Is my crush too fine?

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msa8967

msa8967

mickaweapon
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The last batch of brew I did with my barely crusher ended up with a medicine after taste that I have read may be from having too fine of a crush. I bought my barely crusher used and don't have the actual directions as to the best way to set the gap for a good crush. Thus, I am hesitant to use the crusher (and brew more beer) w/o having someone else's opinion.

1. Does this crush look too fine?

2. If so, can anyone recommend a proper gap setting I should move to?

3. If the crush is not too fine then can anyone suggest what else might have resulted in this medicine after taste?

I have read that "over sparging" might result in this but I don't know if this means my sparge water may have been too hot or that I used too large of a volume of sparge water. I do use BeerSmith for my calculations and have an average efficiency of around 75%.

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Looks fine to me too. I don't think you can have too fine a crush unless you start getting stuck runoffs. I set my Barley crusher at 0.0028" with no problem.

I also thought a medicine taste is usually from a slight bacterial infection too?
 
Medicinal is generally described as a clove or band aid type taste. If that is true it sounds more like a chlorine issue to me. What type of water did you use? Was it treated by chlorine? did you do anything to remove chlorine? Do you clean/sanitize with a chlorine (Bleach) solution?
 
brettwasbtd said:
Medicinal is generally described as a clove or band aid type taste. If that is true it sounds more like a chlorine issue to me. What type of water did you use? Was it treated by chlorine? did you do anything to remove chlorine? Do you clean/sanitize with a chlorine (Bleach) solution?
Click to expand...

I use reverse osmosis water (by Culligan) that I buy and fill in 5 gallon reusable bottles. Never had any problem with it before and I have not had a stuck sparge yet. I don't treat the water with any brewing salts but I did by some 5.2 stabilizer to try out to see if that would fix the problem. There were no visible signs of any infection in the 3 brewing buckets I used for fermentation and beer from all three buckets has this taste. I don't plan on using the buckets for brewing again just to be safe.
 
Crush is OK. It looked like several are not cracked at all and the embryo chunks are pretty big. My barely crusher is set at factory .035 and it's finer that that. That's definitely not fine enough for husk smashing tannin extraction. IMO.

I myself would not go .028 without conditioning the malt first. Which I did for a few batches.
 
The .028 is a scale of inches basicly 1.0 is an inch and .10 is one hundred thousands of one inch and .010 is ten thou and so on. The average human hair from your head is .003, which is three thou of one inch. my guess is that you mean .028, which is 28 pieces of one broken down to a thousand pieces.:cool:
 
What is your crusher set to? ON the ajustment knobs there should be a line. I think factory is in the 12 o'clock position. Many adjust to the 1 o'clock position. Where is your line...
 
The line on the side with the crusher arm is set at 11 o'clock and the line at the opposite side is set at 1 o'clock.

Is there anywhere close to other brewer's settings?

Should both sides of the crusher have the same setting (11 o'clock on both) or both have opposite settings (11 and 1 o'clock)?

Will moving further from 12 o'clock increase or decrease the gap setting?

Sorry if these are basic questions but I bought the unit from a HBT member and it didn't come with instructions.
 
Go to Sears and get a set of feeler gauges and test the gap on both ends of the rollers... The gauge set is CHEAP money and something you'll want to have. Check the gap periodically (different brew days) to make sure it's holding. Or you can check it after you run some grain through it to make sure it's not moving on you.
 
Golddiggie said:
Go to Sears and get a set of feeler gauges and test the gap on both ends of the rollers... The gauge set is CHEAP money and something you'll want to have. Check the gap periodically (different brew days) to make sure it's holding. Or you can check it after you run some grain through it to make sure it's not moving on you.
Click to expand...

What range (maximum thickness) of feeler gauge should I look for? Any need to go beyond 0.035?
 
You'll find them in the automotive section of the tools area. They have a wide range and you can use more than one to get the setting. Such as a .019 and .020 to get .039"...

This is the one I have...
 
They will look like this and if there is no .035 they you can "stack" the .025 and the .010.

feeler guages.jpg
 
msa8967 said:
What range (maximum thickness) of feeler gauge should I look for? Any need to go beyond 0.035?
Click to expand...

I got my feeler at auto zone.
Not unless your getting stuck. Finer grind is fine if that's what you want and can sparge with but don't shrewd the husks. Eff increase. Im pretty sure righty tighty. Factory should be 12:00, 12:00.
 
Stevo2569 said:
I got my feeler at auto zone.
Not unless your getting stuck. Finer grind is fine if that's what you want and can sparge with but don't shrewd the husks. Eff increase. Im pretty sure righty tighty. Factory should be 12:00, 12:00.
Click to expand...

Shreading the husks was my initial concern that may have lead to extraction of tannins from the husks. I would prefer to use slightly more grain and wider gap if needed to avoid this problem (if the shreaded husks are the source of the medicine taste.)

I have been using this at the settings of the previous owner which is why I asked if the position of the line on the dial should be opposite on each side of the crusher. (11 and 1 o'clock versus 11 and 11 o'clock versus 1 and 1 o'clock.)
 
Medicinal taste would be from using bleach and not rinsing well enough, using too much Iodophor for a no-rinse solution, using oxy-clean and not rinsing really well, etc.

Forrest
 
KuntzBrewing said:
Oxygenation and/or chlorination cause medicinal flavors, since ur using ro water id say oxygenation
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I try to be very careful and not move the brewing buckets after I have pitched the yeast until it is time to bottle. In order to bottle I have to carry the buckets back upstairs from the basement. I know that this may contribute in some manner to oxygenation but could there be any other sources that may contribute to oxygenation that I am not thinking of? The beer was not transfered to a secondary and was kept in the temp range of 65-68 F for the 5 weeks it was in the primary.

