Tart Cherry Cider?

Has anyone tried this? Other than Pomegranate, Tart Cherry is perhaps the strongest and most complex juice I have ever tasted. I took a gravity reading of some Knudsen Tart Cherry juice and got 1.055. I'm wondering if I simply poured some juice into a carboy and mixed in some yeast and yeast nutrient and let it go what would happen.

At first I thought this might be exorbitantly expensive but then I found this deal:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004M0Y8T8/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

That works out to 2.875 gallons of tart cherry juice for <$39. I've done a bit of reading and found that cherry ciders are almost always blended with apple juice as a base prior to fermentation. I could probably get 2.5 gal of 100% apple juice for $20 or less, mix the two and get 5 gallons of finished cider. I am very comfortable with that price point.

A couple of questions:

Has anyone here done a tart cherry cider?

What kind of apple juice should I use? I've heard a blend of sour, bitter and sweet apples works the best. Perhaps that doesn't matter here as they are only providing the base, much like two row in beer.

Finally, This product: http://www.brownwoodacres.com/tart-cherry-juice-concentrate-quart-32-oz.html Claims to make 2 gallons worth of juice and is only $17. I'm worries that, even though this is concentrate, the OG will be too low after it is stretched. Has anyone here made cider from concentrate and if so would you recommend it?

My guesswould be that pure cherry juice might be a bit acidic for ideal.

I've had good success back sweetening with cherry juice and cherry concentrate.

Tart cherry juice concentrate gets very weird when it's fermented out. Sort of like cherry cough syrup, without the sweetness. It ages ok, but when I added a small bottle to my cherry wine, it took a very long time for it to be drinkable and I was very sorry I added it. I thought it would add a depth of flavor, but it wasn't very good in the end.

amcclai7 said:

I've done a bit of reading and found that cherry ciders are almost always blended with apple juice as a base prior to fermentation.

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Cider = Apple. Every single Cherry Cider has Apples in it. If you only ferment Cherries then you are making Cherry wine.

Search Sour Cherry Cider on this forum you will find recipes. Typically you want to make cider (only apples) and then you want to back sweeten with Cherry juice. I have read if you ferment with them almost all of the flavor goes away.

I make tart cherry cider all the time. I use the Knudsen 100% juice, along with some whole montmorency cherries, and am more happy with the combination in achieving a "the whole cherry" profile. I aim for 3/4 apple, 1/4 other fruit. the "problem" is that tart cherry is very strong, and can quickly dominate a cider. People love it but it can struggle in competition. Fruity acid bomb, basically. I'm not new to this, and don't for a minute think cider should taste like apples, but fruit ciders really should have some semblance of apple/other fruit balance. So if I'm competing I end up needing a very appley cider to go with my strong cherry character.
not competing? Again, people will love it, even up to about 1/3 cherry. I might aim for 1/5th cherry juice on your first attempt and have a little extra cherry juice on hand to add later if you feel it needs more.

I started a cherry cider using apple-cherry concentrate diluted to the directions. It was very tart, and I thought it would mellow out. I wish I would have checked the pH as the yeast had a tough time working even with the addition of Fermaid-K and DAP. My second addition of apple-cherry concentrate completely stalled the yeast and I am now working on 3/4 gallon of cherry cider vinegar. What happened to me may never happen to you, but I thought I should post this anyway. Good luck!

I currently have a cranberry cherry that's ready to bottle. What do you guys use to backsweeten for more cheery flavor? Concentrate? I'll see if they have just cherry at the store.

Apple-cherry concentrate- Treetop brand doesn't taste like apple at all, just cherry. If you are going to back sweeten with something fermentable, you must stabilize your cider first.

mwilcox said:

I make tart cherry cider all the time. I use the Knudsen 100% juice, along with some whole montmorency cherries, and am more happy with the combination in achieving a "the whole cherry" profile. I aim for 3/4 apple, 1/4 other fruit. the "problem" is that tart cherry is very strong, and can quickly dominate a cider. People love it but it can struggle in competition. Fruity acid bomb, basically. I'm not new to this, and don't for a minute think cider should taste like apples, but fruit ciders really should have some semblance of apple/other fruit balance. So if I'm competing I end up needing a very appley cider to go with my strong cherry character.
not competing? Again, people will love it, even up to about 1/3 cherry. I might aim for 1/5th cherry juice on your first attempt and have a little extra cherry juice on hand to add later if you feel it needs more.

