Running 240v for Future Brewery

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Antler

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I'm thinking about running my electrical to my future brewing area in my basement. Right now my plan is 5500w element in an eBIAB setup with a pump. If someday I decide to upgrade to a 3 vessel system I'd like to not have to redo wiring.

Question is what amp rated cable and breaker should I go with?
 
What would be your total wattage for the 3 vessel future system? I'm going to go with 11,000 watts for this example. That would be about 46 amperes for 11,000 watts at 240VAC.

So probably would install a spa panel near the brewing area for future use. If a 60A GFCI is available in it that should work. Then you can run hm I think it is #6 AWG copper I usually use for those runs (if it has 75C or greater rated insulation).
 
porcupine73 said:
What would be your total wattage for the 3 vessel future system? I'm going to go with 11,000 watts for this example. That would be about 46 amperes for 11,000 watts at 240VAC.

So probably would install a spa panel near the brewing area for future use. If a 60A GFCI is available in it that should work. Then you can run hm I think it is #6 AWG copper I usually use for those runs (if it has 75C or greater rated insulation).

3 5500 watt elements would be max, 2 pumps, I'm sure all that wouldn't be running at once so I'm not sure what total wattage should be?
 
Ok well assuming running at the most two elements at once would be 11,000 watts then. The 60A would allow enough leeway to run the pumps and other small loads as well. 50A would be cutting it close. Goingr to 60A gives the extra 20% allowance for continuous loads (more than 3 hours) and depending on how long your run is getting #6 AWG Cu isn't going to cost all that much more than #8 so I'd just go #6 now.

Of course you could always go even larger over to a subpanel or local disconnect or spa panel, if you thought you'd want to run all three elements that'd be 16,500 watts, so about 69 amperes. Allowing the extra 20% would give about 83 amps so at that point you're looking at #4 or to go up to 100 amps #2 copper, that is going to start getting much costlier per foot. Plus that might cause you to want to bump up your service to the house, like if you were getting a 100 amp service you might want a 200 amp service instead.
 
porcupine73 said:
Ok well assuming running at the most two elements at once would be 11,000 watts then. The 60A would allow enough leeway to run the pumps and other small loads as well. 50A would be cutting it close. Goingr to 60A gives the extra 20% allowance for continuous loads (more than 3 hours) and depending on how long your run is getting #6 AWG Cu isn't going to cost all that much more than #8 so I'd just go #6 now.

Of course you could always go even larger over to a subpanel or local disconnect or spa panel, if you thought you'd want to run all three elements that'd be 16,500 watts, so about 69 amperes. Allowing the extra 20% would give about 83 amps so at that point you're looking at #4 or to go up to 100 amps #2 copper, that is going to start getting much costlier per foot. Plus that might cause you to want to bump up your service to the house, like if you were getting a 100 amp service you might want a 200 amp service instead.

I wouldn't be using rims, so I can't imagine wanted 3 elements on at a time. 60a should be plenty.

Would I NEED a Spa panel? Or does a GFCI breaker serve the same purpose?
 
Right, GFCI breaker in supplying panel is fine and could be argued even preferable; spa panel with GFCI I mention only because it seems popular on here.
 
The spa panel with a GFCI breaker tends to be chosen because for some bizarre reason it is priced less expensively than a comparable GFCI breaker. The only other advantage to the spa panel if you are doing new wiring (4-wire) is that you can take your GFCI with you if you want to brew elsewhere.

For existing 3-wire circuits, the spa panel does give you a way to incorporate a GFCI.
 
jeffmeh said:
The spa panel with a GFCI breaker tends to be chosen because for some bizarre reason it is priced less expensively than a comparable GFCI breaker. The only other advantage to the spa panel if you are doing new wiring (4-wire) is that you can take your GFCI with you if you want to brew elsewhere.

For existing 3-wire circuits, the spa panel does give you a way to incorporate a GFCI.

Gotcha, won't be moving the system, so GFCI breaker I'd prefer. Hope to get this wiring done soon, so i can drywall the basement. Ill wire up the outlet and run the cable myself. An electrician friend will look it over and tie it all into my panel.

Thanks for the fast replies everybody I really appreciate it.
 
Antler said:
Gotcha, won't be moving the system, so GFCI breaker I'd prefer. Hope to get this wiring done soon, so i can drywall the basement. Ill wire up the outlet and run the cable myself. An electrician friend will look it over and tie it all into my panel.

Thanks for the fast replies everybody I really appreciate it.

So I need a 60 amp GFCI breaker, 25' of #6 AWG cable, and a 240v outlet rated for 60amps, correct?
 
Probably going to want an outlet that carries the neutral so a 4 conductor outlet, that way you have 120VAC available for the pumps and such. If you get the cable at Home Depot or similar they usually list the amperes its good for, because if for some silly reason it has only 60C insulation it might not actually be good for 60A by code. Or could double check with your electrician friend to make sure there isn't some funky local code.

Cable would be 4/c or 3/c w/ gnd.
 
...If you get the cable at Home Depot or similar they usually list the amperes its good for, because if for some silly reason it has only 60C insulation it might not actually be good for 60A by code. ...

To expound further, the whole circuit and all connections must be considered in the OCP/ampacity. Ampacity is limited to the weakest link.

IOW, doesn't matter if the wire is rated 75A @ 90C if the weakest link is a termination rated at 60C. Then only the 60C ampacity rating would apply to the entire circuit.
 
That's true, I'm just going with 75C because all the modern breakers I see for home panels usually say 60C/75C. Older breakers I imagine there are probably lots rated only for 60C.
 
Yeah, didn't mean to imply you were wrong or anything...and I don't know what's all out there for ratings on new and old things. Was just hoping to build upon what you started, reinforcing there is more to the story than just what the wire size is.
 
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