Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

So I put in a little bit more juice than I should have and my glass carboy (5g) was VERY full. I knew this was super risky since we aren't using Montrachet, so I hooked up a blowoff, even though I had foam control drops in there.

Good bloody thing!!


Here are pics of the blowoff jug after round 1 of blowoff, and of my very full carboy.

Coastarine said:

Dude...you wrote this recipe.

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haha, sorry. I was tanked i'm sure.


Nice pics by the way.

I made this last night and pitched it about 11:00 no real bubbles yet is that normal for safale-04? first time I have used it. Ihave a blowoff rigged up too just in case...I am using a 6 gallon carboy as well. I followed the recipe to the letter and used Tettanang(sp?) for the hops.

I think this will be my next cider! Come on pay day

bobjohnson77 said:

I made this last night and pitched it about 11:00 no real bubbles yet is that normal for safale-04? first time I have used it. Ihave a blowoff rigged up too just in case...I am using a 6 gallon carboy as well. I followed the recipe to the letter and used Tettanang(sp?) for the hops.

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you will see some thick krausen tonight I am sure. I use nottingham and s-05 frequently, so s-04 is pretty similar and I'd say you are right on track.

Keep the reviews coming! This is the best stuff people have never tried!

Bubbling away quite nicely! can't wait till it's done

Can't wait to try this. I have about 9 gravenstein apple trees and we just thinned them out. I hope to press some juice and try this recipe this summer. Has anyone had luck with fresh pressed juice? Did you filter or pectic enzymes?

I just made the recipie
with 1 lbs cascade 60lbs steeped in applejuice at 165-170 for 40 min.
nottingham yeast
1.75 lbs Muntons light hopped LME
5 gallons motts. I put it in a 6gal carboy so when it calms down I am going to top off the carboy with an additional gallon of motts apple juice I think so I have a full 6 gal.

Only time will tell.

Oh and I was drinking original applewien while making this graFF SO that should enhance the flavors. I didnt take a hydro reading, what do you guys think it will finish at???

johnyrrr said:

I just made the recipie
with 1 lbs cascade 60lbs steeped in applejuice at 165-170 for 40 min.
nottingham yeast
1.75 lbs Muntons light hopped LME
5 gallons motts. I put it in a 6gal carboy so when it calms down I am going to top off the carboy with an additional gallon of motts apple juice I think so I have a full 6 gal.

Only time will tell.

Oh and I was drinking original applewien while making this graFF SO that should enhance the flavors. I didnt take a hydro reading, what do you guys think it will finish at???

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Well, I think that you meant "oz" not "lbs"
Did you brew this from the couch on your porch?

johnyrrr said:

I just made the recipie
with 1 lbs cascade 60lbs steeped in applejuice at 165-170 for 40 min.
nottingham yeast
1.75 lbs Muntons light hopped LME
5 gallons motts. I put it in a 6gal carboy so when it calms down I am going to top off the carboy with an additional gallon of motts apple juice I think so I have a full 6 gal.

Only time will tell.

Oh and I was drinking original applewien while making this graFF SO that should enhance the flavors. I didnt take a hydro reading, what do you guys think it will finish at???

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I think your brew is gonna taste very bitter and hoppy which may be out of place with all the apple flavor.
first off, 1oz of hops is too much. The hops are only meant to provide a very light counter to the slight tart flavor. Then adding hopped DME on top of it? Try brewing it with out any hops next time. It's really good with out hops too.

updated the original recipe.

Brandon O said:

I think your brew is gonna taste very bitter and hoppy which may be out of place with all the apple flavor.
first off, 1oz of hops is too much. The hops are only meant to provide a very light counter to the slight tart flavor. Then adding hopped DME on top of it? Try brewing it with out any hops next time. It's really good with out hops too.

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Huge typo on my part sorry:
1lbs of 60 L crystal malt, not a hop addition at all.
I didnt add any hops as I uhad light hopped malt extract already.
It is cooking away, I have never used nottinghams yeast, that stuff has a frosty head on it for sure.

johnyrrr said:

Huge typo on my part sorry:
1lbs of 60 L crystal malt, not a hop addition at all.
I didnt add any hops as I uhad light hopped malt extract already.
It is cooking away, I have never used nottinghams yeast, that stuff has a frosty head on it for sure.

