GF Mocha Stout

I'll be freeing up my GF primary this weekend, so it's time to think about GF Brew Number Two. SWMBO is asking for a stout, and she loves coffee, so I thought a coffee stout would be a good way to go. I'm looking for it to have a bit of whimsy, so why not go with a little cocoa and make it a mocha? I've got a bunch of nugget, so I'll bitter with that, and maybe finish up with a little EKG.

Here's my first take on a recipe - I'd appreciate your feedback.


I haven't used Dark Candi Syrup before, but from what I've read it's quite successful in GF brews. Some folks add at flameout or just prior, others add to primary after fermentation has kicked off. It seems both are successful, and if that's the case, I'm leaning toward adding in last 5 min or so of the boil. Thoughts on that?

Has anyone confirmed with Dark Candi, Inc that D1 or D2 Syrups are GF? I've sent an email asking, and will share their response when I get it.

As always, thanks for the help.

Candi sugar is essentially beet sugar. Beets produce no gluten.

Aunt_Ester said:

Candi sugar is essentially beet sugar. Beets produce no gluten.

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Yes indeed. However, many products which one would not expect to include any gluten are contaminated with gluten during processing. For example, cuts of beef can be packed in wheat flour when shipped, or injected with a solution containing gluten to extend shelf life and enhance color. Corn tortillas with no ingredients containing gluten can be processed on lines that also produce wheat products. "Natural Flavors," a common ingredient in many foods, can be derived from grains containing gluten. And don't get me started on "flourless chocolate cake..."

You can ask the manufacturer.

Or you can just make your own https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/20-lb-sugar-jar-yeast-nutrient-114837/

Yep, I did email the manufacturer - I'll let you know what I hear.

And I have read that thread on making your own. I'd prefer to avoid that if I can - I've done candy work before and it's a PITA.

How did this come out?

Thanks for asking, Alchemy. I just bottled it last weekend, and first impressions are very good. No sorghum twang at all, a slight hint of cocoa and a rich coffee base. Splitting the base between Sorghum and Brown Rice did the trick, but don't forget to add DAP if you go that route.

I gave most of the sample to SWMBO, who is the resident Celiac, who loved it.

I made a number of modifications to the recipe:You'll notice that I added an additional 3 oz of Cacao Nibs 2 days before bottling when I added the cold brewed coffee. I tasted the gravity sample before adding the coffee and wasn't confident the cocoa flavor would stand up to the coffee. Next time, I'll try 6 oz. into secondary rather than 4 and see if that does the trick.

I had neglected to set the trub loss correctly in beersmith (I'm used to 5 gal batches) and ended up using too much water, so my color and IBUs were a few points lower (28 and 62, respectively). Measured OG/FG: 1.069/1.014 for an ABV of 7.3% and attenuation of 79.7%. I'll update again in a few weeks once carbed up.

Also - on the question of whether the Candi Syrup was GF - Dark Candi, Inc. (D, D2) never responded to my emails but I found that Candi Syrup, Inc.'s product (D-90, D-180) is GF. See http://www.candisyrup.com/faq.html.

And, if you're wondering, SWMBO is the Laughing Dancer.

Awesome, thank you for the update!

I have a friend who has recently come to the conclusion that she is allergic to gluten and also to hops.

Any suggestions on what i could do to replace the hops on this recipe?

That's an interesting challenge, Alchemy. I did a quick search, and there are threads on alternative bittering - start here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/alternative-bittering-117152/.

Depending on what coffee/roast you choose and the method of brewing it, some bitterness will come from that. You might want to get a bunch of bitter aromatics and have a tea tasting and aroma smelling session with your friend. Brew her favorite coffee, and experiment with the smells and tastes and see what she likes - sort of like making a custom gin (See "Oz & James Drink to Britain" on YouTube - James May makes up a custom gin by selecting the aromatics that he enjoys.) How you would translate those to IBUs, however, is something I have no idea about - but I'd bet if you post this to the brew science forum you might get one of those lab coat guys to give you some pointers...

