I pitched the nottingham yeast into my porter Saturday at 10pm. no activity after 24 hrs. pitched another package of the same yeast Sunday around 9pm. With a wort temp of 68 deg. it's Monday afternoon now and not much is going on inside the fermentor. This is my 5th batch of brewers best beer kits and so far I have had great luck. Any advice would be helpful' Woodro.
No fermentation activity.
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Suthrncomfrt1884
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It can take up to 72 hours to see fermentation. That doesn't mean it's not doing anything or that your beer is going to have problems. Wait a full 72 hours after you pitched your last pack of notty and if it hasn't started up, then let us know and we'll go from there.
When you get to that 72 hours, take a hydrometer reading, then let us know what's going on...
This will run contrary to popular opinion, but it's what I'd do in your situation...
Regardless of what people on this forum say, having an ale take more than 36 hours to start fermention is indicative of poor yeast health or other factors that will lead to an unhealthy fermentation, and probably some off flavors as a result. Unfortunately this problem is largely ignored and the popular advice is to wait. Yes, a delay like this does happen on occasion, but yeasts are predictable organisms. If they are not thriving, there's a reason for it, and it's in the interest of the quality of your beer to do something about it!
You really want to nail down a healthy fermentation as the most important factor in producing high quality beer. While the result may still be drinkable if it takes 72 hours to start, why wouldn't you do everything within reason to make the best beer you can? You'll end up drinking a lot of it - you should enjoy it, right?
In your position, I would take a gravity reading immediately. If your assumption was correct and the gravity has not budged from brew day, I'd want to figure out the problem and address it ASAP. Did I aerate enough? Did I shock the yeast when I pitched with the wort being too warm or cold? Did I proof the yeast (dry) or make a starter (liquid) to ensure its vitality? Is there enough free amino nitrogen in the wort to support rapid propagation? If signs point to the yeast being in a bad state, I'd be off to the LHBS right away to pick up some more yeast to use and make sure I got it right this time.
If you wait 72 hours and it does start fermenting before then, well then you've wasted a perfectly good warning sign and now you're fermenting a batch with less than optimal yeast. You could have avoided this (plus underattenuation, and the resulting high levels of esters, fusel alcohols, diacetyl, etc) by repitching.
If you wait 72 hours and it does not start to ferment, you just wasted another day or two of critical time during which wild yeast and bacteria can gain a foothold, and you have to pitch new yeast anyway.
The last thing I would do is sit on my butt for 72 hours, but that's just because I tend to be proactive.
Regardless of what people on this forum say, having an ale take more than 36 hours to start fermention is indicative of poor yeast health or other factors that will lead to an unhealthy fermentation, and probably some off flavors as a result. Unfortunately this problem is largely ignored and the popular advice is to wait. Yes, a delay like this does happen on occasion, but yeasts are predictable organisms. If they are not thriving, there's a reason for it, and it's in the interest of the quality of your beer to do something about it!
You really want to nail down a healthy fermentation as the most important factor in producing high quality beer. While the result may still be drinkable if it takes 72 hours to start, why wouldn't you do everything within reason to make the best beer you can? You'll end up drinking a lot of it - you should enjoy it, right?
In your position, I would take a gravity reading immediately. If your assumption was correct and the gravity has not budged from brew day, I'd want to figure out the problem and address it ASAP. Did I aerate enough? Did I shock the yeast when I pitched with the wort being too warm or cold? Did I proof the yeast (dry) or make a starter (liquid) to ensure its vitality? Is there enough free amino nitrogen in the wort to support rapid propagation? If signs point to the yeast being in a bad state, I'd be off to the LHBS right away to pick up some more yeast to use and make sure I got it right this time.
If you wait 72 hours and it does start fermenting before then, well then you've wasted a perfectly good warning sign and now you're fermenting a batch with less than optimal yeast. You could have avoided this (plus underattenuation, and the resulting high levels of esters, fusel alcohols, diacetyl, etc) by repitching.
If you wait 72 hours and it does not start to ferment, you just wasted another day or two of critical time during which wild yeast and bacteria can gain a foothold, and you have to pitch new yeast anyway.