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I just used Nottingham yeast on the last brew and it had a very frosty head, then it got very foamy on top and finished fermentation quickly.

Is this something that can be scaled down to a 1gal (besides dividing the above by 5)? I've never steeped grain in such little volume of H2O. Maybe, I could steep in apple juice if I'm willing to deal with a pectic haze. I dunno. Any suggestions?

.25 lb of 60L

I wouldn't mess with the torified wheat.

Steep that in .25 gallons of water.

then add .5 lbs of DME and boil for 5 mins, don't mess with the hops for a one gallon batch.

add all that in a one gallon fermenter with .75 gallons apple juice.

use the whole pack of nottingham. you may need a blow off.

how long should i let it sit after ferm stops, does it finish clear?

I just brewed up a batch of Graff tonight.


.5lb Crystal 60L
1oz Carapils (LHBS didn't have torrified wheat)
1lb Gold DME
1lb Amber DME
4 gallons apple juice
.5oz Fuggle Hops
Nottingham Yeast


Smelled really good in the carboy. Hydro sample tasted excellent. OG 1.060.
I can't wait till this is done. There is a party on 6/27 and I hope to have the family taste this great recipe. Gonna primary 2 weeks then bottle half and keg half. Can't wait... thanks Brandon!

johnyrrr said:

how long should i let it sit after ferm stops, does it finish clear?

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Ferment for 2 weeks, but your hydrometer should be the real judge.

I've never let any sit in the carboy for more than 2 weeks so I don't know if it clears.

What is the sweetness level like. I do find apfelwein a bit dry for my liking, and prefer not to back sweeten.

Mine is kegged, I have a tough time judging the taste of a sample but it was definitely less tart than my previous ciders.

kenche said:

What is the sweetness level like. I do find apfelwein a bit dry for my liking, and prefer not to back sweeten.

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It's not a sweet cider by any means. You ever had woodchuck cider or strongbow? I would say it's a bit dryer than those, but not nearly as dry as apfelwein.

Coastarine said:

Mine is kegged, I have a tough time judging the taste of a sample but it was definitely less tart than my previous ciders.

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I tell you what, you can drink it right away but, 1-2 weeks in the keg and it's AMAZING!

Brandon - do you have to chill the gallon of wort or could you just add it to the juice in the carboy? Or would the high temp of the wort cause some haze? Seems like taking a gallon of 155* and adding to 4 gallons of room temp (or colder) juice would get you to pitching temps without chilling the wort

AZ_IPA said:

Brandon - do you have to chill the gallon of wort or could you just add it to the juice in the carboy? Or would the high temp of the wort cause some haze? Seems like taking a gallon of 155* and adding to 4 gallons of room temp (or colder) juice would get you to pitching temps without chilling the wort

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This is what I did, and I got clear cider. Beersmith can help you run the numbers on if you want to chill 1 or 2 of the gallons of juice.

Shaun_ATX said:

Just brewed a batch of Graff this afternoon. Followed the recipe exactly.......used 100% apple juice from Walmart, Safale-05 and Cascade hops (7.5%AA)

Can't wait to give it a try!!

OG: 1.060 @ 66 degrees

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On my second pint of this stuff and man.....this stuff has an amazing flavor. Not as sweet as Woodchuck, semi-dry, nice cider flavor with a slight malty sweetness. Very smooth and (will probably regret this in the morning) easy to drink large quantities.

15 days in primary, (and I cooled the wort first) then kegged with 4.5 oz priming sugar and let sit for 3 weeks at room temp. FG was 1.004 for a ABV of 7.3% It does have a slight haze that reminds me of a slightly darker Paulaner Hefe.

Definitely a killer recipe, will be a staple in my keezer. From brew day to pint in 5 weeks, with a flavor that is unmatched by any cider! Doesn't get much better than that. Thanks Brandon O

Was planning on using safale-04 or the nottingham...

