scorching...what the ...

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TangleFoot

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.....He!! am I doing wrong?
First time I scorched was because I had added some priming sugar and forgot to turn off element while adding. This I understand...driver error

But tonight I just brewed up an all grain batch(BIAB) and my element is all caked up again and a slight smell or scorch.
I have a 5500w element....do you suppose this is too much?



Give me some ideas here

P2230022.JPG
 
Did you scorch your bag or the wort? Were you able to get the element completely clean after your previous scorching?

No, it did not scorch the bag because I do use a screen false bottom.
I could faintly smell scorch as I was boiling.

Yes, after my first scorch, I removed it and cleaned it very well.

Thanks, TangleFoot
 
Dumb question: Does your wort taste scorched?

not a dumb question and no it doesn't, just a slight smell.

But, this has been an on going problem with some dumped batches...not fun.

Thanks...TangleFoot
 
I have the HD 5500W ULWD Foldback element still scorched my wort. Twice in fact on back to back lagers with 90 minute boils. :mad: The wort scorched only near the base of the element where the four legs all come together in a knot. I "modified" mine last night after scorching a dunkel by gently bending mine to create more space between adjacent element runs. I'm also going to use a hop bag next time to keep the green stuff from sticking during the boil. I didn't have any issues during the first two times that I used it, but the last two have scorched. I clean the element after each use, but I'm not sure how thoroughly since I just use a toilet brush and PBW solution after the boil.

ScorchedWort.jpg
 
Once you've scorched I'd say replace the element. They are less than $20.00 from almost any hardware store so that shouldn't be an issue. Also, are you firing your element while mashing? If so you might be getting some starch buildup if you're using a high percentage of wheat/rye/oats in the mash. Don't direct fire a mash with an electric element, you're asking for trouble there, ask me how I know?
 
Once you've scorched I'd say replace the element. They are less than $20.00 from almost any hardware store so that shouldn't be an issue. Also, are you firing your element while mashing? If so you might be getting some starch buildup if you're using a high percentage of wheat/rye/oats in the mash. Don't direct fire a mash with an electric element, you're asking for trouble there, ask me how I know?

Nope, mashed in a separate pot, but when I do eBIAB I don't fire while mashing just because there is too much of a temperature swing. I have a backup element that I can switch to, but I'm going to give it a good cleaning and make a follow-on batch with the "adjustments" that I made to the element to see if the scorching stops.
 
Do you run it full on during the boil, might try to dial it back a bit while still have good boil instead of a great boil you might save it from being to hot to scortch
 
Do you run it full on during the boil, might try to dial it back a bit while still have good boil instead of a great boil you might save it from being to hot to scortch

That wouldn't work quite like you'd think it would. The element doesn't change the amount of heat it gives off, only the amount of time that heat is on. Using a PID or a PWM we modify the element to be on for say 60% of a given time period. If your time period is 10 seconds for example, the element would be on for 6 of those seconds.
 
My PWM cycles at 1.3 Hz so the amount of time that it is on is limited to about 1/2 second assuming that I am boiling at ~70% duty cycle. I had been boiling off around 20% per hour. I found additional scorching on my current element so I'm going to pull it out and swamp in my spare element for the next run. I should also do a water boil test and bring the boil off rate down to ~15%. I'll also be bending the spare element to open it up some and create an easier fluid flow path to keep everything moving to prevent initial scorching in the first place.

My last two batches were lagers so my carboys are locked down for the time being, but they might be abruptly emptied due to the burnt flavors. I'm just a bit bummed that I have 10 gallons of beer that I'm not going to like only because of this burnt wort taste. :(
 
My PWM cycles at 1.3 Hz so the amount of time that it is on is limited to about 1/2 second assuming that I am boiling at ~70% duty cycle. I had been boiling off around 20% per hour. I found additional scorching on my current element so I'm going to pull it out and swamp in my spare element for the next run. I should also do a water boil test and bring the boil off rate down to ~15%. I'll also be bending the spare element to open it up some and create an easier fluid flow path to keep everything moving to prevent initial scorching in the first place.

My last two batches were lagers so my carboys are locked down for the time being, but they might be abruptly emptied due to the burnt flavors. I'm just a bit bummed that I have 10 gallons of beer that I'm not going to like only because of this burnt wort taste. :(

I've been there before, I dumped 12 gallons because of scorching.
 
Mine was due to a 50/50 wheat grist, I recirculated while mashing and turned the element on. (never did that again) I then brewed a batch that next weekend after cleaning the element thoroughly with an SOS pad and CLR, it scorched again.
 
Well boy's......I changed my element to a ulwd and made a lighter brew with no problems.

But I see mentioned NOT to have element on during mash.....and I always have just to keep mash temp right on. I won't be doing that anymore!

Thanks for the good advice.
This place is great.....even us old farts can still learn something:D

Later.......TangleFoot-out
 
I tasted the last batch of beer that I boiled with my element and it is destined for the drain. Too bad too, I was really looking forward to drinking my own dunkel. I swamped out the element and am going to give it another go this week. I did a test boil this weekend and have my 15% boil off dialed in so I'm not over-boiling. I gently bent the element runs to separate them some to keep the wort flowing and prevent it from scorching. I'm going right back after the dunkel again so it will be a 90 minute boil to be a real test.
 
