Comments on Crystal 10 in an American Lager ?

Hey guys what do you think of this recipe ?

AG 5-Gal, 1.057SG, ~3 SRM, ~23IBUs

7.25# American 2-row
2# rice flakes
.5# Crystal 10 ( ??? )

1/2 oz Sterling leaf @7.8% - 60 Minutes
1/2 oz Liberty Pellets @ 3.7% - 30 Minutes
1/4 oz Liberty Pellets @ 3.7% - 5 Minutes

Trying to go for an American type Lager style, but I'm thinking of using a 1/2 pound of Crystal 10 instead of CaraPils/dextrine to give the beer a little bit of body and better head. I'm kind of hoping for just a touch of color, some extra body and head, and a little bit of sweetness - but I still want the beer to finish nice and dry and crisp. Basically I want the extar body and mouthfeel of a Carapils, but I also want to give the beer just a little color and sweetness. Not going for a big effect, looking for just enough to make it slightly different than an American type rice-lager.

I'm using Saflager S-23 yeast.

Am I on the right track with the Crystal 10 or not ?

Also, I'm not overdoing it am I ? I'm not looking for a drastic effect, just enough of a touch of color and sweetness to make it unique. Definitely want to keep it subtle.

Help me out.

I put a 1/2 lb of 10 in my Vienna Lager and it turned out great. It stayed very low in the profile. However, I used ale yeast and cold conditioned it for awhile after fermentation as opposed to actually lagering it. Not sure if that would make much of a difference.

That should be nice.

I've also had a real nice European-style pils that had a pound of Vienna for a little bit of character - a bit of warmth, I'd describe it as - that I liked a lot. Just another possible avenue.

I'd consider omitting the crystal. If you do use it, don't go above 3% of the total grist.

Glibbidy said:

I'd consider omitting the crystal. If you do use it, don't go above 3% of the total grist.

Click to expand...

If I just omit the Crystal then do I substitute something else to give it a bit of color and some body ?

As I understand it, Crystal will have some dextrines that won't ferment similar to CaraPils so I'd expect to get some extra body and head retention, but I also want a bit of color and a bit of sweetness - just something to set it apart from the 2-row/Rice combo which I expect to be pretty neutral.

If its an American Style lager you are after get rid of the crystal and use some flaked maize or do a cereal mash with some grits or polenta. The corn will give you plenty of sweetness and a bit of color.

Reverend JC said:

If its an American Style lager you are after get rid of the crystal and use some flaked maize or do a cereal mash with some grits or polenta. The corn will give you plenty of sweetness and a bit of color.

Click to expand...

Maybe get rid of the Crystal and Change the Rice to Flaked Corn ?

How about some Munich or Aromatic?

Glibbidy said:

How about some Munich or Aromatic?

Click to expand...

What, you don't like my suggestion of a little Vienna?

Glibbidy said:

How about some Munich or Aromatic?

Click to expand...

Well I had thought about some Light Munich, but I'm kind of cautious about the Aromatic. I've used maybe a 1/4 # of that in a Lager before and it was way more aroma and flavor than what I am trying for this time.

Harsh. Vienna will work just fine. Go easy so you can keep the color within range, if that's how you roll.
I like Munich. I put it in just about everything. Apprehension with the aromatic is not unreasonable.
You could get really freaky with 1% Vienna, 1% Munich, and 1% Wheat.
Part of my malt signature is using very small amounts of a very different malts to always keep'm guessing.

Disclaimer: *My opinions here are reflecting the style of lite american lagers*


You can keep the rice and add the corn as well.

IMHO crystals, munich, vienna, aromatic, all of the moderately kilned malts are not appropriate for the stlyle.

Now if you were making a california common/steam beer then yeah a bit of munich or vienna (which i used recently in one) would be to style.

With that said, if you do use any of the previously mentioned malts you will still have a very good beer im sure.

OK, you've got me convinced - no crystal or specialty malts.

I was trying to stick to about 20% or less adjuncts though, and I wanted it to be rice rather than corn because I've been wanting to try brewing with rice in an all grain batch for a while, and also because I've had beer with corn before and I don't really think I like it as well.

I believe I will stick to lager 2 row and rice, or maybe split the 2 row up a bit so that some of its continental pilsener 2 row. I'm guessing I can do that and edge the malt flavor up a bit without getting to far outside the style range for American Lager.

Thanks for all the comments and advice.

I got to the brew store to get my ingredients and I had a change of heart...

Since I've already got a big yeast cake of Saflager S-23 going in one of my other beers that I'm going to rack to secondary today, and since grain doesn't cost all that much, and since I've got an extra fermenter sitting here unused... I just decided to do two beers, one with a bit of Crystal and one without.

Here's what I'm getting ready to start mashing..

Beer #1
9.25# American 2-row
.5# Crystal 10

1/2 oz Sterling leaf @7.8% - 60 Minutes
1/4 oz Liberty Pellets @ 3.7% - 30 Minutes
1/4 oz Liberty Pellets @ 3.7% - 5 Minutes

Beer #2
7.25# American 2-row
2# rice flakes
.5# CaraPils

1/2 oz Sterling leaf @7.8% - 60 Minutes
1/4 oz Liberty Pellets @ 3.7% - 30 Minutes
1/4 oz Liberty Pellets @ 3.7% - 5 Minutes

Decided to cut back on the Liberty just a bit, partly to make it more approachable to non-homebrew drinkers and also cause I wanted to order in whole ounces and not have leftovers.