brewing Indoors with Propane

Was thinking about moving out of kitchen into a 12 x 16 out building. I am doing extract on kitchen stove and want to move to out building with propane all grain setup. Can I brew indoors safely with a door open and a fan in the window? Really dont want to be outside, if I can help it.

Propane indoors is generally a bad idea. Are you setting up a permanent brew location or will you be tearing down after every session? I'd go NG if permanent, or all electric. I'm considering the Speidel Braumeiester to allow me indoor brew freedom, among other reasons.

Carbon Monoxide can build up quickly and doesn't necessarily ventilate well with just a fan. Use the fan to suck clean air into the room, not blow air out. Be careful and make sure to have a CO detector in the room. You can get them at any hardware store for less than $20.

+1 on the Carbon Monoxide detector. Just be certain you have ample circulation in there.

mako, I am trying to make a permanent location. Not crazy about outside -Wind, Bugs, Pollen and Weather. I dont have 220 in building and thought propane would be faster, cheaper. I know some people that brew in garage with door open. What is NG?

I'm assuming NG is natural gas. This is the route I would take if I were doing a permanent indoor brew setup.

Why is natural gas safer? If I dont have natural gas at house can I buy it like propane?

Piney said:

I know some people that brew in garage with door open.

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I brew like that, no problems. Wouldn't dare to do it with the garage door closed, though. Same reasons as previously stated.

NG is natural gas. It burns cleaner and you can safely set up an indoor setup with it, much like a kitchen. Problem is that it leaves a permanent setup vs portability of propane. I'm not saying you cant use propane indoors but your typical high btu burner is going to through a lot of carbon monoxide. I currently brew on a back porch that is partially screened and even the screen material leaves a lot of gas in a confined space - more than i like for certain. A detector is a must IMO.

ASantiago said:

I brew like that, no problems. Wouldn't dare to do it with the garage door closed, though. Same reasons as previously stated.

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Ditto

I brew in the garage with the door open and a CO detector. I've found that if you move your burners close to the plane of the door instead of being further back in the garage, the CO detector does not register any CO at all as you are essentially outside but with the wind protection, roof etc you are looking for. It's a good way to do it IMO.

What about getting some kind of overhead hood fan like in kitchens, and having it suck out hard right over the boil. As for the door, just get a screen door for the main entrance. Open the windows and get screens for them... Fan sucks everything out, screened windows and door provide fresh air inside.

However you do it, a CO monitor should be a no-brainer requirement.

If you're building the kind of shed I am envisioning. one BIG window that half slides and a door you will probably be alright having both open at once with a big box fan on high. The building is pretty small with a good air current flowing through there I would think you would be ok. But emphasis should be placed on good air flow. big box fan and large volumes of air moving through none stop.

Just do it outside. A little sunburn is a whole hell of a lot better than a total body skin falling off like a chicken on the grill burn because you decided to use propane indoors. You dig?

You'd probably be ok in the garage if both doors car-doors are open and you have a door leading outside open in the back.

makomachine said:

NG is natural gas. It burns cleaner and you can safely set up an indoor setup with it, much like a kitchen. Problem is that it leaves a permanent setup vs portability of propane. I'm not saying you cant use propane indoors but your typical high btu burner is going to through a lot of carbon monoxide. I currently brew on a back porch that is partially screened and even the screen material leaves a lot of gas in a confined space - more than i like for certain. A detector is a must IMO.

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Lots of folks where I live don't have natural gas available. They put a big propane tank in the yard and are able to run water heaters, stoves, dryers, and other appliances safely off of propane. I think the issue is that an outdoor burner like a turkey fryer put off a LOT more CO than an indoor propane stove.

realjd said:

Lots of folks where I live don't have natural gas available. They put a big propane tank in the yard and are able to run water heaters, stoves, dryers, and other appliances safely off of propane. I think the issue is that an outdoor burner like a turkey fryer put off a LOT more CO than an indoor propane stove.

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That's what I assumed he was using too. Turkey fryer burners have a lot of free propane loss while burning, at least a lot if you're in a poorly vented space.

You will be okay with propane indoors if you are careful and follow the advice in this thread re: good ventilation.

I have a living room/kitchen area with fairly high ceilings that I've used a propane burner in before without any doors or windows open. After reading this thread I feel fortunate to be here to tell the tale.

Are you going to bring plumbing to the building? If so (or even if not) I would strongly consider extending a gas line out to it as well.

Regardless of what path you choose, follow the advice in this thread and you should be ok. Ensure good ventilation (that will be available year round, good ventilation in the summer is no good if the building gets cold and you leave the windows closed in the winter) and a CO detector is an absolute must.

I did this in the garage all winter, just left the garage door open a foot. Didn't want it open more then that...I was indoors for a reason, to contain heat and not freeze! Had one other door open a foot, to allow airflow.

Its all about ventillation in and out.

realjd said:

Lots of folks where I live don't have natural gas available. They put a big propane tank in the yard and are able to run water heaters, stoves, dryers, and other appliances safely off of propane. I think the issue is that an outdoor burner like a turkey fryer put off a LOT more CO than an indoor propane stove.

