Dogfish head 90 minute clone discrepencies

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

scottland

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2010
Messages
2,110
Reaction score
169
Location
Chandler
So the alleged malt bill for the dogfish head 90 minute recipe that comes right from the brewer is:

16.5lbs pilsner malt
1.5lbs amber malt

Now that seems like a unique grain bill that someone wouldn't just make up. The discrepancy comes on the DFH 90 minute bottle label:

What you have here is an Imperial Pale Ale featuring a single, constant 90-minute hop addition. It's balanced by a ridiculous amount of English Two-row Barley.

Since pilsner is never called 2-row, which one is it?

What do you guys think?
 
I made a similiar recipe using the pilsner malt for the 90min. Then I just made a 60min using english 2 row. I am curious what the difference would be. I used warrior simcoe and amarillo hops for both.
 
Could you please post the all-grain recipe for the 90 minute. We brewed it using an extract recipe and I would like to compare using beersmith.

thanks,
 
Sure:

90-Minute IPA clone (Dogfish Head) from BYO
OG = 1.088 FG = 1.021
IBU = 90 SRM = 13 ABV - 8.7%

16.5 lbs. Pilsner malt
1.66 lbs. amber malt (35 *L)
2.0 oz Amarillo hops (90-0 mins)
0.62 oz Simcoe hops (90-0 mins)
0.53 oz Warrior hops (90-0 mins)
1 oz. Amarillo hops (dry hops)
0.5 oz. Simcoe hops (dry hops)
0.5 oz. Warrior hops (dry hops)
Wyeast 1099 (Whitbread Ale) yeast

The other problem I have with the receipe is, that amount of hops does not calculate to 90 IBU. Actually no where close. I found I needed 3oz Amarillo, 1oz Simcoe, and 1oz warrier to get to 90 IBU
 
How do you calculate IBU's when the hops is continuously added?
 
So the alleged malt bill for the dogfish head 90 minute recipe that comes right from the brewer is:

16.5lbs pilsner malt
1.5lbs amber malt

Now that seems like a unique grain bill that someone wouldn't just make up. The discrepancy comes on the DFH 90 minute bottle label:

What you have here is an Imperial Pale Ale featuring a single, constant 90-minute hop addition. It's balanced by a ridiculous amount of English Two-row Barley.

Since pilsner is never called 2-row, which one is it?

What do you guys think?


some good info here, interview with Andy Tveekrem:
http://www.brew-monkey.com/articles/interview.php?id=2

Q:The DFH 90 Min. BYO recipe listed the grain bill as Pilsner and amber malt, whereas a recent Zymurgy 90 min. recipe listed it as pale 2-row and Munich. Which is
more accurate?

A:Right now it is a bit of both-- 2 row and amber malt.
 
How do you calculate IBU's when the hops is continuously added?

Divide the hop amounts into 10 additions, added every 6 minutes in Beersmith. It took me a LONG time to add 30 hop additions into beersmith, but the IBUs came back way low. Considering the inaccuracy of the BYO recipe, i'm going with my gut, that little hops won't equal 90 IBUs

Infection: That's exactly the info I'm looking for!
 
Ok: I think my clone will be

17lbs 2-row
1lb Amber

90 minute is 8-9 SRM if i had to guess, no more. So I'm cutting back the amber to 5% or so.
Hops are as follows:
Amarillo: 3oz
Simcoe: 1oz
Warrior: 1oz
Divide evenly into 10 doses, and add every 6min.
Dry hop per the recipe above, and ferment with two packs of s-04
 
I am interested in how your new recipe turns out as I brew the 90 Min BYO clone quite a bit. I really like it, but it is off from the original a little and I would like to get as close as I can. I noticed in that interview that he also says "pile on the hops in the end of the boil and in the fermenter" instead of equal additions throughout the boil. Any thoughts on changing this as well?

BTW, I have 2oz Amarillo @ 8%, .5oz Warrior @ 15%, and .6 of Simcoe @ 13% and my IBU's say 89 in Beersmith. Maybe that is how BYO came up with 90IBU's by putting them in the software that way for the entire 90min. Just a thought.
 
Wouldn't you need 15 doses?

You're right, sorry, 10 doses every 10 minutes. (I'll do a 0min addition)

smuth: the problem with putting the full amount of hops in the calculator for 90 minutes is: It won't be anywhere close to accurate, as it isn't what you're doing. You're slowing adding those hops over the course of 90 minutes.

I'll let you guys know how it turns out. It'll probably be about a month or two before I'm ready to brew it.
 
I understand that part, I just meant that when BYO put the recipe together they may not have put it in their software that way and that is why it is listed as 90IBU's. Maybe the IBU's are really supposed to by lower than that. I guess we would have to contact DFH to find out for sure. With the grain bill you would figure it would need to be around 90 or so. FWIW, I followed the recipe in BYO and it is pretty damn close.
 
You're right, sorry, 10 doses every 10 minutes. (I'll do a 0min addition)

smuth: the problem with putting the full amount of hops in the calculator for 90 minutes is: It won't be anywhere close to accurate, as it isn't what you're doing. You're slowing adding those hops over the course of 90 minutes.

I'll let you guys know how it turns out. It'll probably be about a month or two before I'm ready to brew it.

I'm thinking about brewing 90 minute also. Could you tell me how your clone came out. Thank you
 
It came out really well. I was using RO water and I didn't treat it with anything so the hops took a back seat, but when I use tap water it is pretty much right on. Not exact, but still a really good beer.
 
I brewed the AHS clone kit and it's been bottled for 2 weeks now. I'm dissapointed because it's missing that apricot flavor, it's got a weak nose and tastes too boozy. I followed the instructions to the tee and ferm temp remained between 68 and 70 F throughout.
 
