LHBS pricing

OK HBT, help me out with a little issue. I have a LHBS that got me into brewing originally, and is a decent store overall. I like it well enough, but the problem for me now is the prices. They charge $2.50/lb for all grains and $4-$4.50/oz for hops. I can get grain for half the price and a POUND of hops for the same money they charge me for 2-3oz. The Wyeast packs are $10-$11, which isn't so bad, but dry yeast (Notty, Fermentis packs) run $4.50 per packet for the cheapest ones. I know shopping online is cheaper, if you know where to look, but this strikes me as extreme. This didn't matter so much when I was brewing just a little, but I find myself brewing once a month anymore, and the costs are adding up. Help me put this in perspective:

What do your LHBSs charge for grain & hops? Yeast?

Would you do most of your shopping online, too, if you had to pay these prices?

That's pretty high. Grain here is $1.35-2.10/pound. $2-3 /oz hops. Smackpacks are $7. Dry yeast is $2-4. I'd probably shop online, at least for hops if you still want to give them some business.

I guess it depends on where you live. If you're in the middle of nowhere then it's probably a combination of high shipping costs for the LHBS and them taking advantage of being the only shop around. Another concern would be the freshness of the grains, hops and yeast if they don't turn inventory over quickly enough. We are dealing with perishable goods that often don't have an expiration date stamped on them (grains, hops).

Those prices are ridiculously high. If I was faced with those prices I wouldn't think twice about buying online.

I use my LHBS for odds and ends, for little things I need and don't want to pay shipping for. Recipes, I get online.

Those prices seem a bit high. However, I am a firm believer in supporting local businesses. If it's a good store with fresh ingredients and a knowledgeable staff I would continue to shop there for heavy bulky items and things like liquid yeast.

Do they offer a frequent buyer punch card or a club member discount?

In Canada I pay 1.50/lb for grains, 2.00-2.50/oz for hops (cheaper in bulk) and $10 for smack packs.

$10 for a smack pack is way too much. Prices do seem high for your ingredients. As much as I like to support the local shop, I'd do all my shopping online if they had these prices.

cascadia said:

Those prices seem a bit high. However, I am a firm believer in supporting local businesses. If it's a good store with fresh ingredients and a knowledgeable staff I would continue to shop there for heavy bulky items and things like liquid yeast.

Do they offer a frequent buyer punch card or a club member discount?

Click to expand...

I, too, am a firm believer in supporting local businesses. But those prices are off the charts compared to our local suppliers. Then again - I can't speak for the norm in the OP's area. If I felt the shop was constrained by the reality of their situation & forced to charge those prices to stay in business, I'd spend my $$ there. But they'd better darned well know their stuff in that case.

I had the same problem. The closest LHBS charged 30-50% more than online. The only decent place was quite a drive away and they charged 15-35% more. I ended up shopping online for most things but still tossed the local stores a few bones for convenience. Now Brewmaster's Warehouse is my LHBS so it's win win

Sounds like someone needs to open up a more competitive store up there.

Start buying your most frequently used items online, 50lbs of 2-row and hops by the pound are a good start. I do this and run to my LHBS for yeast, specialty grains, and hops that I don't have in the freezer.

Support them in any way that you can, you can even ask if they will pricematch (mine will on some items) on particular things to keep your business local. I used to buy DME/Grain from North Country Malt, but my LHBS can match their prices + shipping, so I end up paying the same overall, but supporting my local store!

The LHBS here charges 1.50-2.50 a lb for grain, 2.50 for all their hops, and 7 for smack packs.

It's a touch more than online, but low enough that I will go to them for my needs rather than online. I tend to only buy online when they are out of stock locally, or buying hops in bulk.

LHBS...while few are fantastic 90% of the time you just need to drop the 1st 2 letters so you can better understand what you are dealing with.

My LHBS has GREAT, sometimes unbelievable deals on grains. They have a self serve, hand crank, adjustable grain mill and a fantastic choice of grains. I do not think I could order online w/ shipping and get a better deal. This is were the party ends.
You are spot on for what they charge for yeast and a bit low for what these guys want for hops. (I am pretty sure they think there is still a shortage.)
Then there is the bad, gawd awful, advice that most of the employees give out. In the defense of these guys, they probably have been doing things as they describe since they started and LOTS has changed. This is a hobby/job not a passion for them and they can drink what they brew so no real harm. They are also super friendly and will chat you up.

