Lemon Cardamom Wheat...something's missing...

Hey everyone, So I was hell bent on brewing something with Cardamom...and I did it. But I just tasted a sample from the primary 5 days after brewing and well...something seems to be missing. The beer just seems to be too...Mild.

Recipe as follows:
Grains etc.
6 oz Carapils
4 oz Honey Malt
1 lb Wheat DME
3 lb Wheat LME
3 lb Pale LME

Hops - 13.2 IBUs
0.3 oz Northern Brewer 60 min
0.9 oz Golding, East Kent 25 min
0.9 oz Golding, East Kent 5 min

Misc
1.0 Fresh Lemon zest 5 min
0.5 oz Coriander seeds 5 min
12 Green Cardamom seeds 10 min

"Citrus Soup"
I used the soup method I've read about it many recipes on this forums
added the zest and pulp of:
5 lemons
1 lime
1 orange
To water at 170 degrees and let it cool. Then added all of it (in a mesh bag) to the primary.

Yeast
WLP001 - California Ale

So, I may have gone a little overboard with the cardamom, learned my lesson there, But there just seems to be something missing, The lemon doesn't have that citrus zing I was looking for, and instead comes off more like sweet lemon, both in the aroma and flavor.
I guess it could also be the fact that I used a lot of Floral Hops in the flavoring and aroma additions.

Anything I can dry hop with that would give this brew more...Character?

I was thinking two things:
1. Dry hop with a spicier hop variety.
2. Dry hop with more lemon and a good amount of grapefruit to add that citrus zing I wanted.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Was the sample carbonated? Carbonation tends to exaggerate flavors. If I think about messing with a batch, I'll bottle a sample with priming sugar and a good amount of yeast. In a week or so it'll carb up, and you'll get a better idea how the finished beer will taste. Usually a beer that tastes 'meh' in the fermentor tastes just right once it's been chilled and carbed.

No..I know what you're talking about...but this is a bit different from the other uncarbed samples I've taken from other beers.
I think I used too much floral hops with the lemon and cardamom, and I'm looking for something to balance out those flavors. Would a dry hopping achieve that or maybe some other fruit?

"12 Green Cardamom seeds 10 min"

Click to expand...

holy mother of GOD that's a lot of cardamom. When this thing is cold and carbed, its gonna be a cardamom bomb. I'd leave this one alone, and adjust the flavors next time after you've drank a bunch of this one.

Yeah...not gonna lie. The primary ferment is done but I swear the smell is getting stronger ever day...Lesson Learned hahaha.

But is there really nothing I can do to save this beer?

Well lemme put it like this, how do you feel about having 5 gallons of excellent marinade for Indian-style chicken?

I f*cked up a beer by putting in about 4 cardamon pods in, plus some other spices. A buddy of mine made a Belgian Trippel with 12 pods. He figured he'd let it age out. Its been about 2.5 YEARS NOW and he still says its like drinking a spice cabinet

And I do remember thinking that my beer wasn't too strong in the primary, but that stuff seems muted when the beer is warm and un-carbed. For all spices, you need to get the beer to serving temps before you can taste the true flavor in the finished beer.

As with all beers, let it ride, bottle it and see if you like it. Maybe this is the beer that you've been waiting for your whole life.

And if not, well then it looks like we've got another member of the Cardamom Club! Then it will be your turn to tell people "NOOO! just use ONE FREAKIN POD in your first spiced beer!"

Hahah, I like that, The Cardamom Club.
I was hoping that cardamom would mellow with age but...guess not lol.

I'm thinking about putting it in secondary with a bunch of Grapefruit and Lemon, and then dry hopping with an earthy spicy hop.

But as a write this, The thought just occurred to me to maybe balance out that sweetness with something tart?
Maybe some hibiscus flowers I picked up a year ago while on vacation that have this excellent aroma but can be quite tart when boiled.

Any opinions?
I figure I've got nothing to lose.

Lazersgopewpew said:

Maybe some hibiscus flowers I picked up a year ago while on vacation that have this excellent aroma but can be quite tart when boiled.

Click to expand...

HAHAHA Ok man at this point you are going to accuse me of making this up, but sadly, I am a proud member of the Hibiscus club too! I accidentally made a wine cooler once while trying to make a low-ABV hibiscus flavored honey beer. It was pretty terrible. Very thin and water, with a pink color and a very faint fruity note. Pretty much a Bartle's and James wine cooler from the 80's. :fro:

Look, at this point, you should just try whatever you feel like, but adding flavors to cover up that cardamom is going to be very, very hard. On one hand, you could just blend this batch into non-spiced beers, but if your beer is as strong with cardamom as I suspect it is, you'd have to add like 9 parts non-spiced beer to 1 part cardamom beer, and even then you'd have a blended beer that would still have a distinct spice character.

I'd just suggest you bottle it as-is, and see how you like it down the road. There's no way to tell how to adjust the flavors of a spice beer when you are using ingredients for the first. time.

Hahaha, So the Hibiscus is out, Yeah I was thinking about doing a beer with them a month ago, but when I tasted how tart they can be, that idea quickly went away.

I think I'll end up bottling some as is, and mess around with the rest, see what I can do with it.
I'll keep the as is bottles as a reminder next time I try to brew with cardamom hahaha.

Thanks for all the help. I'll update on how it turns out.

I think hibiscus is only good in beers where that tart flavor is going to help, so maybe Saisons or Berlinerweiss. Maybe some hibiscus in a fruit beer that needs to tartness to accent the fruit. I dunno. I guess it has more potential than that godawful cardamom but I'll never use either again

So, I decided to dry hop with roughly 2 ounces of this Chamomile blend tea I bought a few weeks ago.
Here's a link:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005ATIDX2/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
It's a blend of Chamomile, Tulsi, rosehips, lemon myrtle, orange peel & lemon peel.
Basically its has a strong, spicy chamomile smell/taste.

I blended some tea with a sample from the primary, and the spicy chamomile really seemed to give the beer some character, instead of just covering up that mildness created by the lemon and cardamom.

To be honest, I'm not expecting this to turn out great. Seeing this more as just a few lessons learned haha. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Just in case anyone was wondering, this turned out kinda interesting.
The beer has a strong cinnamon aroma (from the tea blend I believe).
For the first few weeks, the beer had a strong taste of cardamom and a dry citrus taste (from dry hopping with grapefruit).
Interesting enough the cardamom taste really mellowed out after a few weeks, and is barely detectable, the citrus though is as strong as ever.
Lesson Learned.