Keep us posted on how you make out, I'm very interested to hear how it goes.

The acidity of the coffee will also play into the flavor notes.

Also, I haven't had any issue with long term storage of beer on cocoa nibs. It developed deeper chocolate flavors as it stayed on there. I did something similar last year, and it's actually been sitting there, in a keg, barely touched, for over a year now.

I just wish I had put in the maltodextrin or lactose early on when I had considered doing so since mine is pretty thin without it, but I wasn't sure how much to do.

KevinM said:

Also, I haven't had any issue with long term storage of beer on cocoa nibs. It developed deeper chocolate flavors as it stayed on there.

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Thanks Kevin, that's good to know. I don't keg, but when I brew this again I may leave it in secondary for a month or more to really develop the cocoa backbone.

rv9aguy said:

That's an interesting challenge, Alchemy. I did a quick search, and there are threads on alternative bittering - start here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/alternative-bittering-117152/.

Depending on what coffee/roast you choose and the method of brewing it, some bitterness will come from that. You might want to get a bunch of bitter aromatics and have a tea tasting and aroma smelling session with your friend. Brew her favorite coffee, and experiment with the smells and tastes and see what she likes - sort of like making a custom gin (See "Oz & James Drink to Britain" on YouTube - James May makes up a custom gin by selecting the aromatics that he enjoys.) How you would translate those to IBUs, however, is something I have no idea about - but I'd bet if you post this to the brew science forum you might get one of those lab coat guys to give you some pointers...

Keep us posted on how you make out, I'm very interested to hear how it goes.

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I think I might double the cocau and the coffee and hot brew the coffee for bitterness to replace hops. I will need to find out from her what kind of coffee she prefers. Did you mash the ots or rice or anything or boil them?

Welcome. Originally I just went "Ah, it won't be in there *that* long" so I dumped the nibs into the keg. Well over a year later, 1/4th left and at this point, dreading finishing it off.

Alchemy said:

Did you mash the oats or rice or anything or boil them?

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Sorry - it was rice syrup, not rice - I'll correct that in the OP. As for the oats and buckwheat, I just steeped them for about 25 minutes at 150 -155. Both the oats and buckwheat were from Bob's Red Mill and I roasted the buckwheat myself.

interesting article about ow coffee cross-reacts with gluten...

http://drclark.typepad.com/dr_david_clark/2011/09/coffee-and-gluten-sensitivity-surprising-news.html

jman said:

interesting article about ow coffee cross-reacts with gluten...

http://drclark.typepad.com/dr_david_clark/2011/09/coffee-and-gluten-sensitivity-surprising-news.html

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website wont open for me, what did it say?

I didn't read it, but I imagine it discusses that coffee can be cross reactive with gluten for some individuals. This has been generally known in the GF community for a couple of years. Effectively, there is a protein in coffee that is not gluten, but some people's autoimmune system will mistake it for gluten and attack it. For those individuals, drinking coffee can trigger the gluten reaction.

There are a number of foods that can be cross-reactive with gluten, including cow's milk, chocolate, cheese, and pretty much everything we brew GF with: sorghum, amaranth, buckwheat, quinoa, corn, oats, rice, potato and yeast. Additionally, Leaky Gut Syndrome, which is commonly caused by long term ingestion of gluten by Celiacs, can cause the sufferer to develop allergies to the foods they most often eat - even if those foods are not cross reactive with gluten.

So, basically, drinking GF beer by someone who is not aware of their own personal cross-reactivity issues can make them sick. Most folks who live with Celiac Disease have had food allergy tests and keep, or have kept, food diaries to identify what they react with. It's a good idea for anyone with gluten intolerance to do that.

thats the gist of it. strange that the link doesnt work when you click it, but if you copy/paste it into your browser, it should be fine.