Side-by-Side to Fermentation Chamber Build

The challenge arises because side-by-side fridges (at least these kind, not Sub Zero or other top end brands) have only one compressor. All the cooling is done in the freezer and then the air is just allowed to flow into the fridge part through vents to keep it cool.

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I've been thinking about this... using two Love controllers, a heater like you've got, and a 120mm fan. In my case, I'd want to lager in the freezer side and ferment ales in the fridge side. Do you see any glaring issues with this:

1 - Install single stage Love controller hooked up to compressor with probe in freezer side, will always be set to lager temps.

2 - Add insulation to fridge side (pink sheets often used for ferm chambers), seal up any vents that I find.

3 - Cut 120mm hole between the two sides, install 120mm fan with pressure-opening baffle of some sort. Add vent hole with same baffle.

4 - Install dual-stage Love with probe in fridge side. Cold trigger will turn on 120mm fan, hot trigger will turn on heater just like yours. Will always be set to ale temps.

Thoughts?

I have thought about that idea a lot because many people want to try it. Here is what I have come up with:



It is the exact same idea you had, except I would route a tube fromt he bottom of the freezer side to the top of the fridge side. This way, the colder air will not want to "spill" into the fridge side.

If you do it please make a build thread with lots of pics. Many people want to use your idea!

I like the tube idea, as that would get ride of the need for the baffles. Two tubes could be used, one with the fan and one without so there would be a vent, too. If both went from the bottom of the freezer area to the top of the fridge side, the temperature gradient should keep any air from moving until the fan kicks on.

I do plan to try this, but admittedly I am not too sure when. If everything works out, maybe by the end of the summer. I'll start checking CL for cheap/free side by sides, I guess.

Purchased a new kitchen fridge and today the old KA side by side is mine for dissection in the garage. It's a 1997 model with plastic walls and not metal as the OP's design. My ultimate goal would be to fit my 15 gallon inductor tank and stand inside which requires removal of the entire dividing wall including the front piece that contacts the door seals. I need to somehow keep that piece and make it movable and replaceable after wheeling the tank inside. Any thoughts on how to do that?

I thought about removing the center post as well. I think if you want to dot hat,t he best way to keep the seal in tact would be to put a stop plate on one of the doors. In other words, one of the doors would have a plate attached that allowed the second dorr to seal to it, the first door would be closed first, and the secnd door closed second to engage the sealing plate.

Does that make sense to you?

Boerderij_Kabouter said:

I thought about removing the center post as well. I think if you want to dot hat,t he best way to keep the seal in tact would be to put a stop plate on one of the doors. In other words, one of the doors would have a plate attached that allowed the second dorr to seal to it, the first door would be closed first, and the secnd door closed second to engage the sealing plate.

Does that make sense to you?

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Yes it does - some of the newer french door refrigerators have a spring loaded plate that pops out of the way when you pull the doors open. You can open either side first. Hopefully my DIY skills or lack of them will let me get this done.

Using the wiring at the beginning of the thread, could I just use twist caps for the splices instead of the terminal block?

<------ knows nothing about wiring

yes you could use twist locks just fine. The terminal black is just a bit neater, the big box stores have various sizes of terminal blocks for about $10.

This is beautiful BK!

I have been trying to convince the SWMBO that we need a new fridge so I can do exactly this with the old one. It isn't a side-by-side but I still want to open it up by removing the shelf between the fridge and freezer sections so it becomes a single space.

If I can build a chamber like yours I can start brewing Lagers!!

-Tripod

smellysell said:

Using the wiring at the beginning of the thread, could I just use twist caps for the splices instead of the terminal block?

<------ knows nothing about wiring

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I used push on connecters from Home Depot, different sizes in a package for $1.58. The wires pushed into them perfectly.

Has anyone done this with a "top-freezer" model refrigerator? I have a decent-sized old one I could use (maybe 22 cu. ft.?), but I have no idea what is in the panel that separates the fridge from the freezer compartments. If it's just insulation (as in BK's side-by-side fridge) I would think cutting it out would work fine in a top freezer model as well. I'd just rather not destroy the fridge if it definitely won't work for some reason...

Thanks to BK for an inspiring thread!

I'm sick of fluctuating fermentation temps, so I just bought a LOVE TSS2-2100, with the intent to build a ferm chamber like this one. Thanks, Boerderij.

I am thinking of doing a conversion similar to the one you diagramed for cold on one side and warmer on the other (without cutting out the divider). My intent would be to use the cold side for pre-cooling/pre-carbonating cornies and/or lagering and to use the warm side to control ale fermentation in the summertime.