Thanks for your reply.
 
Austinhomebrew said:
Medicinal taste would be from using bleach and not rinsing well enough, using too much Iodophor for a no-rinse solution, using oxy-clean and not rinsing really well, etc.

Forrest
Click to expand...

I use Starsan (not idophor) for my sanitizer which I have read should not affect the taste of the beer if bottled wet and used at the proper concentration. I am wondering if I did not rinse the buckets enough the last time they were cleaned prior to using them. Just in case this was the problem is there any way to remove any remaining oxyclean or bleach that was not rinsed off well from the inside bucket surface at this point or should I just retire these buckets and order new ones to use?
 
Perhaps this video will help:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh-jgVlE6kE&feature=related]How to Adjusting the Barley Crusher Grain Mill - YouTube[/ame]
 
Oxidation is supposed to give a cardboard flavor to the brew, not medicinal. As long as you're not sloshing the brew around in the bucket as you carry it up, after removing the lid (letting air in) you should be fine. There should still be enough CO2 covering the brew to protect it from careful transport.

Try using PBW instead of oxyclean for a few batches. It's easy to get a complete rinse of PBW.

You might want to try bottled water, that's not store brand, for a few batches. If the filters they use were towards the end of their life, for the batches you bought, they could be letting more through. Or they could just be giving a casual filtering and calling it RO water. Unless you get it tested, you won't know. You could also invest in an under sink water filter system. You can get them for under $100 that will filter out high "9's" for what's in the water. I have one of those and the water from it [basically] has no flavors to it. Best way to describe it is 'wet'... :D Mine is a two cartridge system, with a larger micron first, followed by a smaller one (2 micron then .5 micron)...
 
What Forrest said is the most true in my eyes. Not rinsing or having too much no-rinse can give that taste. My early bottled beer had that and by letting my bottles and bottling equipment dry fully it solved the problem. Too much sanitation can be a problem.

Your crush looks great, don't worry about it. Some will say not enough fines, others perfect. The grind is personal preference that many a good beer has been made from many a different grind.
 
Golddiggie said:
Oxidation is supposed to give a cardboard flavor to the brew, not medicinal. As long as you're not sloshing the brew around in the bucket as you carry it up, after removing the lid (letting air in) you should be fine. There should still be enough CO2 covering the brew to protect it from careful transport.

Try using PBW instead of oxyclean for a few batches. It's easy to get a complete rinse of PBW.

You might want to try bottled water, that's not store brand, for a few batches. If the filters they use were towards the end of their life, for the batches you bought, they could be letting more through. Or they could just be giving a casual filtering and calling it RO water. Unless you get it tested, you won't know. You could also invest in an under sink water filter system. You can get them for under $100 that will filter out high "9's" for what's in the water. I have one of those and the water from it [basically] has no flavors to it. Best way to describe it is 'wet'... :D Mine is a two cartridge system, with a larger micron first, followed by a smaller one (2 micron then .5 micron)...
Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply to my problem with a medicine aftertaste in one of my brews. I had not thought of the source of the RO water possibly being the problem. This last batch of water came from Walmart and I would not be suprised if quality control on this was not a priority.

We do have a water filter on our kitchen sink for drinking water in additon to a water softner for the entire house. The faucet filter system we have is very slow at producing large quantities (like 1-2 quarts at a time) so I am thinking of putting in another filter system that might work faster.

1. Do you think this new filter system should be installed in front of (before) the water softner or after (behind) the softner?

2. What type/size/brand system should I look for that will filter enough large quantities water for brewing? Often if I drain 1 gallon out of our current filter system in the kitchen the flow will be very very slow for quite some time and this really irates my wife so I am hesistant to try to use what we have in the collection of 8 gallons of water.

3. Is there anyway someone could post a picture showing their setup for this process so I have an idea of what to look for?

thanks for the detailled replies.
 
I always rins off "no rinse sanitisers" with water from my hot tap no problems so far but I have only been brewing 43 years so far....
 
msa8967 said:
I use Starsan (not idophor) for my sanitizer which I have read should not affect the taste of the beer if bottled wet and used at the proper concentration. I am wondering if I did not rinse the buckets enough the last time they were cleaned prior to using them. Just in case this was the problem is there any way to remove any remaining oxyclean or bleach that was not rinsed off well from the inside bucket surface at this point or should I just retire these buckets and order new ones to use?
Click to expand...

Just rinse them really well. Taste the water going into your beer. do a batch with no ingredients and taste the water along the way and see where the problem is. It is not the ingredients so rule them out.

Forrest
 
Some people say the crush looks good. Somebody said it could be crushed a bit more. I say run it through a second time, if you are still having an issue once the adjustment is made on the mill.
 
The BC I had, for a short time (before getting my MM2-2.0) was set to .039" gap from the factory. That's what it should be if you line up the notches in the adjustment knobs and on the frame. That's normally a good baseline setting to go with. A few batches at that gap and you can decide if you want to start messing around with it.
 
Picked up a set of feeler gauges on my home from the local home brew club meeting so I will be checking out the settings later this evening. All four beers I brought tonight were well received (which is a first for me since these brewers mean business when it comes to their own brews). Thus, I agree with many of the opinions received in this thread that the gap size on my barley crusher may not be the source of the problem with this batch that finishes with a medicine taste.
 

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