The "EXACTLY 5 gallons" obsession?!?!

What's the deal? Is it really that important to have EXACTLY 53 and one-third bottles of beer? Is it so important that you REALLY feel the need to overfill the fermenter, boil longer (or shorter), dilute the beer by topping off, or use some other means to achieve an exact volume? Is there something magical about that last 1/3 bottle? Is it good luck to have 5.33 bottles more than two cases? I don't get it.

Beer is a natural product. It is created with some degree of repeatability and precision through the application of several sciences. In the end, it is susceptible to mother nature's whims. Sometimes there will be a little more trub, sometimes less. Sometimes the yeast will reproduce a little more, other times less. There are variables outside our control. Let the beer happen and be happy with the results. There is no need to get concerned about a few bottles more or less, or about a slightly underfilled keg.

RDWHAHB!

I agree. However, I also personally plan my batches slightly larger so that I end up with five gallons of finished product.

I worried about that for my first three batches... I am sooooooo over it now... especially since I keg, it don't matter none...

I think it's a combination of recipes being made for a 5 gallon volume and the fact that most homebrew fermenters are based on 5 gallons. So more than 5 means more blowoff and less than 5 is more wasted headspace.

I know why recipes are usually figured around five gallons. There has to be a plan. The better the plan, the better the product. I just don't know why it's SO damn important to have EXACTLY 5 gallons when the whole process is over.

Yuri_Rage said:

I know why recipes are usually figured around five gallons. There has to be a plan. The better the plan, the better the product. I just don't know why it's SO damn important to have EXACTLY 5 gallons when the whole process is over.

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If you are not anal about your numbers it is no big deal, but if you must hit those gravities it is important(at least that what it seems like to someone who doesn't give a rat's ass about the numbers)

I suppose it is for some, I just make sure I have enough for trub loss, sampling, and a nominally full keg.

I'm extremely anal about the brew day numbers. I don't think you're getting my point. After the brew day is over, much control is relinquished to nature. Let nature happen. Let the trub fall where it may, and rack above it.

Yuri_Rage said:

I'm extremely anal about the brew day numbers. I don't think you're getting my point. After the brew day is over, much control is relinquished to nature. Let nature happen. Let the trub fall where it may, and rack above it.

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Yeah, I know what you're saying. It seems like many people want to top off in their secondary to get to that magical five gallon place, regardless of how the beer tastes now, or the OG/FG. It just seems like they "should" have 5 finished gallons. I think that tends to be new brewers, though, who don't just shrug it off. I've actually asked people if they want exactly 5 gallons of watered down beer, or 4.25 gallons of good beer, and it seems like they can't decide!

I cannot explain why (other than example and habit), but I did it until I went AG. Not like a gallon, instead a quart here or 2qts there. For me it wasn't about amount of beverage, but just a developed habit supported by the offered consistency in the process. 6.5 into the kettle, 5.5 into the fermenter, 5.0 into the keg.

After going AG when I undershot the volume, I couldn't bring myself to top off.

+1. I never understood that. As long as I have beer, I'm happy.

Since I switched to doing 5.75 gallons, I usually end up right at 5 gallons in the keg, sometimes under, sometimes I have to fill the growler and drink flat beer. But no matter what I'm always happy at the end of the day knowing I have one more keg of happiness waiting to be tapped.

I've asked this question before but I don't think I've ever got a definitive answer. I remember getting equations and formulas that explained dilution and explanations of the need to adjust ingredients to account for more water and a bunch of confusing stuff. I have yet to get more than 4 gallons when all is said and done. This last batch totaled 41 and 1/4 bottles. Are you boiling with more water or just adding more top off water?
For example...I usually boil three gallons and add two to top off the fermenter (or a bit more). Should I continue to boil 3 gals and just add more water to top off? Say top off to 6 gals?

Thanks

+1

I think it is more an issue with newer brewers...brewers who don't have a pipeline.
I'm more about hitting the numbers in terms of whatever OG/FG my recipe calls for, rather than whether or not I'm a few bottles shy of 2+cases...Because with everything I brew, I have more than enough beer...

Very good post though YURI!!!!!!

i do jamils method from brewing classic styles...collect 7 gallons...boil down to 6...put 5.5 in the fermentor after trub...and after racking to secondary or keg you will have a full 5 gallons

I am arguably the most anal person on this board - heh - or at least I could be. It is important that I recognize this trait on a daily basis, sometimes hourly. This said, I pretty much have my brewing procedure to an exact science that can be easily repeated, but I have to let go once the boil is over and trust nature to run its course. I simply try to collect as close to 11 gallons as I can per batch so I can fully fill two 5 gallon kegs after fermentation.