Can this be accomplished with one love controler that is set to come on to cool down the cold side (compresser) and set to come on to run a fan to cool the warmer side with a 120mm fan blown through the tube?

Any help would be appreciated on this. If I do this, I will certainly post a build thread.

Today I just scored a free side by side from Craigslist. I got the Love controller for a Christmas present. Unfortunately there is no circuit diagram and while I was able to find the owners manual online it didn't have a wiring diagram either. The Model # is a Whirlpool ed25sm

I have attached a picture of the model sticker. Any help with finding the diagram would be greatly appreciated. I would like to plan this project out a little more before I jump into wiring it up.

Sorry the image is up side down. It's after midnight now and I'll just have to go with it.

Forbein11 said:

I am thinking of doing a conversion similar to the one you diagramed for cold on one side and warmer on the other (without cutting out the divider). My intent would be to use the cold side for pre-cooling/pre-carbonating cornies and/or lagering and to use the warm side to control ale fermentation in the summertime.

Can this be accomplished with one love controler that is set to come on to cool down the cold side (compresser) and set to come on to run a fan to cool the warmer side with a 120mm fan blown through the tube?

Any help would be appreciated on this. If I do this, I will certainly post a build thread.

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I just saw your post. I really like that idea. Any luck with getting more info on how to make it happen?

I wish I had more info about the side by side dual zone idea. But I haven't made one. I really think it will be as simple as the above diagram. If I were building it, I would use two single stage LOVE controllers just so I could always see the temps in both sides of the unit.

Good luck finding the wiring diagram, you may have to contact a service dealer or something.

I'm working on the unit now. Got some help from an electrician at work and think I can do it with just one dual stage controler by bypassing the thermostats. No fan needed. I should be done by next weekend, this weekend if I am lucky. Will post when I see how it goes. Gettign a little frustrated now as I'm not an electrical guy.

Have you measured ambient air temperature in there when it's in heating mode and you have your thermo measuring ferm (liquid) temp?

I tried using a small space heater as well, and when I had the thermo measuring liquid temp, ambient air temps would reach 120+ before liquid temp would reach cutoff (64F with a 2F differential). I felt that was too hot so I switched to air temp for the thermo and though the space heater cycles a lot more and I had to set the cutoff a few degrees higher than ferm temp to get the proper liquid temp, it worked well.

I'm thinking of trying a reptile heater and see if I get better results when the thermo is measuring liquid temp.

I am thinking about doing something like this, except, being greedy, I want 3 compartments at different temps (ale ferm compart, lager ferm compart, and corny cold storage compart) . I have little electical wiring knowlege and do not want to mess with it. So, what I was thinking about is marrying together BK's side by side fridge fermentor trick-out with a few ideas from his really cool keezer/glass cabinet plans to create something like this:

(1) get a cheap/free large CraigList side by side fridge.

(2) Instead of completely ripping out the center wall, only rip half out from the ground up to a height that will fit corny kegs and a middle shelf.

(3) create a shelf across the middle on a wooden bracket that sits flush with the center wall. Now you have 3 compartments (1 large compartment on the bottom where the cold air comes in for storing lagering cornys and 2 side by side compartments on top).

(4) insulate the bottom of the middle shelf and rip out the door moldings and replace with something flush/smooth that will rest against a gasket on the side edge of the middle floor to create an air-tight barrier between the lower compartment and 2 upper compartments when the fridge doors are closed.

(5) in each of the 2 upper compartments on opposite sides drill 2 holes to insert 2 large tubes with 120mm computer fans glued on top of each tube. attach the so that in each compartment 1 tube goes to near the bottom of the lower cold compatment and blows air into the floor of the compartment above. the other tube goes from the middle floor to near the top of each compartment to blow warm air down to the lower compartment. As others who originally thought up of this type of system have noted, the idea is to blow cold air in near the bottom of each upper compartment and recirculate warmer rising air back into the lower compartment, with the fans controlled by thermostats.

(6) get 2 cheap house A/C-heater battery run digital thermostats. Wire the fans to the thermostats fan control connectors (power source for fans are spliced wall warts from cell phones, etc). I seen from someone else using this method that you can easily solder out the on-board thermisters on these cheap house thermistats, solder on long wires to the board in their place and then re-solder the thermisters onto the wire to allow you to attach the thermister to your fermentation vessel. Set temp on upper left chamber (which is above the cooling unit on what was the freezer side and will be colder) to your desired lager ferm temp; set the temp on the upper right chamber to your warmer ale ferm temp.