Think I would be OK with a 6 gal carboy, or do I need to worry about a blow off?

MrBeetle said:

Was planning on using safale-04 or the nottingham...

Think I would be OK with a 6 gal carboy, or do I need to worry about a blow off?

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I use ferm cap so I don't blow off, but I would think you'd be okay.

Coastarine said:

This is what I did, and I got clear cider. Beersmith can help you run the numbers on if you want to chill 1 or 2 of the gallons of juice.

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Man, I gotta start chilling the wort if that gets it clear. I usually just add the juice and throw the wort on top of it. The 4 gallons of apple juice cools it down, but I wouldn't mind having a clear Graff.

May have to update the OG recipe.

update the original recipe. Cooling the wort to about 70 degrees before adding the AJ makes a lot of difference in clarity.

I was just adding AJ to the hot wort in order to cool it.

Brandon O said:

update the original recipe. Cooling the wort to about 70 degrees before adding the AJ makes a lot of difference in clarity.

I was just adding AJ to the hot wort in order to cool it.

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It's good to hear that. For some reason, I decided to cool my wort prior to mixing with the juice. It sounds like that might have been a good decision. So, hopefully it will turn out great. I'm bottling on Saturday!!!!

Got all the stuff for Graff today! My LHBS did not have torrified wheat but said flaked wheat would give the same results. Is there anything that should be done differently if I use the flaked wheat. I know I could leave it out, but I would like to see a nice beer like head.

Can't wait for Sunday to do this!

Brewing up a Graff as we speak. Smells great!

got some fermenting right now. I have been chain brewing this recipe for a few months now.

sorry noob question here. I made this before you updated it with the chill the wort first.. I don't care if it's cloudy but could I put in some whirl flock now? it's been in about two weeks or so and has stopped bubbling finally

I don't think whirlfloc is going to help after the fact, but you can try gelatin.

Add a half teaspoon of gelatin to a cup of cool water, let it sit for 20 mins, then heat it to about 170 just to kill off anything (don't boil!) and add it to the fermenter or keg.

bobjohnson77 said:

sorry noob question here. I made this before you updated it with the chill the wort first.. I don't care if it's cloudy but could I put in some whirl flock now? it's been in about two weeks or so and has stopped bubbling finally

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Whirflock is an irish moss product and need to be boiled in order to work. just use gelatin as coastarine suggested.

Brewed up my estimation of an all grain version of this today.

3 pounds 2 row, .75 lb of crystal 60l, no hops, no torrified wheat, S-05 yeast

Mashed in with 2 gallons of water at 170*f which came down to 160 for an hour. Boiled down to a gallon in another hour. First time using the brew in a bag technique and for this kind of brew - it works well. Came in right around 1.1 from the grain portion.

Added 4 gallons of applejuice - expect to see visible fermentation by morning.

Pictures follow...


Brew in a bag, aussie style.

Mash out/ sparge pretty much non existant. I just pulled the bag (or rather square of fabric) and let her drain. Probably could have used my igloo MT but this was an excuse to try something new.


Pretty run of the mill boil, right? No chance of a boil over with 2 gallons in a 7 gallon pot...


Wrongo. Good thing I was watching.


The final grain based product, siphoned from boil pot and shook like heck before adding to carboy.

Bonus is that the containers are PET so they've been sterilized with star san and await a couple batches of something...

wow man, great pics! thanks for posting them, i'm gonna start mashing two row myself, I hate paying so much for DME.

fidjit said:

Got all the stuff for Graff today! My LHBS did not have torrified wheat but said flaked wheat would give the same results. Is there anything that should be done differently if I use the flaked wheat. I know I could leave it out, but I would like to see a nice beer like head.

Can't wait for Sunday to do this!

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you would have to steep the flaked wheat, nothing different really. It should have a nice beer like head.

Possible infection...I moved the graff to a secondary and was very careful about sanitation. I used the gelatin reccomendation to clear it. This morning I have some white dots on top. Is this a possible infection or maybe I just woke up the yeast. I will try to get some picts on here soon for better identification. But so far it looks like the begging of fermentation sotra...the white little dots that appear.