I'm thinking about brewing 90 minute also. Could you tell me how your clone came out. Thank you

I still haven't brewed it unfortunately. It's been pushed back once or twice on the 'on deck' list. Still the same game plan though:

17lbs 2-row
1lb Amber
Amarillo: 3oz
Simcoe: 1oz
Warrior: 1oz
Divide evenly into 10 doses, and add every 10min.
 
Ok, I'm brewing this today. The proper Amber malt is hard to find around me, so I subbed:

1lb Victory
4oz Crystal 60

Final grain bill (I cut back some 2 row, as I get a pretty solid 75-78% eff on big beers)

15lbs 2-row
1lb Victory
4oz C60
 
Ok, brew day is done. 1.082 OG, which is perfect, since I'm hoping for a little lower FG. I mashed at 149 for 90 full minutes.

I decided I wanted my beer to finish a little drier than DFH 90min, so that it showcases the hops a little better, so I'm using a 3QT starter of WLP007 which should attenuate more than WLP002. We'll see. I'm also planning on dry hopping with 2oz each Amarillo and Simcoe. I also used RO water, but add 2% acidulated malt to my grain bill, and 2tsp calcium chloride and 1tsp gypsum to each 5gal of water.
 
Let us know how it turns out. I am curious if it is much different because of the different yeast
 
Ok, the ferment is going well. I started it off around 64*, then on day 4 raised it to 68* as I saw the fermentation start to slow a little. I took a reading today (day 6), and I'm at 1.017. If I can get it down to 1.014, I'll be happy as a clam.

(yes, i know that's drier than DFH's, but I like my IIPAs a little drier). I'm gonna do 3 weeks in the primary, then dry hop for 2 weeks, then keg.
 
It finished up at 1.013. Which I'm thrilled about. That puts me at 9.0% ABV. I racked it to the secondary and dry hopped. It tastes like a drier 90 minute (I know, surprise), which is exactly what I hoped for.
 
I filled a bottle off the keg of my 90min, bought a real bottle of DFH 90min, and did a blind taste test with 3 friends. All three had the same findings.

-Color was identical -- no difference. Mine was surprising clearer, not sure how, I have 10oz of hops in this batch and don't filter.
-DFH was a littler more roasty. There was a little difference between the Amber they use, and my Victory/C60 combo. It's a distinct flavor, roasty might not be the best word.
-DFH had a more lingering bitterness, mine had a chewy hoppiness in the finish. This was expected since mine is drier
-Mine is drier =)
-Yeast character was identical. If DFH doesn't use WLP007, they use something VERY similar.

So for an identical clone:
-Use the 2-row and Amber malt. It's an unmistakable taste. No good substitute for the amber. Use less than 1.66lbs though. 1lb to 1.25 is probably right
-Use WLP007
-Mash a little higher since WLP007 attenuates well
-Hop more than the clone recipe says. 3/1/1oz is about right. Dry hop heavily.

With all that said 4 out of 4 (including me) thought mine was the better, and more drinkable beer in the blind taste test. I'm not trying to brag here, just pointing out, feel free to tweak clone recipes to your taste. Home brewing affords flexibility, which is a good thing =)
 
Here's a picture of it finished.

DSC_2939.jpg
 
Xcorpia, I think I missed your post earlier in this thread. Amarillo gives the heavy apricot nose, so unless they don't use much Amarillo in the AHS clone, I'm surprised it's not there. As for the clarity, I've always been blessed with good clarity on my brews. Cold crashing and a little gelatin helps too =)
 
I brewed the partial mash clone kit from AHS. I used a cheap thermometer so my temps were too high. Never used gelatin though. I'm going to try it next time. And I'll also do the AG version now that I've got the equipment. :)
 
It finished up at 1.013. Which I'm thrilled about. That puts me at 9.0% ABV. I racked it to the secondary and dry hopped. It tastes like a drier 90 minute (I know, surprise), which is exactly what I hoped for.

I just wanted to thank you for the follow-up for the DFH clone. I'm thrilled on the fact that you came back to the forum with great results for the clone and nice details related to the your recipe. Your recipe has been added to my collection. Thank you.
 
I just wanted to thank you for the follow-up for the DFH clone. I'm thrilled on the fact that you came back to the forum with great results for the clone and nice details related to the your recipe. Your recipe has been added to my collection. Thank you.

No worries =), that's why I love this board; i've found more awesome recipes ideas than I can count. As posted above, for a dead on clone, do: 16.5-17lbs 2-row, and 1lb amber malt. Hop with 3oz Amarillo, 1oz Simcoe and 1oz warrior. WLP007 yeast, and dry hop it heavily with amarillo/simcoe. Mash around 150-151. My sights are now set on 120 minute =)
 
Subscribed so I can add this to my 'to-brew' list, I've been looking for a DIPA and almost forgot how much I love fresh DFH (you can barely find it anymore-damn you Discovery Channel!)

Thanks scottland.
 
How much wort do you start with for a 5 gallon batch? I have yet to try a 90 minute boil, but would assume you need more than the typical 6.5 gallons to end up with 5. thanks,
 
How much wort do you start with for a 5 gallon batch? I have yet to try a 90 minute boil, but would assume you need more than the typical 6.5 gallons to end up with 5. thanks,

It depends on your boil off rate. But if you normally use 6.5gal of wort for 5 gallons into the fermenter, figure you'll need 7.25gal.
 
Thanks,

I wasn't sure if that was figured into the recipe or not. Oh, and congrats on 1st place with your recipe.
 
Back
Top