I will try it out tonight when I get home... I'm going to start the lager cycle tonight when I get home if it appears to be done. It seemed like it was slowly going this morning.
 
I'm thinking about adding .75lbs more of beet sugar, that should OG at 1.078 and give me my 8.66%... thoughts? Or should I just leave it? I love stronger beers, so i'm tempted to...

Update: I just called it a day and carboyed it and threw it in the fridge at day9 with a FG of 1.012
 
I'm thinking about doing this next. I like the original recipe, but I had been thinking I'm going to follow it except...

So as to not shock my yeast, I'm planning on starting with just the wort from the mash. At first sign of fermentation, Ill throw in 1/4 lb of corn sugar, and then continue that once a day for four days, therefore spreading out the shock of sucrose additions to the yeasties. Anyone see a flaw in my thinking?
 
Nope. I do think the double-yeast pitch (effectively over-pitching) means the yeast won't have any issues chewing through all that sugar at once, but I also see no downside to your plan.
 
Update on how this one turned out for me:

I did a partial mash adaptation of jkarp's recipe. At first, hydrometer samples tasted awful - boozy with ketone/aldehyde flavors - but that is normal and it mellowed out after a couple weeks in the primary. Next problem was that the ferment stopped at 1.020, and it tasted obviously too sweet. I added Lalvin 1118 champagne yeast, which knocked off a couple of points. I let this one sit in the primary a long time (6 weeks?) trying to get the gravity to come down, but didn't notice any autolysis flavors or aromas.

Once bottled, it carbonated very fast, indicating that the yeast was active, so the high FG must have been due to the fermentability of my wort rather than the yeast. High carbonation and being served cold cuts the residual sweetness a lot, so it turned out much more balanced than I feared.

There is a clear alcohol presence, but not boozy, not unlike commercial examples of strong goldens and tripels I've tasted. The spices and Belgian yeast flavors play together well. Overall, to my tastes, it is less like Delirium and more like a spiced version of Duvel, or a less hoppy version of Piraat. A bit different from the Delirium I was shooting for, but nonetheless, I'm enjoying it. Thanks, jkarp.
 
Okay, I'm 48 hrs in and the krausen has started to fall. I forgot to add the S-04. Should I pitch it now, or is it too late? Thanks, B
 
Bard said:
Okay, I'm 48 hrs in and the krausen has started to fall. I forgot to add the S-04. Should I pitch it now, or is it too late? Thanks, B
Click to expand...

I don't have a direct answer for that, but I can tell you that I too forgot the S-04 when I first brewed this beer and it still turned out to be great. So, either way, you should find yourself in good shape.
 
Thanks for the response, MarkH. Guess the worst that could happen is S-04 falls to the bottom. Btw, I helped open the Galyan's Trading Co *RIP* in Louisville, KY. Made some good friends there. Cheers!
 
jkarp - thanks for all the info you've provided. I'm gonna try brewing this in a month or so (it'll be my fifth brew overall, and my first Belgian), and I have a few questions:

1) Do you rack to a secondary after the original 7d, for the 14d lager? Or are you lagering in the primary on all that yeast?
2) This one's a little off topic. I can bottle, but I'm fully set up to keg and prefer to do so. Do you forsee any problems with racking to kegs after lagering, hitting it with about 25# CO2 to seal the keg, and conditioning for the 3 weeks (or more?) at ~ 75F. Also, since I do 10g batches, any concern if one of my kegs of this sits at basement temps (~60F) for 3 months or more while I drink the other keg (yes, a long time, but I'll generally have 3 or 4 different kegs/beers on tap at one time).
3) How'd your DT do in the LHBS competition?

Thanks and cheers.
 
Gofastr1 said:
1) Do you rack to a secondary after the original 7d, for the 14d lager? Or are you lagering in the primary on all that yeast?
Click to expand...

I do everything in the primary. I never use secondaries except for barleywines and lambics.

Gofastr1 said:
2) This one's a little off topic. I can bottle, but I'm fully set up to keg and prefer to do so. Do you forsee any problems with racking to kegs after lagering, hitting it with about 25# CO2 to seal the keg, and conditioning for the 3 weeks (or more?) at ~ 75F. Also, since I do 10g batches, any concern if one of my kegs of this sits at basement temps (~60F) for 3 months or more while I drink the other keg (yes, a long time, but I'll generally have 3 or 4 different kegs/beers on tap at one time).
Click to expand...