The last thing I would do is sit on my butt for 72 hours, but that's just because I tend to be proactive.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/fermentation-can-take-24-72-hrs-show-visible-signs-43635/, and by visible signs we don't necessarily mean a bubbling airlock.
It IS a sticky at the top of the beginners forum for a reason, afterall.
I've found that most "repitch situations" by new brewers are based on something superflous like lack of arlock activity, and NOT something scientific like their hydro reading. And besides, last I checked, 24 hours was about 48 hours less than the 72 hours mentioned in the sticky.....so it's really hard to know if there was any ACTUAL problems with the yeast if you didn't wait. My expericene has been that the yeast actually rarely lets us down if we trust it, and have a little paticence to give them the time they need to do what they need to do.
Also most of the time, when a brewer starting one of these threads uses the words "fermentation activity" the really mean "my airlock isn't bubbling." And that's another reason we caution them to wait 72 hours. Because more than likely PLENTY of fermentation is occuring, it just isn't bubbling the airlock.
And when they open the fermenter at the 72 hour mark to take a hydro, about 90% of those new brewers with these treads then answer "hey, there's a krausen" or "Hey my hydro reading is...... I guess there WAS fermentation happening after all."
I mean I've answered probably 5,000 of these threads if not more, and RARELY has there been a need to repitch or do anything when the 72 hours has been reached. So I find that "pitchinig proactively" is a waste of time, and money because usually the "no fermentation activity" is actually a non -issue and there has been PLENTY of fermentation activity occuring.
This is a great thread to read it is my philosophy about how I and other's believe the yeast rarely leaves us hanging... https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/stop-bashing-my-yeast-friends-192944/
It IS a sticky at the top of the beginners forum for a reason, afterall.
I've found that most "repitch situations" by new brewers are based on something superflous like lack of arlock activity, and NOT something scientific like their hydro reading. And besides, last I checked, 24 hours was about 48 hours less than the 72 hours mentioned in the sticky.....so it's really hard to know if there was any ACTUAL problems with the yeast if you didn't wait. My expericene has been that the yeast actually rarely lets us down if we trust it, and have a little paticence to give them the time they need to do what they need to do.
Also most of the time, when a brewer starting one of these threads uses the words "fermentation activity" the really mean "my airlock isn't bubbling." And that's another reason we caution them to wait 72 hours. Because more than likely PLENTY of fermentation is occuring, it just isn't bubbling the airlock.
And when they open the fermenter at the 72 hour mark to take a hydro, about 90% of those new brewers with these treads then answer "hey, there's a krausen" or "Hey my hydro reading is...... I guess there WAS fermentation happening after all."
I mean I've answered probably 5,000 of these threads if not more, and RARELY has there been a need to repitch or do anything when the 72 hours has been reached. So I find that "pitchinig proactively" is a waste of time, and money because usually the "no fermentation activity" is actually a non -issue and there has been PLENTY of fermentation activity occuring.
This is a great thread to read it is my philosophy about how I and other's believe the yeast rarely leaves us hanging... https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/stop-bashing-my-yeast-friends-192944/
Also, quite a few people have been having slow starts with nottingham lately. Waiting will probably show results.
ArcaneXor
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The 72-hour philosophy is certainly appropriate for the beginner's forum where people lack the experience to gauge fermentation process and are more likely to do damage than good by messing with their beer, but more than 36 hours without activity is an awfully long time to pass without any evidence for fermentation (beer getting lighter and more opaque, circulation, rising bubbles, kraeusen formation, positive pressure on a properly sealed airlock, etc.) for the rest of us. The yeast will eventually do the job in 95% of all cases, but the beers will almost certainly turn out sub-optimal with such a long lag time. Instead of claiming that long lags are perfectly normal and nothing to worry about, we should be informing our newbies that they need to handle their yeast properly, aerate the wort properly and pitch a sufficient amount of yeast and yeast nutrients the next time.
