Saison Recipe Advice?

I would like some feedback on the spice additions. Particularly the fresh naval orange zest. Too much? Too little?

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Sassy Sally
Brewer: Jerry Pritchett
Style: Saison
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
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Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 7.25 gal
Estimated OG: 1.070 SG
Estimated Color: 4.1 SRM
Estimated IBU: 27.5 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.0 %
Boil Time: 70 Minutes

Ingredients:
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Amount Item Type % or IBU
8 lbs 8.0 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 68.0 %
1 lbs Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 8.0 %
1 lbs White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 8.0 %
2.00 oz Hallertauer [3.80%] (70 min) Hops 27.5 IBU
1.00 oz Strisslespalt [4.00%] (5 min) (Aroma HopHops -
2.00 tbsp Navel Orange Zested (Boil 0.0 min) Misc
6.00 gm Ginger Powder (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
12.00 gm Seeds of Paradise (crushed) (Boil 10.0 miMisc
2 lbs Candi Sugar, Clear (0.5 SRM) Sugar 16.0 %
8.90 gal Austin @ 50% Home RO Water
1 Pkgs Belgian Saison (White Labs #WLP565) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: My Batch Mash - Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 10.50 lb
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Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 4.00 gal of water at 156.1 F 144.0 F 90 min
Recirculate & SpargAdd 1.30 gal of water at 195.5 F 155.0 F 20 min
Mash In Add 3.60 gal of water at 190.2 F 168.0 F 0 min

Ferment at 75° until finished. Bottle condition for 3-6 months at 60-65°.

Im not sure what spefically "zested naval orange" is, but i have had great results with dried bitter orange peel (about an ounce per 5 gal.)

This link takes you to a great clone of Ommagang's Henepin which could give you some ideas:

http://webtrolley.org/mivastore/mer...Wine&Product_Code=Rep.oct.2002&Category_Code=

Check my Saison recipe in the recipe database.

I've brewed it 4 times with great success with only mild changes (black pepper added to a batch, strawberries, raspberries).

Be careful with WLP565, I have had really crappy attenuation with it (~60%), but I racked my last saison onto a pacman yeast cake from another beer and it went further, so the sugars weren't the issue. Ferment warm, real warm (80*F +)

ColoradoXJ13 said:

Be careful with WLP565, I have had really crappy attenuation with it (~60%), but I racked my last saison onto a pacman yeast cake from another beer and it went further, so the sugars weren't the issue. Ferment warm, real warm (80*F +)

Click to expand...

I have also had fairly low, although not as bad as 60% with it.

If possible, I culture yeast out of Ommegang's Hennepin Saison bottles and it's worked fantastic for a number of my brews.

You're going to get a ton of "spice" character out of the WLP565. Adding grains of paradise may be overdoing the "peppery" note. I've seen recipes using WLP550 with spicing similar to yours. Never used orange zest in a beer, but know from cooking with it (in marinades mostly) that a little citrus zest can go a long way.

WLP565 is a strange beast. It loves it hot and works really slow toward the end. I usually pitch it in the low-to-mid 80s and let it go 7 to 10 days in the mid-to-upper 80s. Secondary is at 70-75F for 2-4 weeks. I average around 75% att. with it. Once bottled I usually condition for 6 to 8 weeks at 70-75F then move everything to the cellar (60-65F) for another month.

Would some of you recommend a different yeast?

...I did forget to mention that I love the flavor of that yeast...so it is a tough call. I am going to continue brewing with 565, just going to make sure I get a starter with some pacman or other yeast going beforehand, then dump a bunch of my saison into the starter to get it acclimated, then dump it back into the saison after racking....I work in a lab though, so doing all this is relatively easy for me.

I'd say with an OG of 1.07 (my last saison was 1.071...although it was actually an IPA that I did with 565) you may have trouble getting it down below 1.030 (where mine stopped), it is down at 1.016 now after pacman-ing it.

I promise to play with this strain more though, I will try what I mentioned above, and also just try pitching 565 and pacman at the same time and see what happens....I LOVE the flavor.

I've had saisons stop around 1.020 and they taste fine. A little sweet isn't bad in a light refreshing drink like this.

As I said, I use yeast from a commercial brewery when I can. Saisons (at least in the US) are almost all bottle conditioned and have a good bit of yeast sludge that works very well. I just pour the sludge directly from the bottle into the starter and get er going a few days ahead to make sure the yeast is building up. I always keep a tube of 565 on hand for when the starter screws up.

At 1.07, you've made a very hefty saison. I'm sure you could drop that candy sugar a tad as well. I use only .75# in my recipe. I'm thinking that using sugar as 16% of your total fermentables might be way too high (and expensive when you go to the LHBS).

Putting this in my brewsmith calc, it estimates that it will stop around 1.020 anyways based on standard yeast attenuation for 565 - and that's assuming it's decent, but with all the problems we've seen so far, I can see yours stopping around 1.026-1.035.

You're also a tad low in the color, but not by much. You can try exchanging a small bit of your clear candy sugar for amber as well. I use (iirc) .25#

I would say that on a five gallon batch you would be alright with adding the zest from a whole orange. I just did a Saison and used one whole orange and one grapefruit. I wouldn't go more than about a teaspoon on any of the spices in a five gallon batch. I have my recipe posted in the data base of you want to check it out. I used just about all the spices you could think of, I just racked it to the secondary it fermented out to 1.012. I second the hot fermentation, as close to 95deg as you can. I had to put mine up in my attic to get the temp up on it. Also you may want to add a few more specialty grains for some more color and aroma.

Cheers