Malt Extract

Vance71975 · Aug 30, 2011

Just wondering if anyone else thinks similar to me on this one. I switched to all grain because of the way extracts are made, when i go to brew a wheat beer, i want a 100% wheat Base, not a 65/35 wheat and pale. Same with Rye malt(since there is now an extract for it) but its 70% 2-row, 20% malted rye, and 10% caramel 40 malt. What is wrong with these makers that they cant put out a 100% wheat malt extract or 100% rye Or 100% Munich, why do they feel they must cut it with pale malt!

unionrdr · Aug 30, 2011

As I understand it,they have to be cut with other malts to perform properly.

Mpavlik22 · Aug 30, 2011

Vance71975 said:
Just wondering if anyone else thinks similar to me on this one. I switched to all grain because of the way extracts are made, when i go to brew a wheat beer, i want a 100% wheat Base, not a 65/35 wheat and pale. Same with Rye malt(since there is now an extract for it) but its 70% 2-row, 20% malted rye, and 10% caramel 40 malt. What is wrong with these makers that they cant put out a 100% wheat malt extract or 100% rye Or 100% Munich, why do they feel they must cut it with pale malt!

This is why I did two batches of extract and moved on to AG. Not saying anything bad about extract, but AG opens a whole new world of possibilities.

Vance71975 · Aug 30, 2011

Mpavlik22 said:
This is why I did two batches of extract and moved on to AG. Not saying anything bad about extract, but AG opens a whole new world of possibilities.

I did a few more than 2 but moved on for the same reason, i have done all rye, all Oat, All wheat and never had a single problem, i mean i play it safe, do a protein rest, and use a crap ton of rice hulls, but i have never had anywhere close to a stuck sparge or stuck mash.

Toga · Aug 30, 2011

unionrdr said:
As I understand it,they have to be cut with other malts to perform properly.

Excellent way to dumb it down. Wheat malt and rye malt lack Amylase enzyme for proper conversion from starch to sugar by them selves which is why the companies that are manufacturing the malt extract use a percentage of two row. The other grains used for their process well they are used to get their extract to "style" whether it is light, extra light, dark, or other. Each company uses their own recipe which also accounts for the variation in flavor from one brand to another.

Germelli1 · Aug 30, 2011

Toga said:
Excellent way to dumb it down. Wheat malt and rye malt lack Amylase enzyme for proper conversion from starch to sugar by them selves which is why the companies that are manufacturing the malt extract use a percentage of two row. The other grains used for their process well they are used to get their extract to "style" whether it is light, extra light, dark, or other. Each company uses their own recipe which also accounts for the variation in flavor from one brand to another.

Can you explain this a little more? Both wheat and rye malts have enough diastatic power to be used as base malts in recipes. True, barley has a slightly higher diastatic power then rye, but rye has even more amylase than barley!

I just don't understand why they couldn't make a pure extract with wither rye or wheat...unless they are worried about stuck sparges

unionrdr · Aug 30, 2011

I tried to explain it simply from what I understand of AG so far. I'm still learning all that stuff myself. But it seems to me rye soaks up a lot of water,from what I read here.

JefeTheVol · Aug 30, 2011

Maybe its because most American Rye Pale Ale recipes call for around 20% rye when you are formulating an AG batch. The trouble with the rye syrup is when you want to make a Roggenbier(or any recipe of your choice) which requires 50-65% rye in the grist.

Also, rye can get gummy in AG batches; having the rye syrup keeps you from risking a stuck sparge.
-Jefe-

Vance71975 · Sep 4, 2011

Toga said:
Excellent way to dumb it down. Wheat malt and rye malt lack Amylase enzyme for proper conversion from starch to sugar by them selves which is why the companies that are manufacturing the malt extract use a percentage of two row. The other grains used for their process well they are used to get their extract to "style" whether it is light, extra light, dark, or other. Each company uses their own recipe which also accounts for the variation in flavor from one brand to another.

Actually, Rye,Wheat,And Oat malt all have plenty of DP to self convert, its only when using other grains with them that you need help with conversion. For Example, Any of the above with Amber malt,Honey Malt,Biscuit Malt,etc etc. But If you go say Oat Malt with a pound of crystal,1/4 lb Black Patent you will have a nice Oat Porter.

BigEd · Sep 4, 2011

Vance71975 said:
Just wondering if anyone else thinks similar to me on this one. I switched to all grain because of the way extracts are made, when i go to brew a wheat beer, i want a 100% wheat Base, not a 65/35 wheat and pale. Same with Rye malt(since there is now an extract for it) but its 70% 2-row, 20% malted rye, and 10% caramel 40 malt. What is wrong with these makers that they cant put out a 100% wheat malt extract or 100% rye Or 100% Munich, why do they feel they must cut it with pale malt!

A wheat beer with 100% wheat would be quite bland. That's one reason why barley malt is blended with wheat in commercial brews. The barley also provided husks, wheat malt has none, which are necessary for the mash bed to set and drain. Rye is the same story as far as husks go with the added chapter that excessive amounts of rye wind up giving beer a strange, slimy texture. So go ahead and try it for yourself. You will probably come to the same conclusion that the brewing world has over the last five thousand years. 100% Munich beers are another story and they are made by both commercial and home brewers. Just make sure to use real German Munich, not the domestic stuff which is really more of a specialty malt.

Vance71975 · Sep 8, 2011

BigEd said:
A wheat beer with 100% wheat would be quite bland. That's one reason why barley malt is blended with wheat in commercial brews. The barley also provided husks, wheat malt has none, which are necessary for the mash bed to set and drain. Rye is the same story as far as husks go with the added chapter that excessive amounts of rye wind up giving beer a strange, slimy texture. So go ahead and try it for yourself. You will probably come to the same conclusion that the brewing world has over the last five thousand years. 100% Munich beers are another story and they are made by both commercial and home brewers. Just make sure to use real German Munich, not the domestic stuff which is really more of a specialty malt.

Actually i have done 100% rye,wheat,and oat beers, and been nothing but pleased with the results. Granted, when i say 100% i mean the base grain, i still use Crystal malts etc with them, except for the rye, that was rye malt,crystal rye, and chocolate rye.

Malt Extract

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