I go into my LHBS for grains and for yeast. I like that they store the yeast well and it does not get handled by the USPS/UPS/FEDEX people. (Most people have some horror story about these guys.) I would be pissed if my yeast did not work after 72 hours because it got baked in the truck while "in delivery".
I also use my LHBS as an emergency place to get something. Like,"Crap I thought I had more of X hops." or "My hydrometer rolled off the counter and broke." or "I ran out of bottle caps." things that just scream LHBS.

All this being said, I do like to go in and check things out and to make myself known to them. The last time I was in I got 2lbs of Crystal, for my caramel apple mead, for free. I also bring them in one of my home brews from time to time. I know I may pay a buck or 2 more for yeast but it keeps them open so when the day comes and I have an emergency they are there for me.

Thanks all. I had a feeling the prices I've been paying for ingredients were significantly higher than other brick 7 mortar stores, but I didn't have anything to compare it to. There is one other place in town that sells homebrewing supplies, but their stock is fairly limited, and it's also about 15-20 minutes further by car. In all but the worst weather, I can walk to the place I quoted the prices from, which is nice (unless I'm making a really big beer!).

I've slowly been moving towards buying hops, grain, and dry yeast online, and may just continue to do so. There are a few beers I just haven't brewed because of the prices - really, who can afford to brew an IIPA when hops are $72 per pound? I'll continue to support them as I'm able, but when they're charging me over double what I can get elsewhere, I have to draw the line.

Anyway, it looks like I may have to ask Santa for a grain mill this year. Any suggestions for mills and/or places to buy bulk grain (bags) online?

I am friends with a homebrew shop owner that is pretty open with how he runs his business. His simple pricing rule of thumb is that he doubles whatever he had to pay. If he pays $1.00 per pound, he charges $2....if he gets 55 lb bags of grain for $35, he charges $70. As a result of his pricing model, he loses business as people progress in the hobby. When folks make the jump to all-grain, they move on.

It drives me crazy...but it is what it is.

HickoryMike said:

His simple pricing rule of thumb is that he doubles whatever he had to pay.

Click to expand...

I'd hate to see that guy's prices on carboys and other equipment!

Have you asked about bulk discounts, at least for grain? My LHBS is awful expensive on hops ($3-4/oz), so I order those online. He WAY underprices on sacks of grain (seriously, he sold me a 55 lb sack of Maris Otter for $45 or $50). Maybe he can cut a deal on stuff in bulk. If not, as much as I believe in supporting the little guy, I think I'd shop online given those prices.

Definitely on the high side. I've paid about $1.25-$1.50 per pound on average at 3 separate stores over the last year.

What part of Ohio? Two stores in town about 15/20 minutes apart and they don't 'feel' the need to be more competitive?

$2/lb of grain (any kind; bulk around $1.10/lb), $1/oz of hops (any kind of 2009 crop), $9/vial of yeast, $4ish for dry yeast here.

HickoryMike said:

I am friends with a homebrew shop owner that is pretty open with how he runs his business. His simple pricing rule of thumb is that he doubles whatever he had to pay. If he pays $1.00 per pound, he charges $2....if he gets 55 lb bags of grain for $35, he charges $70. As a result of his pricing model, he loses business as people progress in the hobby. When folks make the jump to all-grain, they move on.

It drives me crazy...but it is what it is.

Click to expand...

He only knows half of that model for pricing. The 'double' should only be to a certain point and start dropping off as prices go up. I had a guy that ran a parts store explain his pricing structure to me once. Yeah, stuff he paid 50 cents for he doubled because he still had to handle it. Stuff he paid a hundred bucks for? More like 15% markup.

My "local" home brew shop isn't really local. I live in the stix and have a 30+ mile trip each way. About $6 in gas so shipping costs don't seem all that bad. The LHBS isn't in a convenient spot either. Add in that they cost more and if I don't have something on brew day I am SOL.

dont feel bad about NOT getting taken. If they want your money,they need to step up,and the price needs to come down. unless you got money to burn.

my LHBS is good so I give them my money. but if I see a deal on something I want or need from a nother vender,I dont feel bad about it.

I actuall started ordering online from my LHBS. shipping is the same as gas(40 min. drive) and I get my stuff the next morning.

next time you drop by, pick up something small and when they ask if you need anything else,just say nope, I got all my other stuff from X and it only cost me this much. and smile when you say it.

There is nothing wrong with pointing out who they are competing with for your money. Even if it's an online store. I don't think they can match an online store and stay in business, but perhaps you could get them to give you a bit better deal. If all it took for me to stay in business was to give a guy $0.50 per /lb off of some two row to keep his business for everything I would seriously consider it.