Agree 100%. New brewers that come on here without sufficient background knowledge can easily get the impression that long lag times and abnormal fermentations are to be expected and are not a problem. This is very far from being the truth and can lead them to disappointing results. Why not give them the whole picture and tell them what they can do to improve their beer, rather than telling them to ignore the problems? I understand that in some cases they can do more harm than good, but it is ridiculous to insinuate that a 72 lag to the start of fermentation is "normal" and downright negligent to not inform them of the potential problems when that happens.
samc
Well-Known Member
Rarely do I go to bed without seeing my fermentation starting actively from that days brew session. Liquid or dry !
72 hours, I'd have 50 crazed posts by that point ! LOL
Notty yeast needs to be rehydrated, especially with all the reported issues. I'd stick with Safale dry for the future!
72 hours, I'd have 50 crazed posts by that point ! LOL
Notty yeast needs to be rehydrated, especially with all the reported issues. I'd stick with Safale dry for the future!
Thanks for all the replies. All the info is quite interesting. I will let the beer sit till morning. Saturday the O.G. was 1.051. Tonight the beer is at 1.045. There has been no kraeusen or churning or bubbling like the last 4 batches. I did not rehydrate the yeast on any of my previous batches but had very nice tasting beers and alot of good yeast activity. Speaking of taste, after checking the O.G. tonight the beer did taste very nice.
Suthrncomfrt1884
Well-Known Member
If the gravity has gone down, then your yeast is doing it's job. Every batch will be different. Even if you did two of the exact same batches, they may not act the same during fermentation.
Yeast 1,000, Yeast Doubters and nervous noobs, once again zero. Yeast, as usual, ftw....
DuffManMississippi
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I have recently myself just come to understand the ways of yeast. I had a problem similar to Woodro. I pitch WhiteLabs liquid yeast took 72 hours to start. I then learned my first and second mistakes. Aerate your beer well and make you yeast happy! They are your friends , so be nice to them and they will nice to you. Starters and Re hydration ! Liquids and Drys. Get them up and active before you put them into your brew. It would seem to be a waste to do everything else 110% and then just toss your yeast in and hope for the best.
Similar problem I have been having . The only difference between me and this poster is that I left my yeast out on a day I thought I was going to brew, and it got pretty warm . The I popped it back into the fridge after it sat at room temp for 4 hours. The activator packet was already smacked and when I pitched it, it looked more of a tan color rather than white. 36 hours, no gravity change , no krausen, and no bubbles. I don't want to go buy more liquid yeast, but I have a packet of dry ale yeast that I am considering pitching if this wyeast hefe strain doesn't kick in within the first 72 hrs. I know different yeasts produce different tastes, but other than that , is it safe? Or not a good idea? I have a hunch this yeast will fall within that 5% of yeasts that don't come through due to the temp changes back and forth. And just so no one asks, yes I aerated, and pitched at the right temp. Thanks for the help!
samc
Well-Known Member
That temp change should not have killed off the yeast. You may not get optimal results from it but I'd bet it is still alive. It is similar to creating a starter which you did by smacking the pack and then many put the starter into the fridge to decant the liquid off the yeast. Just might take longer to kick in.
Hold out for awhile and check the gravity in another day.
Hold out for awhile and check the gravity in another day.
My doubts are getting less. This morning there is some visible evidence of churning and bubbling and a very small layer of kraeusen. I will check it again tonight. this forum is very helpful. Thanks to all the senior members. what a wealth of knowledge! I'll keep you all posted to my porter's progress. Woodro.
ArcaneXor
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I wouldn't taste an unfermented beer/wort that has been sitting around for more than a few hours and hasn't shown any signs of activity. There is a small chance for food poisoning if you do that. Once fermentation starts, the alcohol produced will quickly kill off most bacteria.
Yeast 1,000, Yeast Doubters and nervous noobs, once again zero. Yeast, as usual, ftw....
I wouldn't call myself a yeast doubter. I am a yeast health advocate.
Again, I said it is not uncommon for fermentation to take 72 hours to start, but when it happens, it is ALWAYS for a reason - furthermore, it is definitely less than ideal and 100% preventable. Yeast are not mysterious organisms. Brewing science has taken us a long way and we no longer have to sit in wonder and awe at the great mysteries of fermentation. We know how these things work at this point, and there are good explanations for the behaviors of yeast. If you have a 3-day lag period, it is for a reason - your yeasts are either unhealthy or they are in a poor environment. It is not some act of God.
