All Grain Questions

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Jennings

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Earlier today I did my 3rd all grain batch and I seem to be learning a ton each time. With that said, I need some advice from the all grain gurus out there. I missed my numbers big time today and I think it has to do with my crush, sparge method, and water volume issues.

First potential issue - the crush. When comparing my crush to the recommended crush pics that I found on this site, I feel like my crush looks really comparable. I think this is a good thing, but I seem to be extracting a ton of sugar from the grain. I'm using a corona mill. The beer that I was brewing today was a chocolate milk stout from northern brewer that was supposed to have a OG of 1.049. I mashed with ~3 gallons of water (9.75lbs of grain) and held at 152°F for 60 min and my first runnings came in at 1.090 - is that good/normal?

The second potential issue are my sparge methods. I'm still in the process of figuring this all grain thing out and attempted to fly sparge my first two batches, which didn't turn out so well. The beers are ok, but very astringent. I think I over sparged and released a ton of tannins, plus I wasn't monitoring ph at all. So, today I decided to give batch sparging a try because it seems to be a little easier (faster and don't need to monitor ph as closely/at all) and more forgiving (less likely to release tannins). My first impression is that batch sparging is the sh*t! The wort didn't have that grainy/astringent taste that my first two batches had. As mentioned above, my first runnings (i.e. - got back 2 out of 3 gallons, so I lost 1 gallon to grain absorption) came in at 1.090, second (i.e. - added 3 gallons) at 1.030, and the third (i.e. - added 1 gallon) at 1.020. I hit each of them with 180°F sparge water and held them for 10 minutes each. So, my preboil volume was 6 gallons.

Which brings me to the third thing that I'm possibly messing up - water volumes. Today I used brewheads.com, which was spot on from what I can tell. My preboil volume was 6 gallons and I had a SG of 1.082 (the OG of this brew is supposed to be 1.049). Long story short, I basically ended up doing a longer boil (~90 min) and topped everything off with an extra 1.5 gallons to reach about 5.5 gallons and an OG of 1.056 - so I missed the OG by 7 points and that's after cheating by adding an extra 1.5 gallons to dillute it, which isn't very good - right? Or should I be happy that my efficiency was pretty good?

Lastly, I think these all grain kits from northern brewer are supposed to be 5 gallon batches, right? If so, I missed that too, because I ended up with 5.5 gallons.

So, where am I going wrong here? Why were my numbers so off? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated - cheers! :mug:
 
Your water-grist ratio is OK. Fly sparging is fine, but you have to go very slowly. It should take about 45 minutes to an hour to collect your full boil amount when fly sparging. Also, don't let your sparge water get too hot.

Also, if your last runnings are still at 1.020, at those temperatures, you are leaving a lot of sugar behind. Keep in mind your hydrometer is calibrated to 60F, and you should add .002 - .003 for every 10 degrees above that.

All other things being equal, it sounds like you have tremendous efficiency.
 
my first runnings came in at 1.090 - is that good/normal?

Never heard of anyone measuring the gravity on the first runnings, what's the point as that would be the thickest portion of the wort?

Secondly, you can't take a recipe's OG and match it to preboil gravities and such as the OG is really the gravity read from the finished chilled wort in the fermenter prior to pitching the yeast. Even still, you shouldn't have had such high readings unless the wort wasn't mixed evenly because the preboil gravity should be lighter since there is extra liquid in there for boil off.

If when measuring before pitching your yeast you had 1.056 on a 1.049 recipe when you also wound up with an extra half gallon in the fermenter then something is just not right.

Have you tested your hydrometer to make sure the paper hasn't slipped?


Rev.
 
Cool, glad to hear the water/grist ratio is fine. I think my hydrometer's ok and I was bringing my samples down to 60°F for all of my readings. So, that I guess that means that it's my crush and/or sparge. I really liked batch sparging and feel that I had better results (i.e. - no astringency/tannins) today because of it, so I think I'll stick with this method for a while.

I'm really starting to think that it's my crush. When I had northern brewer mill the grains for me on my first AG batch, I hit all of my numbers. Now that I'm milling the grains myself with the corona mill, all of my numbers are crazy high. So, how will I ever hit the OG's provided with recipes? Do I need to use less grain than suggested in recipes and kits?
 
Now that I'm milling the grains myself with the corona mill, all of my numbers are crazy high. So, how will I ever hit the OG's provided with recipes? Do I need to use less grain than suggested in recipes and kits?

Please post the recipe that you did. Milling your own grains can definitely increase your efficiency, but not likely as high as you are reporting. For a 5 gallon 1.049 beer to come in 1.056 at 5.5 gallons Beersmith is telling me that would be 92% efficiency, which is quite high and a bit hard to believe. I'm still thinking something else is off. Anyhow, please post your recipe and I'll run the numbers.


Rev.
 
This isn't the best picture, but maybe it will help. Thanks!

grain.jpg
 
Perhaps your numbers are off a bit? 8 lbs Rahr Pale Ale Malt., 0.75 lbs Fawcett Pale, Chocolate Malt, 0.25 lbs English Extra Dark Crystal, and 0.75 lbs Weyermann Dehusked Carafa III gives me @ 1.060 total gravity points. If you had a preboil volume of 6 gallons at an SG of 1.082 that would translate to @ 136% mash efficiency.
 
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