Why the insistencies? WHY?

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ding_brew

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I am a beginner. I have brewed 7 batches so far but I have noticed something in my batches that I can't figure out. My beer is really good but there are like 2 or 3 bottles in each batch that are amazing. Somewhere in the middle of the batch they show up. Perfect head and lacing. Awesomely blended taste. Just perfect. Why can't all my bottles be just as good. Don't get me wrong, I love my beer but I wish it all tasted like those few bottles in the middle of every batch that I make. WHY?

BTW Its supposed to read inconsistencies not insistencies. doh! :drunk: Too much homebrew.
 
At what point do you begin drinking them? If you start drinking them too early then you will be missing out on the majority of the bottles being properly carbed and conditioned. If you start drinking them BEFORE a minimum of 3 weeks when at 70 degrees has happened, then basicaally you're drinking green, undercarbed beer. And obviously at some point you tasting the few of them that have reached the conclusion of the process.
 
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I had this same problem until I started stirring my beer. Once the beer is in the bottling bucket with the sugar in it, stir very slowly, making sure not to aerate it. This made my batches more consistent. Just be sure not to stir it too hard. Hope this helps you with your next batch.
 
I had this same problem until I started stirring my beer. Once the beer is in the bottling bucket with the sugar in it, stir very slowly, making sure not to aerate it. This made my batches more consistent. Just be sure not to stir it too hard. Hope this helps you with your next batch.

This has nothing to do with the issue...what he is saying is, when he starts drinking the beer it doesn't taste as good as a few weeks later when he gets to the middle of the batch. This has NOTHING to do with the fact the the beer is improperly mixed with priming sugar. It has to do with him touching those beers LATER that the ones in the beginning.

It's like the old saying, the last beer of the batch is usually the best one. That's because the beer wasn't really ready to drink when he started to crack them, but by the time he hit the middle of the batch, the GREENESS was gone. That has nothing to do with sugar not being mixed, it has to do with impatience.

It's not hard to grasp this...If my beer will be ready on week 3, and I start drinking them on week 1, if I get to half the batch on week 3, SUDDENLY they're going to be better, NOT because the priming sugar was mixed improperly, but because the beer is finally ready.

In fact many of us believe that you don't need to stir. Because it AUTOMATICALLY mixes as you rack. You're flowing two nearly identical densities together, they're going to mix on their own.

What new brewers don't tend to notice, is that around the time that they begin to stir the sugar mixture they have also began to notice all the millions of threads on here repeating the mantra "Three weeks @ 70," and whether they are consciously waiting or not, at least their understanding that carbing and conditioning is a process that takes TIME to achieve. And they start waiting a little bit longer, and their beers are carbed when they get to them, but rather than it being simply that the beer is carbed because it's time to be carbed, they attribute it to stirring, which isn't really the reason.

I've never stirred and I've never had a beer not fully carb when the time was right. Stir if you want but more than likely that has no bearing on the rate or eveness of your carbing.
 
Regarding the "stir" debate...

I did a little experiment about a year ago. You can try this too.

Take a cup of water and add your favorite color of food coloring to it. Add a lot of food coloring so that the color is nice and dark. Dump it in a bucket. Rack 5 gallons of clear water from another bucket on top of the colored water with a siphon. This imitates racking beer onto priming sugar. You'll notice that the cup of colored water mixes in with the 5 gallons of clear water very nicely. Give it a try!
 
May I add that my personal experience says that the beer is typically carbed and ready to drink after three weeks... but often is longer before it truly hits its stride.

My advice to the OP? Wait a couple weeks longer than you have been waiting before you drink any beer. See if you don't get improvement.
 
Regarding the "stir" debate...

I did a little experiment about a year ago. You can try this too.

Take a cup of water and add your favorite color of food coloring to it. Add a lot of food coloring so that the color is nice and dark. Dump it in a bucket. Rack 5 gallons of clear water from another bucket on top of the colored water with a siphon. This imitates racking beer onto priming sugar. You'll notice that the cup of colored water mixes in with the 5 gallons of clear water very nicely. Give it a try!