Odds are you will still make beer, of course, but you've also really jeopardized the most important stage in beer making - fermentation. Be ready for diacetyl, fusel alcohols, higher esters, and other funky off flavors that may or may not decrease with time because your yeasts had to struggle their way through fermentation.
The whole point of this is that it is easily avoided if you take the right steps by pitching healthy yeast and give them an ideal environment. The importance of a healthy fermentation cannot be overstated. If you have an opportunity to correct it, it is in the interest of the beer quality to do so.
I harp on this a lot for two reasons relating to my own experience. One, I've spent a good part of my career working in microbiology labs. Much of my understanding of yeast metabolism and fermentation comes from this experience and my educational background. When I see yeast behaving oddly, my inclination is to figure out why it is happening and correct it rather than surrender my beer's fate to the brewing gods.
The other major reason I emphasize this is from my experience judging at BJCP competitions. Most often I find that the majority of off-flavors typically stem from fermentation flaws that could have been avoided. Similarly, when tasting homebrews at club meetings and discussing with the brewers, the same off flavors almost always come down to fermentation issues.
Ultimately, if you want to make the best beer you can, a laissez-faire approach is not the way to go. It is critical to do everything you can to give you yeast the best conditions possible. Part of this is recognizing warning signs (like a 36 hour lag time) and addressing them (like NOT waiting another 36 hours for either an unhealthy fermentation or no fermentation at all).
I say this over and over....In all the years of brewing, I have never had yeast fail to start on me. Regardless of whether it was liquid or dry, made with a starter or pitched from the tube/smack pack, rehydrated or sprinkled on, brand new yeast or out of date yeast, or several year old jarred yeast, hot or cold yeast or any other condition many of you use to "blame" your yeast for not jumping through hoops immediately on your command.
I have had just about every condition of yeast you all can think of, and they ALL have started for me.
I've never had a yeast not working for me by about the 80 hour mark....They've ALL done their jobs. The worst I've ever had was some 1.020 or 1.030 "curses" with extract batches....But I've never had a yeast not start for me....
So why am I so different???? How come my yeast always performs for me, and so many others don't?????
That's why I posted THIS in the shipping yeast.
I'll say this again if you CHOOSE not to wait the 72 hours, then you don't really KNOW if your yeast is alive or not....It's funny, those that do wait, 95% of them come back and report that's everything's fine...and tend to be converts from the "yeast doubters" to the RDWHAHB contingent....
And just because you don't "SEE" your supposed signs of fermentation, doesn't mean your yeast aren't working in those 72 hours, more than likely they are reproducing and doing some fementing already, so your beer is NOT at risk for as much contamination as you might think. You wort is just not sitting there screaming "infect me infect me I'm vulnerable." Your yeast is doing plenty....
And I don't HAVE a llaissez-faire approach to my brewing....In fact I've taken a few medal for my brewing, EVEN for beers that took 72 hours to start....SO I must be doing something right.
I have had just about every condition of yeast you all can think of, and they ALL have started for me.
I've never had a yeast not working for me by about the 80 hour mark....They've ALL done their jobs. The worst I've ever had was some 1.020 or 1.030 "curses" with extract batches....But I've never had a yeast not start for me....
So why am I so different???? How come my yeast always performs for me, and so many others don't?????
That's why I posted THIS in the shipping yeast.
I honestly wonder what criteria some of you use to declare your yeast DOA? Since many brewers go by things like airlocks not bubbling as opposed to using a hydro and declare their brew ruined. Or smack a smack pack and if it doesn't inflate (which even on the wyyeast website says is not a necessity. I ask, how many of you are making a starter with your liquid yeast? And how many of you who make starters are, like many of the "my starter isn't working" thread creator folks are looking for the wrong signs on their starters, and when we point out the correct signs to them they realize their starters are indeed fine. And how many of you, whether you make a starter or not are waiting the 72 hours that we mention, and confirming the beer's not fermenting with a hydrometer.
In other words how many of you are treating the yeast properly on your end?
So many new brewers start threads here complaining there's somethign wrong and going by or not doing the above things, declaring their yeast dead, then when we tell them to take a hydrometer, they come back and say "ooops you were right, everyhting is fine."