(7) plug the fridge into one of those temp controllers that in turns plugs into an electrical socket. place the temp probe in the lower compartment and set for someting like 29-30 degrees to lager your cornys and provide to cold air source for upper compartments on demand. This controls the cold compartment with no electrical wiring needed.

I am thinking that at this point it would be finished with very minimal DIY skills and little electrical wiring skills. If the frige is large enough, you could ferment up to 4 beers at a time ( 2 in each compartment) and store a a bunch of cornys. Has anybody thought about or tried doing it this way? Any logic/design flaws here that come to mind before I try something lilke this?

Awesome idea! I think that sounds really cool :rockin:

Great! Since you have experience with this, it gives me some confidence to try it out. I originally envisioned doing this on top of a chest freezer, but my carpentry skills are pretty basic and it seem intimidating. When I saw your thread, I figured it would cut out a lot of the carpentry/insulation issues (plus where I am at it seems like cheap fridges are easier to get on CL than chest freezers). Now, I gotta convince the SWMBO...

Legaleagle:

If you find good sources for the pieces for your build (battery operated thermostats etc.) I would love to hear about it. I posted early in this thread HERE about having trouble finding my wiring diagram. After contacting a few service providers and directly to the manufacturer I've concluded I'm not going to get my hands on the wiring. Thus I'm apprehensive about taking on the wiring. Your approach seems more manageable.

I'm looking forward to Pics and details of your build.

Southpaw - well all it is right now is an idea (lifted from the ingenuity and hard work of several other folks) and a plan. My biggest hurdle right now is convincing the SWMBO to let me put a 2nd fridge in our garage. Gotta bide my time until there's a toy she really wants and work a trade off.

As I envision it, there is not much wiring to deal with. Cheap thermistat's for house a/c-heater uses are plentiful (most have a AA battery backup if your power goes out; in my case the batts would be the only power, replaced as needed) - they can be had for $30-$40 each. Then its just a matter of getting your hands on some 12v wall warts from old electronic equipment laying around and splicing the wires to the power supply of the thermistat and connecting some computer fans (I happen to already have 2 from dead server box) to the fan control connector on the thermistat - easy. The hardest wiring would be locating the thermister on the thermistat's electronics board so you can solder it out with a solder pen and re-solder it to long extension wires to reach your fermenting vessel. That's all the wiring.

I'm thinking of going with your idea but just make the freezer side the side for chillin cornies and crash cooling carboys and the refrigerator side for fermenting ales. One thermostat and one ranco controller are better for my budget.

If you mounted the thermostat within the refrigerator side could you forgo "locating the thermister on the thermistat's electronics board so you can solder it out with a solder pen and re-solder it to long extension wires to reach your fermenting vessel" since the thermostat would be reading the actual temp of the ale fermentation side? I maybe way off here let me know what you think

Southpaw - well first off, this is all just ideas and plans right now, so I cannot speak from actual experience. With that caveat, it seems to me that that you can put one of those cheapo aquarium sticky thermomter strips on the side your fermentation vessel to measure its temp. You could then drop the thermistat temp to below your target fermentation temp (I'd would guess something like 8-10 degrees lower when fermentation is very active, less as the fermentation activity and resulting heat reduce). Thru trial/error I imagine you will be able to zero in on where you need to set the thermistat temp to get your fermentation vessel to a certain temp within a few degrees variation. The trade off I would think is that you gotta pay more attention to your fermentation (and open the fridge door alot more) and adjust on the fly as opposed to setting it and leaving it, along with more temp swings depending on how much attention you do pay to making adjustments. I'd guess it would work pretty well without the thermister extension, which is really more for convenience than any anticipation on my part that it would make that dramatic of a difference in the final product.

Got a question about those fridges with the fridge on top and freezer on the bottom (I think they are called "French Door" style fridges). Does anyone know if there are there freon or electical lines running inside the shelf that seperates the freezer from the fridge? I know that on side-by-side fridges, there is nothing inside the wall seperating the fridge & freezer; wondering if its the same deal with bottom freezer models. I wanna be able to rip that bottom shelf out to make a fermentor.

legaleagle said:

Got a question about those fridges with the fridge on top and freezer on the bottom (I think they are called "French Door" style fridges). Does anyone know if there are there freon or electical lines running inside the shelf that seperates the freezer from the fridge? I know that on side-by-side fridges, there is nothing inside the wall seperating the fridge & freezer; wondering if its the same deal with bottom freezer models. I wanna be able to rip that bottom shelf out to make a fermentor.