Since you're also dealing with dissolved sugars, just food coloring is not going to be a good "control" for your experiment. You would need some dissolved sugars in your bucket "wort" and some dissolved sugars in your "priming sugar" - THEN the food coloring would show a better correlation.
 
Regarding the "stir" debate...

I did a little experiment about a year ago. You can try this too.

Take a cup of water and add your favorite color of food coloring to it. Add a lot of food coloring so that the color is nice and dark. Dump it in a bucket. Rack 5 gallons of clear water from another bucket on top of the colored water with a siphon. This imitates racking beer onto priming sugar. You'll notice that the cup of colored water mixes in with the 5 gallons of clear water very nicely. Give it a try!

Yup. I don't know why this is so hard for people to grasp.... One of these days I'm actually going to brew an extremely light beer, like a kolsch and tint my priming sugar solution, and get the clearest bucket I can find to use as a bottling bucket, maybe one of those plastic containers from a restaurant supply store, and put 2 or three cameras on the damn thing to have three different angles, and record it mixing, and finally put this damn myth to rest.

It's one thing to be dropping dry sugar into the bucket, and another to be mingling two liquids of nearly the same density.
 
Since you're also dealing with dissolved sugars, just food coloring is not going to be a good "control" for your experiment. You would need some dissolved sugars in your bucket "wort" and some dissolved sugars in your "priming sugar" - THEN the food coloring would show a better correlation.

You're right, but I would expect the same results...
As a matter of fact, I'll do that!
 
Since you're also dealing with dissolved sugars, just food coloring is not going to be a good "control" for your experiment. You would need some dissolved sugars in your bucket "wort" and some dissolved sugars in your "priming sugar" - THEN the food coloring would show a better correlation.

But, it's not really too different if you think of the fluid densities...is he's mixing water with food colored water, the fluid densities are going to be pretty similar to the mingling of beer and priming sugar solution. It may not be perfect, but it IS a pretty good demonstration.
 
But, it's not really too different if you think of the fluid densities...is he's mixing water with food colored water, the fluid densities are going to be pretty similar to the mingling of beer and priming sugar solution. It may not be perfect, but it IS a pretty good demonstration.

Yep. The issues you get are with, say, mixing extract wort with top off water. Densities there are different enough that it takes some really serious stirring to get it homogenized, and even then, you often need the help of the yeast to get it to stay that way.

Priming sugar solution and beer? Pretty easy to mix.
 
I would agree that its not a technique issue. Its an issue of patience. Im a noob myself but all of my HB has improved with patience. Sometimes its hard to wait when even "green HB" taste soooo much better than 3/4 of the commercial brews out there.
 
I had this same problem until I started stirring my beer. Once the beer is in the bottling bucket with the sugar in it, stir very slowly, making sure not to aerate it. This made my batches more consistent. Just be sure not to stir it too hard. Hope this helps you with your next batch.

Bingo
 
I think part of the problem that new brewers face are the recipes themselves. Many of them will give you the minimum time frames for each step in the process. Such as "allow to ferment for 3 days" or "store at room tempature for 3 days". Many of them make it sound as if your beer will be done in 3 weeks from start to finish. While it may technically be done its not ready to drink, usually not even close, and when the new brewer drinks 3 week old beer and spits it out because it tastes raw they get discouraged. I think we would do better to have more "truth in advertising" applied to the recipes. I know they want you to come back into the store and buy more stuff asap but I think they would have better customer retention in the long run if they were a little more honest with the timelines.
 