If you haven't made a starter, haven't waited 72 hours after yeast pitch, and haven't confirmed the yeast isn't working with a hydrometer reading then you haven't proven to me, or yourselves more importantly that your yeast is truly dead or truly damaged on arrival.
Like Brewham has proven, by the simple act of making a starter that the yeast HE had shipped in the mail, in the heat of summer, was perfectly fine.
I'm not doubting that everyone's yeast isn't dead...only some. But if you are not using good breweing processes to begin with, then you can't really know what your yeast is doing, wheter it's viable or not.
Good brewing practice, especially where liquid yeast is involved requires making a starter for ALL liquid yeast, and for every beer above 1.020 OG. But regardless of OG, making a starter proves your yeast is viable or not it also reproduces ANY living cells in the yeast, just like how we harvest yeast from a bottle of beer, where only a few cells may be viable. Incrememntally feeding a starter, makes enough yeast to do the job.
Just for the mere fact that your yeast may not be in the best shape when it gets to you, should be reason enough to make a starter.
Starters may or may not krausen, and often like in a fermenter of beer, an airlcok may not bubble whatsoever. But you will see flocculated yeast in the bottom of your vessel.
Yeast often takes 72 hours after yeast pitch to form a krausen, or to make a noticeable drop in gravity...So that's why there is a sticky at the top of the beginners forum stating that. Many many times a new brewer will open their bucket on the third day, and find a krausen, or they take a hydro reading and it has dropped, and everythign is fine (99% of those "Stuck/stopped fermentation threads on here, end that why, with the Op seeing everything is fine.)
An airlock is a valve to release excess co2 not a fermentation gauge, it may or may not bubble at all, or it may stop bubbling long before the yeast is done doing it's job. To truly know what is going on, YOU MUST use a hydometer, that is the only accurate way to know what your yeast is doing.
If you HAVE made a starter, if you DID wait 72 hours after pitching, and you DID take a hydro reading, and your yeast didn't take off (though if you made a starter you prolly already new) then I am sorry for your loss, but I maintain that you are in the minority.
But if you didn't make a starter to beging with, or you went by airlcok bubbling, or you didn't wait 72 hours, or of equal importance to making a starter didn't use your hydrometer, then you are not handling the yeast properly.
Becasue you didn't give the yeast a good head start to begin with, to have the best chance of survival off the bat. With a starter even one or 2 surviving cells in your hot packet could be made into enough yeast to do the job.
And also you don't really know whether or not your yeast was dead to begin with...
And if you're not doing those basic things mentioned above, then you are really wasting your money to begin with....
I'll say it again, if yeast can sit for 45 million years encased in amber http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/magazine/17-08/ff_primordial_yeast then more times than not it WILL survive the journey to your home from the store.
Just make sure YOU do the best for it when it gets there!
I'll say this again if you CHOOSE not to wait the 72 hours, then you don't really KNOW if your yeast is alive or not....It's funny, those that do wait, 95% of them come back and report that's everything's fine...and tend to be converts from the "yeast doubters" to the RDWHAHB contingent....
And just because you don't "SEE" your supposed signs of fermentation, doesn't mean your yeast aren't working in those 72 hours, more than likely they are reproducing and doing some fementing already, so your beer is NOT at risk for as much contamination as you might think. You wort is just not sitting there screaming "infect me infect me I'm vulnerable." Your yeast is doing plenty....
And I don't HAVE a llaissez-faire approach to my brewing....In fact I've taken a few medal for my brewing, EVEN for beers that took 72 hours to start....SO I must be doing something right.
Whether the yeast is alive is beside the point, as I have said several times now. A 36 hour lag is indicative of an unhealthy fermentation and a warning sign of off-flavors to come that could be avoided, even if it does eventually start up. Why do you keep minimizing the importance of a healthy fermentation?
In the future, there is no need for you to post any quotes or links just for me, Revvy, as they are all recycled. Anyone that has been on this forum for a week has seen it all a dozen times by now.
In the future, there is no need for you to post any quotes or links just for me, Revvy, as they are all recycled. Anyone that has been on this forum for a week has seen it all a dozen times by now.