I don't see a problem with any of this. DT ages quite well, I think.

Gofastr1 said:
3) How'd your DT do in the LHBS competition?
Click to expand...

Judges all gave it rave comments but scored it mid-pack as they thought it should have been in 18C instead of 18D. :rolleyes: I chalked it up to inexperienced judges.
 
Thanks for the lightening response, jkarp. As you were responding, I was creating my recipe, which led to one more question.

I'm AG, and have not yet made a batch with additional extract/sugar in the kettle, so as a noob to this, I'm not sure how to scale your 3g to my 10g. Should I just directly scale up the beet (or corn) sugar to 3.33 lb., and then scale up the Belgian Pilsener to give me the 1.072 target OG at my mash efficiency?

Thanks again!
 
Gofastr1 said:
Thanks for the lightening response, jkarp. As you were responding, I was creating my recipe, which led to one more question.

I'm AG, and have not yet made a batch with additional extract/sugar in the kettle, so as a noob to this, I'm not sure how to scale your 3g to my 10g. Should I just directly scale up the beet (or corn) sugar to 3.33 lb., and then scale up the Belgian Pilsener to give me the 1.072 target OG at my mash efficiency?

Thanks again!
Click to expand...

Yup, everything scales linearly. Just multiply everything by 3.33 for 10 gal.
 
Here ya go, scaled by BeerToolsPro...

Pink Elephant
18-D Belgian Golden Strong Ale

Size: 10 gal
Efficiency: 93%
Attenuation: 75.0%
Calories: 273.87 kcal per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.082 (1.070 - 1.095)
Terminal Gravity: 1.020 (1.005 - 1.016)
Color: 2.17 (3.0 - 6.0)
Alcohol: 8.1% (7.5% - 10.5%)
Bitterness: 35.6 (22.0 - 35.0)

Ingredients:
21.67 lb Pilsen Malt
3.33 lb Corn Sugar
2.5 oz Styrian Goldings (6.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
1.67 oz Saaz (5.0%) - added during boil, boiled 15 min
 
So I've converted this recipe to 5 gallons as follows:

Recipe: Delirium Tremens
Style: Belgian Golden Strong Ale
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 6.41 gal
Estimated OG: 1.072 SG
Estimated Color: 4.1 SRM
Estimated IBU: 26.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
11 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 86.27 %
1.25 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] (60 min) Hops 20.9 IBU
0.83 oz Saaz [4.00 %] (15 min) Hops 5.1 IBU
0.15 oz Ginger Root (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
0.15 oz Seeds of Paradise (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
0.42 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 lbs 12.0 oz Cane (Beet) Sugar (0.0 SRM) Sugar 13.73 %
1 Pkgs Belgian Golden Ale (White Labs #WLP570)
1 Pkgs SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04)


Mash 90 min at 149






My question is, doesn't this recipe call for quite a bit of Seeds of Paradise? In the 5 gallon version I'll be using .15oz/4g however most resources I've read say that it's a very potent spice and 1g for a 5 gallon batch is enough.

Also I've seen in multiple sources that you only need to boil for 5 minutes. Thoughts?
 
Cool, thanks for confirming.

DT is one of my faves and I can't wait to brew this. All of the ingredients come tomorrow!
 
I just racked this into the keg and......damn it tastes good!! I will have to compare them side by side but it tastes like I how I remember DT tasting. My OG was 1.075 and FG was 1.010. I primaried for 3 weeks and cold crashed for 2 weeks. Came out really clear!! Thanks for the recipe!! Al
 
Just an update......I kegged and force carbed this beer. I served it at a party when the beer was almost 6 weeks old. It was AMAZING!!! It is definetly one of the best beers I have brewed. I will have to get a bottle of DT to see how it compares.
 
Brewed this yesterday for a 5 gallon batch. We over sparged and ended up with a 6 gallon batch but some how we over achieved our efficiency and still nailed the OG at 1072. Mashed for 90 min following the original mash sched posted in the thread. Pitched a huge starter with WL570 and cultured yeast from a DT bottle and Safeale 04. We immediately put a blow off tube on it and glad we did. Started to bubble 2 hours after pitching!

Can't wait to share this with friend on my BDAY in April. More notes to come as well as final Picts.
Thanks for the great recipe and tips in the thread.
 
Swig,

Be sure to let us know how it turns out and if you had and troubles during your brew session with this great beer...

Very interested to trying this one
 

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