Right on trout. They think folks will be scared off if they read how long it really takes to make a good home brew. So they exagerate on the short side to make it sound good. It basicallt takes me about 2 months frpm BK to glass whether it's AE or PM (All Extract or Partial Mash).
And just racking alone doesn't seem to mix evenly for me. And I've got an ale pail with the large barrel tap on it (5/8" spout on it),& the Cooper's micro brew FV with the more standard 3/8" spout on the spigot. The barrel tap flows so hard,at the begining it has to be closed off a bit to keep from foaming things up. The more standard 3/8" ones can be done wide open from the start,since they don't flow as fast. But none seem to mix evenly 100% of the time.
Then there's the grainy/crusty deposits I'm finding around the lip of the bottles. Pretty tough stuff too. Gotta soak that off & see if this batch carbs better. I think the crud causes a high pressure leak & carbonation goes out the window. & I used 5oz in 5G this last time.
Anyway,It's the unrealistic time frames & little things that they'll likely only learn of on here.
 
I knew from the thread title Revvy would have a strong post about his favorite issue. It is good advice, and could very well could be the issue.....but it isn't the only possibility!!

The OP stated "in the middle" not "the last 3 bottles were great". Waiting long enough for bottle conditioning is 1 step....but if there is still inconsistency I would look at a few other basics:

1)light exposure...bottle should be stored dark.

2)bottle cleaning: I thought I was doing a good job cleaning/sanitizing my bottles....but once I started using oxyclean soaks to remove labels...I noticed a consistency gain..the occasional "off" bottle is gone.

3) equipment cleaning/sanitation...I use starsan, and don't find any off flavors from its use....but some of the other cleaners and sanitizers can effect flavor if not used properly.

4)basic bottling process, Revvy has a great process detailed in a stickly in the bottling forum.

In short step back, and make sure you have the basics right. If you have clean sanitary equipment, and good bottling process....the result should be fairly consistent.
 
What I'm referring to is beer somewhere in the muddle. Not at the end. When this happens some of the beer at the end is not as good as in the middle. From what I have read leads me to believe that it is more about inconsistent sugar and possible cleanliness problems. I think I will stir my priming sugar which I don't. I usually dump the liquid half way into my bottling bucket transfer. I will also switch from onestep to starsan and see if I get more consistent batches. I will report as soon as I set things up. I am also using ez-cap bottles and although they are not that old I will replace all of the gadgets to see if that makes a difference. Thanks for all the great ideas.
 
after i bottled my Tiger Tank Altbier I was afraid that the bottles would not be consistant carbonation w/ all of them b/c i did not stir. but alas, my fears are diminished b/c of this thread! many thanks.
 
What I'm referring to is beer somewhere in the muddle. Not at the end. When this happens some of the beer at the end is not as good as in the middle. From what I have read leads me to believe that it is more about inconsistent sugar and possible cleanliness problems. I think I will stir my priming sugar which I don't. I usually dump the liquid half way into my bottling bucket transfer. I will also switch from onestep to starsan and see if I get more consistent batches. I will report as soon as I set things up. I am also using ez-cap bottles and although they are not that old I will replace all of the gadgets to see if that makes a difference. Thanks for all the great ideas.

I think you need to be clear about what you are saying. Do you mean the ones in the beginning and end are not carbed? Just saying they are "good" isn't exactly chock full of information. Good tells everyone very little about what you are experiencing.
 
What I mean is that they have better head, nicer lacing, smoother taste. Not necessarily more carbed but just nicer to drink.
 
It seems to me that he means the beers that were from the middle of the beer column in the bottling bucket. When I bottle mine,I know which bottles were from the bottom,& which from the top. his best ones were from the middle of the total bunch of bottles. That's my take on it,since I kinda keep the same orientation in my mind...
 
It seems to me that he means the beers that were from the middle of the beer column in the bottling bucket. When I bottle mine,I know which bottles were from the bottom,& which from the top. his best ones were from the middle of the total bunch of bottles. That's my take on it,since I kinda keep the same orientation in my mind...

Does he though? Possibly or is it that the first ones don't taste as good, middle ones are fine and last ones have issue, no matter where they came from in the bottling process? To me that says green beer at first, good beer in the middle, before other problems (sanitation, oxidation, etc.) start setting in to ruin the last few.