In your opinion it is indicative of unhealthy yeast but a hellovalot of us seem to disagree with you (including the folks who put that sitcky up there all those years ago to being with)...and will keep disgreeing with you, and will keep posting this...We aren't minimizing the importance of a healthy fermentation one bit....Yeast lag time is NORMAL.....
And we probably will keep winning awards with our "supposedly" unhealthy yeast brewed beers. Because OUR fermentations seem to be doing just fine as they are.....
In your opinion it is indicative of unhealthy yeast but a hellovalot of us seem to disagree with you (including the folks who put that sitcky up there all those years ago to being with)...and will keep disgreeing with you, and will keep posting this...And probably will keep winning awards with our "supposedly" unhealthy yeast brewed beers. Because OUR fermentations seem to be doing just fine as they are.....
My opinion is backed by a massive amount of literature in a field called brewing science, which a lot of people (the helluvalot you refer to) on this forum ignore for some reason. The literature is there for a reason, and it does not lie.
For those who choose to make up their alternate reality of brewing science and practice, their beers turn out fine sometimes, and other times they certainly do not. All I'm advocating is to do everything you can to eliminate the factors that might lead to potential problems. There is no downside to doing this beyond a bit more work. Yeast lag time exceeding 36 hours is NOT NORMAL - it is indicative of some underlying issue compromising the yeast vitality, and it is always in your best interest to fix it. Again, yeasts are simple, predictable organisms, and if they behave oddly, it is for a reason.
From my perspective, your opinion is subjective and anecdotal, while mine is grounded in peer-reviewed literature and the scientific method. Ultimately I believe this is a man of science vs man of faith debate and I don't think we're going to get anywhere with it.
And yet we so so little of your "fellow scientists" on here jumping in to agree with you about the idea that 72 hour lag means unhealthy yeast.....Plenty of them advocate waiting as well.....
And like I've said repeatedly, Just because a new brewer THINKS there's no activity, because 99% of the time THEY are defining this supposed activity as airlock bubbling, doesn't mean the yeast isn't working it means they are suing the WRONG criteria to determine what their yeast is doing.....the yeast IS more than likely working like it should be, they just don't KNOW, their yeast isn't working....
Believe what you want Kev....if it works for you, fine....But I'm going to keep doing what I've been doing for the last 22,000 posts, helping the new brewer to not doubt the yeast. And as long as I still get 99% of those "no activity" brewers coming back and saying that when they opened their fermenter near the 72 hour mark, they actually saw krausen, OR had a drop in their gravity...I'm going to keep doing what I've been doing...and so are the other folks who point to the 72 hour sticky and tell folks to relax.
*Yawn* I'm done with this kev...the OP has "activity" and is happy now.......
And like I've said repeatedly, Just because a new brewer THINKS there's no activity, because 99% of the time THEY are defining this supposed activity as airlock bubbling, doesn't mean the yeast isn't working it means they are suing the WRONG criteria to determine what their yeast is doing.....the yeast IS more than likely working like it should be, they just don't KNOW, their yeast isn't working....
Believe what you want Kev....if it works for you, fine....But I'm going to keep doing what I've been doing for the last 22,000 posts, helping the new brewer to not doubt the yeast. And as long as I still get 99% of those "no activity" brewers coming back and saying that when they opened their fermenter near the 72 hour mark, they actually saw krausen, OR had a drop in their gravity...I'm going to keep doing what I've been doing...and so are the other folks who point to the 72 hour sticky and tell folks to relax.
*Yawn* I'm done with this kev...the OP has "activity" and is happy now.......
First of all, science is not a democratic process. There are some people on this thread that agreed with me, and some that agreed with you. I'm aware that many on this board share your philosophy. It does not make them right.
There are two points I made in just about every post on this thread that you seem to be working very hard to not catch.
1) Take a hydrometer reading first. I said this on my first post in the thread. There is no reason to break out the airlock bubble mantra because it is irrelevant.