I aim for 5.5 gallons going into the primary but because the amount of trub varies I dont end up with exactly 5 gallons, I almost always get between 49 and 53 12oz bottles. the only part of the process where I worry about volume is for calculating priming sugar, if I think my volume will be way off from 5 gallons I rack to my bottling bucket and plug the final volume into beersmith to adjust my priming sugar.

As long as I get 7 gallons pre-boil I'm happy. I usually end up with just over 2 cases.

Brewno said:

I've asked this question before but I don't think I've ever got a definitive answer. I remember getting equations and formulas that explained dilution and explanations of the need to adjust ingredients to account for more water and a bunch of confusing stuff. I have yet to get more than 4 gallons when all is said and done. This last batch totaled 41 and 1/4 bottles. Are you boiling with more water or just adding more top off water?
For example...I usually boil three gallons and add two to top off the fermenter (or a bit more). Should I continue to boil 3 gals and just add more water to top off? Say top off to 6 gals?

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Because of racking losses, a 5 gallon batch will give you 4-ish gallons for keg/bottle. I have found in my system planning a 5.75 gallon batch gives me 5 gallons in the keg or so. The recipe is created for 5.75 gallons, which means more grain and hops. Scaling recipes is a piece of cake in BeerSmith.

I never worry about volume. I'm disappointed when I have too little, but I don't boil more when I have too much. I tailor my recipes for what I want and if I don't hit my numbers I live with the final product one way or the other. I figure it gives me incentive to tweak my process so that what I do is more predictable.

I really don't care. But I've been coming up short ever since going AG. I boiled 6 gallons down to 4.5. I guess I need less heat or more wort.

But really I don't care about #s. After I got my equipment dialed into around 80-85% lauter efficiency, OGs really aren't that important to me and I rarely check FGs as I usually primary for at least 3 weeks.

About the only #s I care about now are fermentation temp #s. I'd like to get 5 or 10 gallon batches because I'll have a little more beer and save some propane.

Mike

But if I'm a half gallon short, that's like, FIVE BEERS.

What if it's the best beer ever and you never are able to recreate the batch perfectly ever again?!? You are going to wish you had those five beers! LOL

+1 to what Revvy said. I would be so much more stoked if I could hit 70+% efficiency and only end up with 4.5 gallons, then 5 gallons at my current 62% eff.

I plan for 5 and usually end up with excess (90+% eff) but even back when I didn't, add water to hit your target gravity if necessary, not your volume. It's very simply quality over quantity.

Coastarine said:

(90+% eff) .

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You suck! You suck! You suck! You and your cross service bisexuality is disturbing anyway.

Again: I am buzzed, so I can't be responsible for what I say.

I brew like Jamil recommends. 6 gallon recipes; 7 gal >>> 6 gal post boil, 5.0-5.5 at the end.

I always get my 5 galllons, what kills me is dumping the quart or two of yeasty brew, that I could bottle but choose to dump down the drain. I get really clean beer w/o filtering. I get lots of comments on clarity. I almost always use a 2ndary.

I think this is mainly a n00b concern. I used to have this outlook. Good beer is more important to me than quantity; be that either watered down beer or yeasty as hell.

I use PM to calc the volume and boil-out water loss. I have a 18% evap-factor to account for this loss. To some degree, I adjust my sparge water to hit my vol. target. I also measure boil volume before I add the first hop addition so I know I'm on target as well. I'll boil down to target before adding the first set of hops if necessary.

I use a metal yardstick to measure depth which is equivalent to gallons on said vessel. HLT or boil kettle. I need it to calculate eff. too... I use a cross-reference spreadsheet that tells me the inches of volume for each vessel.

Doesn't everybody do about the same thing or am I the anal bastard that's figured it out ????

BTW - my variation on yield tends to be on which primary I use, the level of the spigot varies as much as 3/4 of an inch.

McKBrew said:

You suck! You suck! You suck! You and your cross service bisexuality is disturbing anyway.

Again: I am buzzed, so I can't be responsible for what I say.

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Yeah, that cross,,, bi-.. stuff is disturb.......... 90%?

I'll hold your hand if you can get me to 80%. If you can get me to 90%, hell, SWMBO will share, I think. I'll share too. You like redheads?

'Course you do.

90?

more is less to me...I hate cleaning the kitchen when I overflow a keg....Damn that's irritating!