I have the HD 5500W ULWD Foldback element still scorched my wort. Twice in fact on back to back lagers with 90 minute boils. :mad: The wort scorched only near the base of the element where the four legs all come together in a knot. I "modified" mine last night after scorching a dunkel by gently bending mine to create more space between adjacent element runs. I'm also going to use a hop bag next time to keep the green stuff from sticking during the boil. I didn't have any issues during the first two times that I used it, but the last two have scorched. I clean the element after each use, but I'm not sure how thoroughly since I just use a toilet brush and PBW solution after the boil.

ScorchedWort.jpg

Are you sure that's a 5500W ULWD element? Looks like a regular LWD element to me.

The 'standard' Camco model 0963 5500W ULDW elements that many brewers use are longer still since they have a zig-zag pattern which makes it longer:

31mPjULU0pL._SL500_AA300_.jpg


Just tell people it's a smoked style :p

Wort that's been scorched doesn't taste smokey, it tastes like ashes.

Kal
 
Yup, the package lists it as an ULWD element. I know that there's a bunch of us using them on the forum but I don't know how many have had troubles with them. I didn't have a problem until I did a 90 minute boil at ~20% boil off rate. I've backed it down to 15% for my next batch later this week and I opened it up some with gentle bending. We'll see if that helps at all.

40840d1324061413-camco-elements-image-2779410060.jpg


They are both listed at ~50W/sq-in but are also both about the same length. I'll be getting the ripple element since Amazon has them on sale right now if my spare scorches this week though.
 
How long is the element? The ULWD on the packaging may be a typo. If you took the Camco one and got rid of the bends it appears like it would be a lot longer than the one you posted a picture of. I've heard of others here mentioning that they had mis-labelled elements.

Kal
 
I am switching back to my spare element which is a Camco 02399, it is not the HD one, but one that I had thought was bad which ended up being a bad SSR. Of course I can't get any links to work, but it is available on the Camco.net website. I didn't see the HD one on their website though.

You'll note that they are both sold as 50W/sq-in elements even though the ripple one would be a bunch longer than the standard fold back if it was stretched out.
 
I ended up ordering the Camco 02963 last night off of Amazon since they had it on sale and I get free shipping with my Prime membership. I'll keep the 02399 laying around as a spare or to use for a small volume BK for those 3 gallon test batches that I can't do with the ekeggle.
 
I ended up ordering the Camco 02963 last night off of Amazon since they had it on sale and I get free shipping with my Prime membership. I'll keep the 02399 laying around as a spare or to use for a small volume BK for those 3 gallon test batches that I can't do with the ekeggle.

pvtschultz.......looks like we've both have had the some problems. I have brewed a couple light batches with 60 minute boils with no problems, but I tried a heavier german weizzen type with a longer boil and I could faintly start to smell a scorch come on so I shut it off at about 75-80 minutes. Saved it and the brew appears to be fine but the element was all caked up and starting to burn.
This element was not a camco but the 'dude' at the supply house assured me that it was the same.:mad:

anyways, I did order the 02963 element from Amazon BUT!!! when I went to put it in I noticed 02962 printed on the element:mad:

does anyone know if there is a difference??

went to camco.net and could find the 02963 but no info on the 02962 that I have. even done the search on their site:mad:

Help....I'm:mad:

Tangle:mad:Foot-out
 
I found references to the 02962 here on HBT. You should be fine as long as it is a 5500W ULWD lime-life ripple element.
 
OK...Thanks
I'll go ahead and install it and give er a go.

Were the ones you got from Amazon marked correctly?

Later..TangleFoot-out
 
My element from Amazon is marked 02963.

I made my first batch using the 02963 ripple over the weekend with a 90 minute boil and the thing looked cleaner than it was when I installed it. I will say that my weather resistant enclosure was not designed to accommodate the ripple element though, that was a huge PITA to work out. Anyways, I'm going to do another ale to keep the supply lines full and then a lager or two:mug: with 90 minute boils and we'll see how it works out. I'm sure it will all be fine, everyone else uses this element...
 
I use the ULWD 5500 watt element from HD and haven't had a problem after about 15-20 batches, some 10 gal some 5 gal. A few of the batches were light lagers or blonde ales too. I run the boil at about 55-60%, and boil off about .8 to 1 gal per hour. One of the early batches I did was a Helles lager and it just got honorable mention in a competition last week, so I'm not sure how you are scorching anything.
 
I use the ULWD 5500 watt element from HD and haven't had a problem after about 15-20 batches ... so I'm not sure how you are scorching anything.

I'm not sure how it happened exactly. I may not have cleaned it well enough in between batches and had an accumulation of crud. I can't tell you how strong my boil was since I'm using a PWM to control it, but I was boiling ~21%/hr during batch #3 which was the first to has the burnt taste (the first two were boiled at the same rate w/o issue however). I've since found the 15% (1 gph) set point and used that on a batch over the weekend.
 
I have used both LWD and ULWD elements in my system (35 gallon batches; two 4500 watt elements in BK). The only time I have had any scorching was when I did back to back batches and did not clean the elements between batches. IMHO, It is very important to clean the elements after every batch. I do not think that it is imperative to have the ULWD elements. The Camco ULWD elements do not withstand dryfiring either - don't ask me how I know...
 
I know this subject is a little old, but I have a camco 02962 and i was wondering if my threads were a 1" as well. Tape measure looks to be. 1 3/16".
 
my camco 4500 watt ulwd element is 1" npt thread which is about 1 3/16 hole size .the electric brewery build uses a 11/4 chassis punch for the hole in the kettle wall
hope this helps
Paul
 
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