2) I'm not saying that 36 hours and no krausen means there will not be fermentation. I'm saying that a 36-72 lag is an UNHEALTHY fermentation for an ale. Even Palmer, who you so frequently champion, puts a heavy emphasis on the importance of good fermentation and giving the yeast everything they need to not just do the job, but do it right. Yeasts have very basic metabolic needs (such as adequate levels of oxygen and free amino nitrogen), and it is a very basic tenet of good brewing technique to ensure that these needs are met.
You and other brewers on here are completely free to do things the way you want. The only thing that bothers me to see new brewers come on here who obviously have a problematic fermentation on their hands, and rather than emphasizing or even mentioning that their yeasts might be struggling a bit, you tell them to ignore it.
It is an odd groupthink phenomenom that seems to be unique to HBT. I travel in many circles related to brewing, and of the various homebrew clubs I've participated in, the many online forums, the commercial brewers I've met, and the BJCP events I've been to, this is the only place that seems to think a 72 hour lag to fermentation is "normal" or nothing to be concerned about.
There are two points I made in just about every post on this thread that you seem to be working very hard to not catch.
1) Take a hydrometer reading first. I said this on my first post in the thread. There is no reason to break out the airlock bubble mantra because it is irrelevant.
2) I'm not saying that 36 hours and no krausen means there will not be fermentation. I'm saying that a 36-72 lag is an UNHEALTHY fermentation for an ale. Even Palmer, who you so frequently champion, puts a heavy emphasis on the importance of good fermentation and giving the yeast everything they need to not just do the job, but do it right. Yeasts have very basic metabolic needs (such as adequate levels of oxygen and free amino nitrogen), and it is a very basic tenet of good brewing technique to ensure that these needs are met.
You and other brewers on here are completely free to do things the way you want. The only thing that bothers me to see new brewers come on here who obviously have a problematic fermentation on their hands, and rather than emphasizing or even mentioning that their yeasts might be struggling a bit, you tell them to ignore it.
It is an odd groupthink phenomenom that seems to be unique to HBT. I travel in many circles related to brewing, and of the various homebrew clubs I've participated in, the many online forums, the commercial brewers I've met, and the BJCP events I've been to, this is the only place that seems to think a 72 hour lag to fermentation is "normal" or nothing to be concerned about.
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Mine too! :cross:
But I've learned that it is futile to argue with Revvy. He'll out post and out shout you every time. If you say something enough times and loud enough it doesn't have to be true, but the masses will follow. I salute your efforts, but in the end it's easier to let Revvy have his little piece of fame. Eventually most brewers will see the reality of this and other Revvy cut-and-paste replies.
Suthrncomfrt1884
Well-Known Member
So...as Revvy pointed out, the OP has activity now. It took 48 hours to see visible signs, but who knows if the gravity had dropped after 24. I don't see 24 hours as a sign of healthy yeast.
Hell, I just brewed a 1.048 gravity beer saturday that didn't show "visible signs" for close to 60 hours. I made a starter, it was good yeast, but I still didn't see signs. I checked my gravity after 48 hours though and saw that the gravity had dropped 5-6 points. I think Revvy is right in telling people to wait...because MOST of these people are relying on an airlock to tell them when their beer is fermenting.
If we knew someone was doing hydrometer readings and still didn't have a drop in gravity after 24-48 hours, then I'd think it's unhealthy yeast.
Hell, I just brewed a 1.048 gravity beer saturday that didn't show "visible signs" for close to 60 hours. I made a starter, it was good yeast, but I still didn't see signs. I checked my gravity after 48 hours though and saw that the gravity had dropped 5-6 points. I think Revvy is right in telling people to wait...because MOST of these people are relying on an airlock to tell them when their beer is fermenting.
If we knew someone was doing hydrometer readings and still didn't have a drop in gravity after 24-48 hours, then I'd think it's unhealthy yeast.
Thanks for the heads up. Would not like to get sick from drinking beer. (HA, HA) The smell was to tempting not to imbibe.
Getting very good fermentation now. My 6 1/2 gal. glass carboy is going crazy right now! It took approximately 60 hrs to get started. I will really need to read up on doing a starter yeast next time i brew. I was told by a expierienced all grain brewer that if you do have a beer that does not get going after the 72 hr. mark, that you can just reboil your wort for a couple minutes, then restart the whole process? What do you all think of that? He also told me that you can't put too much yeast into your wort. (I put 3 packets into my Porter).