Fingers said:

Yeah, that cross,,, bi-.. stuff is disturb.......... 90%?

I'll hold your hand if you can get me to 80%. If you can get me to 90%, hell, SWMBO will share, I think. I'll share too. You like redheads?

'Course you do.

90?

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90 has happened when I had northern brewer double crush my grain. How repeatable? Time will tell, but I've done it.

McKBrew, no disclaimer necessary. The "brewery" is a joint operation, not this brewer. I'm all green.

Well for some of us noobs part of the problem is we start with 1 gallon batches and and any loss at all is a lot when its just a gallon. So we get used to trying to keep it up to the limit. A bad habit that carries over to 5 gallon batches. My first gallon batch was 9.75 bottles. So I made sure I had enough for the second on to the the full 10 bottles. Once you get confident you figure out its about the same amount of work for 1 gallon as it is for 5 gallons. Its a numbers thing and as humans we are pretty much all about the numbers.

If none of that made sense then I agree with the majority as to why it's this way.

Have to agree, Yuri, topping to a specific volume for bottling makes no sense. If my OG is high after cooling down, I might top up a bit, but I never adjust volume after that.

I never worry about volume anymore. I go strictly for OG and if I under/over shoot that it's not the end of the world there either. Sometimes I will boil longer to get the wort more concentrated but I never water it down to dilute.

If for any reason I overshoot volume well, then I either bottle the extra or I have a half keg to fill.

It's mostly a new brewer phenomenon, and it's one just one of the myraid things such new brewers obsess about. I remember worrying about it when I racked my first batch, but I let it go (probably because I was pretty much on my own, then). It passes.

I do shoot for five gallons of finished beer, though, since it takes no more work that finishing with four gallons. I want to see that keg pretty much fill at the end, but I would never top off with water for that!


TL

I have never once repeated my volume in the end and I work with 5 gallon batches. I have however created delicious beer and it gets better every time. I really found that for me it matters what I sparge, everything else comes out pretty darned consistent I really aim for two things, a starting gravity over 1.050 and volume that will fill my keg with some going to the angels when I rack.

My most recent beer though I sparged 8 gallons and after the boil came out with around 6.75 at aroung 1.054 so my goals were hit. Had I boiled for 90 I would have had around 6 at 1.065.

Don't get me started on going over 5 gallons

I never really worry about it, never have. As long as I am in the ballpark when establishing a recipe it doesn't really matter to me. I try to be consistent but that is overridden by practicality.

Come to one of the Maryland brew days...no measurements are taken, including how much makes it into any of the carboys. We pour until someone says "stop" and put another carboy under. Some has 5.5, some probably had 4.8...everyone who wanted beer took beer home, that's all that mattered.

The lines on the side of my fermenter are for measuring how much water I need for the correct sanitiser solution.

BigKahuna said:

more is less to me...I hate cleaning the kitchen when I overflow a keg....Damn that's irritating!

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Overflow a keg? That means you are covering up the gas in dip tube. A sure recipe for contaminating your gas hoses. I know all about that!

I now only fill the keg to the top weld line. It gives me enough room to put the lid on without dipping it in beer and enough head space force carb without any hassles.

As a novice, I would like to get at least two cases if the batch is good. However, I am thankful that my second batch was short of the 5 gal mark as it sucks.

Schlenkerla said:

I use a metal yardstick to measure depth which is equivalent to gallons on said vessel. HLT or boil kettle. I need it to calculate eff. too... I use a cross-reference spreadsheet that tells me the inches of volume for each vessel.

Doesn't everybody do about the same thing or am I the anal bastard that's figured it out ????

BTW - my variation on yield tends to be on which primary I use, the level of the spigot varies as much as 3/4 of an inch.

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Hey, this sounds interesting. How about a whole other thread on this topic. sounds like good info.

Schlenkerla said:

I use a metal yardstick to measure depth which is equivalent to gallons on said vessel. HLT or boil kettle. I need it to calculate eff. too... I use a cross-reference spreadsheet that tells me the inches of volume for each vessel.

Doesn't everybody do about the same thing or am I the anal bastard that's figured it out ????

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I have a knife that I marked off where 7 gallons is in my kettle and I measured 5.25 gallons in my fementer as 12.5" from the bottom. I used to tape off the 12.5" mark but I don't anymore as long as I get 7 gallons pre-boil I end up with around 5.25 gallons depending on how much trub/wort stays behind in the kettle and if I don't I don't do anything about it.