Clarification could go a long way towards understanding the issue. He says it's a matter of having a better head, lacing and a smoother taste, not necessarily a question of a difference in carbonation.
 
He posted a minute before me,& I didn't look up. It's also a matter of conditioning with some beers in the middle of the box,others around the sides,that sort of thing. As it relates to ambient temps. Seems to me revvs got into this one before. Add time to the equasion,& the results from one group of bottles to another can be noticeable. That's what I was basically getting at. I've seen it myself,just lookin for a way to describe it.
 
He posted a minute before me,& I didn't look up. It's also a matter of conditioning with some beers in the middle of the box,others around the sides,that sort of thing. As it relates to ambient temps. Seems to me revvs got into this one before. Add time to the equasion,& the results from one group of bottles to another can be noticeable. That's what I was basically getting at. I've seen it myself,just lookin for a way to describe it.

Oh, I'm not disagreeing with your premise at all. I'm just saying it's not easy to tell what he's describing without more data.

:mug:
 
It seems to me that he means the beers that were from the middle of the beer column in the bottling bucket. When I bottle mine,I know which bottles were from the bottom,& which from the top. his best ones were from the middle of the total bunch of bottles. That's my take on it,since I kinda keep the same orientation in my mind...

Most people don't. I sure as heck don't. I think you're reading waaay too much into this. I couldn't tell you which bottle is from which part of the bottling bucket....and I don't believe that matters at all.

Shooter and I seem to be the only people getting this. He's talking conditioning, He get's to the MIDDLE of his drinking of the batch, which falls around the time his batch reaches it's peak (probably around three or four weeks, like it is for everyone else, when the beer's no longer green.....It's the same question we get on here 10 times a day, just phrased a little awkwardly.
 
Assuming master Revvy is correct, the problem is still oxidation. It's hard to drink 60-70 beers at peak freshness if that period is only a week.

Limiting oxidation is key to good homebrew. Racking your beer into the priming solution could be a good practice. It will mix and you don't need to stir as much.

I don't bottle condition very often but when I add finings I always rack into the solution in a purged container. Much lesss oxygen pickup that way.
 
If you have the fridge room, when the beer peaks, chill it. That will hold the peak a lot longer.
 
I get what y'all are sayin. I'm just gettin the feeling we've been here before,revvs. But my batches have sometimes been that way. Time how well the priming solution mixes,etc. I'll shut up now...
 
The man who intoxicates himself on bad whisky is sometimes moved to kill his wife and set his house on fire, but the victim of applejack is capable of blowing up a whole town with dynamite and of reciting original poetry to every surviving inhabitant.

– “A Wicked Beverage,” New York Times, April 10, 1894

I had this same problem until I started stirring my beer.

Me too!
 
May I add that my personal experience says that the beer is typically carbed and ready to drink after three weeks... but often is longer before it truly hits its stride.

My advice to the OP? Wait a couple weeks longer than you have been waiting before you drink any beer. See if you don't get improvement.

This right here ^

I started giving the majority of my beers 4 weeks 'til time for the fridge and a week in there before it's time.
 
I had this same problem until I started stirring my beer. Once the beer is in the bottling bucket with the sugar in it, stir very slowly, making sure not to aerate it. This made my batches more consistent. Just be sure not to stir it too hard. Hope this helps you with your next batch.

That helped me out greatly when I was first starting out. Revvy is correct on letting your bottles sit a few weeks before serving, too. It's hard to wait that long when your first starting out, I know. But it's worth it when ALL of your bottles taste good.
 
I got what you guys were saying,I'm not that dense. But I understand where the op is comng from,& was trying to think of a good way to say it. Ambient air temp would effect the bottles in a mass storage device differently, to a small extent,from the outer perimeter to the center of the storage medium. I figured it also depends on how well the priming solution really mixes. Not how well it's imagined too. There are no absolutes other than the vodka. :D
 
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