Hermit said:

What part of Ohio? Two stores in town about 15/20 minutes apart and they don't 'feel' the need to be more competitive?

Click to expand...

Columbus, believe it or not. In all honesty, I haven't asked about bulk grain purchases, mostly because I get everything ground there as I buy it. I suppose I could ask to buy a sack and take in what I need ground each time. I'm almost scared to see what they ask for a sack of grain, though. If it's not a steep discount over their normal prices, I'm afraid I might just start laughing, or crying, at hearing the price. Either way, it wouldn't be very polite.

GuldTuborg said:

Columbus, believe it or not. In all honesty, I haven't asked about bulk grain purchases, mostly because I get everything ground there as I buy it. I suppose I could ask to buy a sack and take in what I need ground each time. I'm almost scared to see what they ask for a sack of grain, though. If it's not a steep discount over their normal prices, I'm afraid I might just start laughing, or crying, at hearing the price. Either way, it wouldn't be very polite.

Click to expand...

I'd have to think there are active clubs in the area. I know I've seen posts here from that area. You aren't exactly on an island there. But, at those prices, a grain mill looks cheap.

I support local business if the prices are close and I always try to pay cash so they don't take the hit from Mastercard.

We don't have a LHBS but when I was into scuba we had the same argument all the time. The fact was our LDS had terrible prices and offered service with an attitude. I bought everything either online or at a Florida diveshop while on trips.

I only used them for fills and tank inspections.

Bottom line is that middle men are going out of business left and right. If they can't offer some added value (only added cost), then they will perish. You may consider this bad, but some niche hobbies I am in are actually being saved by this model. Not too many amateur telescope makers out there and there never was really a local shop for the hobby. The internet has allowed the hobby not only to survive, but thrive.

GuldTuborg said:

Columbus, believe it or not. In all honesty, I haven't asked about bulk grain purchases, mostly because I get everything ground there as I buy it. I suppose I could ask to buy a sack and take in what I need ground each time. I'm almost scared to see what they ask for a sack of grain, though. If it's not a steep discount over their normal prices, I'm afraid I might just start laughing, or crying, at hearing the price. Either way, it wouldn't be very polite.

Click to expand...

I haven't had a chance to check it out yet but there is a new LHBS in Reynoldsburg. They were at the microbrew fest at North Market last week. The name is Neil House Brewery & Homebrew Supply.

I'm guessing by the prices you quoted you live close to The Winemakers Shop in Clintonville. I personally will NEVER give that b%*th another dime of my money nor will I support her husbands brewpubs. She's definitely the rudest person I've run across in the 20 plus LHBS shops I've been to in the past few years. Combine that with her crappy pricing and you've lost a good customer!

I buy my yeast and misc items from Gentiles and Ed at Brewmasters Warehouse gets everything else. I try and support local business as well but since I have a 5 month old at home every dime counts! Gentiles has a good beer selection and have been very helpful and easy to work with. I got a bad vile of yeast from them and they swapped out no questions asked.

You need to figure out of the advice and such that you'll get from the local shop is worth it to pay more. I'll be honest, my local shop could charge a lot more and I'll still buy a lot from them. So if I spot something cheaper online, I ignore it 95% of the time. I only look online for weird specialty stuff that the shop wouldn't carry.

And even with that, I'm finding that my SMASH beers and such are MUCH better than anything that I had to order funky ingredients online for anyway. (dont even ASK about my hibiscus wheat session braggot)

My shop has a rewards program (buy 5 full recipes, 6th is free), does brew classes with free food and beer, and the guys that own/run the store are awesome to hang out with in general. All this and now they're charging $1/ounce special on pretty much all their hops.

I'm even buying specialty equipment from them (kegs, temp controllers, regulator, etc) that I 100% know I can get cheaper online.

EuBrew said:

I haven't had a chance to check it out yet but there is a new LHBS in Reynoldsburg. They were at the microbrew fest at North Market last week. The name is Neil House Brewery & Homebrew Supply.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip; I'll have to check that out. Reynoldsburg is a bit of a drive, but it may be worth it. I haven't been to Gentile's in a good year or two, at least. Maybe it's time to head back again.

For the OP's question, the prices here are almost half. I get all my ingredients at my LHBS except for hops because getting them by the pound online is way cheaper as long as you can store them. When I get liquid yeast I harvest it and use it for the next batches so I only need grains from the store while the hops and yeast are taken care of.