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This might get you in trouble as I Sawzalled one apart that had a R12 leakout failure within the fridge exterior walls so not repairable a total loss, it also had cooling lines between the top and bottom compartments I sawed thru and exposed. We kept the compressor with everything else for future replacement parts.
KB; i'll have to rethink and save this 7 year old side by side fridge with the doors off it sitting outside under a tarp airing out. The renters were heavy smokers is why I replaced the stinky fridge, you've resparked my intrest in saving it vs trashing it thanks. The center divider wall and doors sealing was my main issue for not chopping into it in the past. Like you posted a little light Dremel surgery exploring what's hidden inside the divider wall first. White roof flashing sealer woild waterproof any exposed open cell foam insulation. This can be the fermenting cooler with me only needing a keezer for the family room. I'll make space in the shop for this side by side as all my storage space areas are maxed out.

BK, what was the CF of this fridge? How is she holding up for you? I am looking for something like this for Hawaii.

artguy said:

Has anyone done this with a "top-freezer" model refrigerator? I have a decent-sized old one I could use (maybe 22 cu. ft.?), but I have no idea what is in the panel that separates the fridge from the freezer compartments. If it's just insulation (as in BK's side-by-side fridge) I would think cutting it out would work fine in a top freezer model as well. I'd just rather not destroy the fridge if it definitely won't work for some reason...

Thanks to BK for an inspiring thread!

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Yes, I am interested to find out if this can be done as well...does anyone know? I don't want to pass up a good fridge that isnt side by side if I can do it just the same with the other style fridge with freezer on top.

fatman said:

BK, what was the CF of this fridge? How is she holding up for you? I am looking for something like this for Hawaii.

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It was a 27 cu. ft. fridge. I used it as a deep freezer for about 6 months until it died. Good for fermentation and lagering, bad for deep freezer Oh well.

I transferred the components to a new smaller fridge for my new smaller setup.

I will likely redo this project when I up my system volume again down the road.

Has anybody tried the dual zone side-by-side fridge with any success? I have just picked up a 90's Kenmore that will fit a 15.5 sanke perfectly in the fridge section, and a tall 7.75g sanke in the freezer section. I'm trying to see if I can ferment/lager in one section and serve kegged beer in the other.

Thanks

I've been doing it for quite a while now. I keep my freezer side at 40F and I keep my fermentation side at 65F. I just use a computer fan in the original tunnel that connects the two sides.

Do you use a temperature controller to activate the fan when the temperature reaches a certain high temperature?

Correct, i'm using a BrewTroller loaded with FermTroller firmware. It controls each side independently.

Here is my build thread on it, I haven't updated it in a while.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/old-fridge-turned-computer-controlled-fermentation-chamber-125277/

I've done the side by side as well. Below is the build thread for it. Best of luck. I usually either serve or lager in the freezer side and ferment in the fridge side. Has worked out very well for me. If you go this route and have any questions, feel free to fire away.

Wow, that brewtroller setup is fan-freaking-tastic. I think it's a bit out of my league though, I don't have much electrical experience.

I've got a Love Tss2-2100 on its way, and I need to track down a wiring diagram for my particular model.

Keeping the CO2 tank outside the freezer is a great idea. I think Forbein11 and myself have very similar refrigerators, I can't thank you enough for the level of detail in your post.

Small Question

The amana after you cut out the center wall and built the wood shelves and left the wiring alone.
Would that now be basically considered a 25 sq ft refrigerator and maintain a temp of lets say 40 degrees?
What Im looking at is a aging chamber also. Looks like a dozen+ cornys.

I'm not sure, I never ran it without the controller. I suppose if you manipulated the built in thermostat to its hottest setting, it would likely keep the whole space above freezing, but I have no real idea, just conjecture.

I am glad some people are finding use for side-by-sides. I think they offer a lot of advantages. Plus, you can find them CHEAP!

dogtailale said:

Small Question

The amana after you cut out the center wall and built the wood shelves and left the wiring alone.
Would that now be basically considered a 25 sq ft refrigerator and maintain a temp of lets say 40 degrees?
What Im looking at is a aging chamber also. Looks like a dozen+ cornys.

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I tried It so far so good. Although while I was gutting mine I found out it is a 22sqft not a 25

Took out 85% of the wall left about a foot up top. Its not finished yet no wood shelve yet. Need to cleanup ruff edges, get some foil tape,+ + +
Any ways 8pm yesterday 6 cornys 60ish degree water were placed in unit, ambient air 60dg to 52dg today7am 41degrees. Thermostat set at 1.0 on the scale of 1. 2. 3. 4. 5.

I just wanted to confirm that the love TSS2 comes with the temp sensor right?