ArcaneXor
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Boom! 2 satchels of bad-batch Notty (the Denmark satchels with the holes in them) pitched at 9:00 this morning at 69 degrees into my session wheat, now at 67.5 degrees and showing initial signs of fermentation. Expecting bubbles from my blow-off tube by bedtime tonight. Pitching more yeast, using a high-quality yeast nutrient and shaking the hell out of the fermenter does make a huge difference!
Well, I wouldn't reboil my wort. I use some later hops, for flavoring and aroma, and reboiling would ruin that. With good sanitation, you could probably exceed the 72 hours without an infection, but it would make me nervous. I'd probably go 48 hours before checking with a hydrometer, and then repitching. Keep in mind, though, that I'd never drop just one vial of White Labs yeast into a 1.080 wort and expert fermentation before 48 hours or longer- pitching the correct amount of healthy yeast would be a key to a shorter lag time.
You CAN put too much yeast into your wort, but it's not likely to happen unless you go crazy and use way too much. Check out the pitching calculator at mrmalty.com- it's a great resource. Two packages of yeast (11 gram size) are probably too much for most ales of "regular" strength. Three would be overkill. Too much yeast is probably not as harmful as too little, but pitching the correct amount produces the best flavors in beer.
DuffManMississippi
Well-Known Member
Good to see things worked out. Remember don't worry so much, worrying will ruin your beer.
Well , I am still having a problem with my beer. 48 hours and still no hydro change . I re pitched with a differest strain of yeast . It was dry danstar munich yeast I had leftover from earlier in the year. Originally I had pitched wyeast am hefe strain (I don't recall the exact name or #) . I didn't rehydrate the dry yeast and I have never done a starter before. I hope this yeast will start soon because tomorrow it will be 72 hours since pitching and I'm worried about infection . Ill keep everyone posted on when I see any gravity change, bubbles, krausen or airlock activity. . . . Any problems with mixing yeast strains even though they are similar in nature? Dumb question, but because I added 36 oz's of raspberries to theend of my boil having any effect on starting fermentation?
Suthrncomfrt1884
Well-Known Member
No...not making a starter is probably what's causing the lag.
Mixing yeast isn't an issue, but you may end up with a little different beer than you expected.
I've had one infection in the last 4 years, and that was from improper cleaning. I had a lager take 6 days before I saw a gravity drop and it still turned out fine. The 6 days was because I didn't make a starter (first lager).
I'm reposting this question to this thread since it is in the same category. I was going to make a Guinness clone Friday night but realized my Mash Tun needed some tweaking to fix leaks. I had already popped the activator on my Wyeast an hour or so prior to realizing this. I put the Wyeast into the fridge and did not take it out until Sunday around 3-4ish and let it sit for another 3 hours. The wyeast ouch expanded like normal. I pitched the yeast after cooling. It had been almost 24 hours and no fermentation.
Obviously people say wait. I was wondering if it is POSSIBLE that refrigerating the yeast pouch after popping the activator either damaged or maybe put the yeast into a deep sleep?
Obviously people say wait. I was wondering if it is POSSIBLE that refrigerating the yeast pouch after popping the activator either damaged or maybe put the yeast into a deep sleep?
Suthrncomfrt1884
Well-Known Member
You'll be fine. I recently picked up a pack of wyeast from the LHBS and halfway home I realized it was swelled up and the pack inside had already been broken. I stuck it in the fridge for 2 days, pulled it out before I started brewing and used it. I normally make starters, but this beer was spur of the moment. It took a little longer to get started, but it was chugging away after a few days.
This should be stickied onto my forehead. I had someone check on the Guinness clone while I was at work (still am at work right now) and said that the krausening has commensed and it's burping away!
Why oh why did I have to post something on here asking for support? Oh I know why....because you guys are so awesome!
Why oh why did I have to post something on here asking for support? Oh I know why....because you guys are so awesome!
RavenChief
Well-Known Member
I am advocating "proofing" of yeast especially Danstar Nottingham prior to pitching. If you do this you may never pitch "questionable yeast" ever again.
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