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Don't disagree as this is common in rural Oklahoma as well. The difference is the type of burner you are using and the turkey frier / banjo burners are not safe for indoor use. As far as I know, I don't believe even morebeer brew sculpture burners are indoor rated but could be wrong on that point. Regardless, if I was using propane or any gas indoors for brewing I'm taking proper precautions - CO detector and ventilation to the max. Personally, I just wouldn't risk it - but that's just me.

Using propane inside is okay as long as you do three things
1. Install CO2 detector
2. Force air in.
3. Force air out.

Need to look at the total cubic feet of the structure and get the appropriate fan sizes and place the air in higher than the air out. You need to make sure the fans will move enough air volume to cycle the air in the room at least once every 5 minutes. With an 8 foot ceiling that will be over 1500 cubic feet so you will need to move about 300 cubic feet of air per minute just to be safe. Will also help to cool and move out moisture.
Remember if you are using high pressure burners with over 100,000 btu's there efficiency is good but not great and CO2 will be an issue but maybe not be the biggest issue... heat may be. So you may want to consider using a little bit larger fan size.

I plan to use propane inside, on the small basement brew room I am building. An 80 CFM fan for air in, 140 CFM fan for air out the room is small only 570 Cubic feet. However I am using low pressure burners at 70k btu to get a little better efficiency and less co2. Just going to take longer to boil the 10 gallon, but time I got.

Aren't you guys also worried about burning your house or shed or whatever structure you are brewing in down?

bumstigedy said:

Aren't you guys also worried about burning your house or shed or whatever structure you are brewing in down?

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I'd be more concerned with frying bacon in my kitchen over gas, than boiling 5 gallons of water in my shed over gas.

realjd said:

Lots of folks where I live don't have natural gas available. They put a big propane tank in the yard and are able to run water heaters, stoves, dryers, and other appliances safely off of propane. I think the issue is that an outdoor burner like a turkey fryer put off a LOT more CO than an indoor propane stove.

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Yep, here too. I purchased a hurricane burner with a 1psi regulator because I was concerned about the rapid volume of CO2. I don't know if that is a valid concern but it makes sense in my head.

I've brewed with propane in my garage with the door open for 20 years without incident. I am in the early planning stage of moving the process to my basement using natural gas. I plan to exhaust gases and steam using a ducted fairly large in line fan. I'll build a hood above the brew rig. I plan to use a 2nd fan to bring in make up air and duct it to points below the burners.

My big concern is the 20 lb propane tank being inside. So I plan to bring it in when I brew and take it back outside when I am done. Other than that not concerned about fire as low pressure burners are not much different than the propane stove upstairs, just bigger. My whole house is propane ... furnace, stove, water heater, electricity runs the pump for the well and the lights. The other heat is 2 wood burners (both in the basement) and a fire place in living room upstairs.

lextasy23 said:

I'd be more concerned with frying bacon in my kitchen over gas, than boiling 5 gallons of water in my shed over gas.

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My stove doesn't tip over.

I have been to multiple house fires involving turkey fryers on decks and in garages, not just from boil flash over, but tipping too.


Usually the house is a total loss.

Most of the "stove fires" I've been too resulted in burnt food and a smelly house.

jd3 said:

My stove doesn't tip over.

I have been to multiple house fires involving turkey fryers on decks and in garages, not just from boil flash over, but tipping too.

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1. Your boil kettle shouldn't tip over. If it isn't stable, stabalize it.

2. Fires involving turkey fryers involve oil. Just like a grease fire from bacon on your gas stove. Lots of people burn their houses down with turkey fryers (friers?) because they are dumb and don't realize the oil will catch on fire. Your wort won't.

Turkey fryers, when actually using oil and cooking turkeys, NEEDS to be outside away from things that will catch on fire. Propane burners that are stable, boiling water, are much less of a fire hazard. I brew on a small deck with an overhang. I'm at no risk to catch things on fire (though I always have a fire extinguisher handy) The risk with propane/gas for beer is the lack of oxygen to your brain if not well ventillated. Hence why this has been a ventillation discussion and not a fire prevention discussion.

jd3 said:

I have been to multiple house fires involving turkey fryers on decks and in garages, not just from boil flash over, but tipping too.

Usually the house is a total loss.

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I don't necessarily disagree but wouldn't you agree that 30 gallons of flaming peanut oil is the cause, not the propane?

another problem with propane indoors is that, unlike natural gas, propane is heavier than air and will pool in a low space if there is a leak. This is why basements and propane are scary. If I was going to brew in an outdoor shed, I'd run a hard plumbed line (with interior shutoff where it enters the building, that you actually shut off when not actively using) through the wall and use/store the tank outside. This way, If the tank leaks, it's leaking outside and no harm no foul to the building.

Firemen REALLY don't want to go near a building that has a propane tank (bomb) in it if there's a problem (like a fire you want them to put out.)

With proper ventilation, forced air out and correctly placed intake and my tank outside, I'd be FINE using a propane stove inside to brew.

BSD

Horace said:

I don't necessarily disagree but wouldn't you agree that 30 gallons of flaming peanut oil is the cause, not the propane?