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The juice you are referring to is the tart cherry juice, correct? So if I was going to make 5 gallons I could just mix 4 gallons apple and 1 gallon tart cherrty juice, add yeast (what kind do you use?) and nutrients, and ferment? Also, how long until this cider is drinkable?

amcclai7 said:

The juice you are referring to is the tart cherry juice, correct? So if I was going to make 5 gallons I could just mix 4 gallons apple and 1 gallon tart cherrty juice, add yeast (what kind do you use?) and nutrients, and ferment? Also, how long until this cider is drinkable?

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yes, 100% Tart Cherry juice. many major retailers carry it in quart bottles. it CAN be ready fairly quickly. my go-to yeast is Cote des Blancs, but I mostly ferment "plain" cider with it in the winter, very cold, no nutrients.

something I like to do in the summer is use 3711 and make fun, spritzy, tart, off-dry fruit ciders. cool room temp ferment. it'll always be yeastier than the wine yeasts, but nothing like wort fermented with the same yeast. Tart cherry works well for this, though I prefer raspberry or peach (I use some mango which people seem to think tastes more like peach than peaches do). I have a dry product I'm happy with in a month or so, and back-sweeten slightly and force carb. obviously you'll need to stabilize if sweetening in a bottle.

mwilcox said:

yes, 100% Tart Cherry juice. many major retailers carry it in quart bottles. it CAN be ready fairly quickly. my go-to yeast is Cote des Blancs, but I mostly ferment "plain" cider with it in the winter, very cold, no nutrients.

something I like to do in the summer is use 3711 and make fun, spritzy, tart, off-dry fruit ciders. cool room temp ferment. it'll always be yeastier than the wine yeasts, but nothing like wort fermented with the same yeast. Tart cherry works well for this, though I prefer raspberry or peach (I use some mango which people seem to think tastes more like peach than peaches do). I have a dry product I'm happy with in a month or so, and back-sweeten slightly and force carb. obviously you'll need to stabilize if sweetening in a bottle.

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Wow I love 3711. I use it all the time in my sasions. P.S. if you prefer dried yeast as I do then the Danstar Belle Sasion yeast is 3711. At least it's 99% identical to it. I might try this then. Finally what kind of apple juice. Can I just buy generic stuff from the store so long as its free from preservatives?

I use whatever juice is cheapest, and belle saison.

pricelessbrewing said:

I use whatever juice is cheapest, and belle saison.

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So that's two votes for belle sasion yeast now. Does it impart sasion like characteristics into the cider?

Honestly not too sure, maybe a slight spice, but I've back sweetened both batches I've used it with so that probably covers any saison flavors expected. I like it mostly because it finishes quickly, and ferments to about 1.003, and doesn't mind warm temps.

amcclai7 said:

Wow I love 3711. I use it all the time in my sasions. P.S. if you prefer dried yeast as I do then the Danstar Belle Sasion yeast is 3711. At least it's 99% identical to it. I might try this then. Finally what kind of apple juice. Can I just buy generic stuff from the store so long as its free from preservatives?

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I've used Belle Saison only once on cider, coincidentally it was tart cherry, and it was much more phenolic than I'm used to. But that's one only data point; perhaps it got hot. YMMV. If someone says it's the same as 3711, OK.

As for juice it depends on what my goal is. My friends LOVE cherry-forward cider, competitions not so much. So personally I create a cherry-dominant cider, and then blend back in a "plain" cider to taste depending on who is going to be drinking it. Single batch apple juice? Louisberg (not the refrigerated sorbated stuff) probably for this, with pectic enzyme, and maybe add some frozen apple juice concentrate after stabilization for my apple character to help balance the strong cherry.

I am in process of a few different ciders at present. As I mentioned earlier my first attempt at cherry cider was a bust. My current berry-blend, and cranberry apple are coming along nicely. I am working on a Trappist yeast-ed hard cider, hoping for a clone of Crispin Saint by using the dregs of their cider. I may try a Saison yeast hard cider batch before summer is over. Next time I try to make a cherry forward cider, I will use plenty of nutrient and keep an eye on the pH.