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LIke I said, I have been on fires involving turkey fryers with NO oil involved.

A normal turkery fryer can and will tip over. If you think you are invincible to accidents, you're just waiting to be a patient of mine. If people can tip over candles and start fires, a jet engine of a turkey fryer can do the same thing...


And 30 gallons of peanut oil is kinda a lot....

I brew in my garage all the time. But, I do it near the doors which are wide open. Also, like others have said, propane is heavier than air so it will sink to the floor. My garage doesn't have any low windows or doors. The door to the house is about 4 feet above the garage floor. So, be careful.

I'm not a chemist, but when using propane, Carbon Dioxide (Co2) should be your primary concern over Carbon Monoxide (Co). While both are generated, I believe much more Co2 is generated than Co. It is denser than air and as such displaces the surrounding air (from the bottom up.) Lots of ventilation and a Co2 and you should be ok, but I wouldn't recommend it.

jd3 said:

A normal turkery fryer can and will tip over. If you think you are invincible to accidents, you're just waiting to be a patient of mine. If people can tip over candles and start fires, a jet engine of a turkey fryer can do the same thing...
.

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Well yes a turkey fryer would be something not to use inside. Those are high pressure burners... and I would not advocate using any high pressure burners inside, they push to much gas to burn as efficiently as would be safe inside. They are not stable and easy to upend. Even careful handling can result in a tragic accident. I have no intention of using a turkey fryer. I recommend using low pressure burners inside. My low pressure burners will be totally stabilized on a fixed mounts attached to both a post and a wall. With a CO2 detector and sufficient air circulation and a type III fire extinguisher I feel quite safe both with CO2 and fire. Also I will not store a propane tank in the house. In fact if I can swing it I will leave it out side and run piping in. Using common sense, planning and thought propane can safely be used indoors, basement or shed or garage. Natural gas is not an option for me, out side is not an option for me and I do not have a garage. My stove will not boil 10 gallons it struggles to boil the 3 gallon batches I do now and they are way too small as my family and friends are very demanding and want fresh homemade beer. Electric brewing was considered and the implementation cost and efficiency made it too costly. Your a first responder and I value your thoughts, opinions and I really appreciate your concern. I was a first responder when I was younger, and I have seen my share of tragedy and death. I have thought this through, and discussed and researched. I am fairly confident it can be done safely.

Thanks
George

I use the SQ-14 Bayou Classic turkey fryer burner on the concrete floor of my 24 x 48 garage, which is totally open, probably a 20' peak, with soffit and ridge vents. Also, I brew with all the doors open. Plenty of ventilation. I wouldn't brew indoors with this rig under any circumstances. I'd like to move to my basement, but that would require a move to electric brewing.

Piney, if you manage the risks well you'll be okay using propane inside. Like others have said, use good ventilation, use an efficient burner so minimal CO (carbon monoxide) will be generated, have a CO monitor in your breathing zone, stabilize your burner, and keep the flame away from flammable surfaces. Never leave the burner unattended - if the kettle boils over the flame can be extinguished, and now you have a problem. Test your propane connections each time you use the set up, or anytime you disconnect/connect a fitting, to prevent leaks. Store the propane cylinder outside the building. Probably other things I haven't mentioned.

CO2 (carbon dioxide) is heavier than air, as is propane. The CO2 generated by the flame will not settle to the floor, it is actively mixed in the air by convection currents since it is hot as it comes off the flame. Leaking propane can settle in a low area if the leak is in a calm area, or if the leak is so fast that it overcomes any mixing action by moving air in the area.

One gas being heavier than another is not sufficient for settling to take place. Otherwise, all the gases in the atmosphere would separate in calm places, and that doesn't happen, ever.

Electric is a much better choice for your situation. I assume your new brew structure has at least 20 amp service? That's all you'd need for a five gallon batch. 220v is not necessary at all.





Just drill a hole in your keggle or pot. Buy the proper locking nut and gasket from www.bargainfittings.com. Mount element in your pot/keggle. Keep connections to element encased in a waterproof electrical box. Plug into a gfci outlet, of course. I mounted the gfci's with a switch in the same box for easily turning on and off. Ground your kettle.

Use a 2000watt, 120v element. You're good for 5 gallon batches. I do 10 gallon batches with two of these mounted in my keggle. I think this is the safest way to go and very functional.

I would never tell anyone not to use propane in their garage. However, I do feel electrical is probably a safer bet indoors. These elements were made to be mounted on hot water heaters. It's a safe way to go and you get great results, much cheaper than propane. Head over to the electric forum and check it out.

Dgonza9 said:

cheaper than propane.

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Sorry but propane is much cheaper and more efficient than electric. If I had access to natural gas I would use it, but it is not available. Further the high cost of electricity here in world of electric co-ops is more than outrageous. The monthly cost of electricity is 2 to 2.5 times higher than the monthly cost of propane and all of my appliances are propane (furnace, stove, oven, hot water).

ASantiago said:

I brew like that, no problems. Wouldn't dare to do it with the garage door closed, though. Same reasons as previously stated.

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Same here.