240V 5500W 30A 50L ebiab keggle conversion w/recirculation [pics]

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shuckit

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2011
Messages
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Location
Victoria
It took about a year to piece together all the various parts, build the controls, and modify my existing system. It now consists of a 13.2 US Gallon (50 liter) 240V e-biab keggle, PID temperature control, pump, and homemade CFC.

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The biggest beer I’ve made to date had a grist of 25lbs (11.3kg) with 8.5 gallons (31.2L) of strike water. Almost zero headroom in the pot during the mash.

Special thanks to HBT member PJ for the wiring diagram and to Kal for his awesome resource - www.theelectricberwery.com. I couldn’t have built this without their knowledge sharing. I tried to buy things through Kal’s affiliate links on his website so he got a little in return for his online instruction manual. In the spirit of HBT I thought I’d share my project.

PROS:
• Ability to brew in my basement instead of outside or in my garage.
• PID temperature control, I can set the strike temp and turn my back on it while I prep grain and it holds mash temps without external input.
• No more dealing with propane tanks.
• Fast heating w/5500w element on 6 gallon batches.
• Pump allows for a recirculating mash that keeps the temperature in a narrow band. Also lets me whirlpool while chilling.
• Quieter, the loudest thing is my exhaust fan.

CONS:
• Initial cost
• Lost the ability for a pulley system to hoist the grain bag. Now it’s manual and when I pull out the bag I get some spillage when the bag pushes against the edge of the keggle. Pretty minor irritant.

Wiring Diagram from PJ
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I did one modification that isn’t reflected in the drawing. I added an indicator light that turns on when there’s energy in the box. The light is just wired from one of the hot lines with a return to neutral on the terminal block.

Bill of Materials
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Buying the stuff over 12 months made it feel less expensive but it sure adds up. For those considering converting to electric keep an eye on your budget because things blow up fast. Until I totaled it all up I would have said it cost me about a thousand dollars for this build but obviously it cost a lot more. The CAD / USD have been around par for a while so that total is a good approximation in either currency.

Shipping direct to Canada is expensive and I got things shipped on quick notice when work would bring me to the lower 48.

The range hood was more expensive then the inline vortex fans but I don’t plan on living in the house forever and the brewery space is actually designed for a stove/range. I’ll leave behind the range hood and I’ve got above stove cabinets ready to go. The previous owner pre-installed 240V so it was the logical place to locate my brewery. In addition to installing the range hood, I downgraded the circuit from 40 to 30 amps.

A little background on my system

After getting kicked off the kitchen stove and banished to the garage I bought a turkey fryer setup.
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Then I sourced a used keg off craigslist and put it on the propane burner in the garage.
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Build Process

Early on I decided to fortify the control box and I really liked the look of Kal’s system. My knowledge of electrical systems was dangerously novice. I could replace an electrical outlet and change a light fixture, but I knew nothing of the underlying principals and really had no understanding of what I was doing. For better or worse I decided to learn more on a DIY project that mixes 240v and lots of hot water. I put the controls in a NIMA 4 rated box and spent extra money on receptacles and cords. If anything it gives piece of mind.

The control box is 16’’ x 12’’ x 6’’ and it’s the right size for the components inside. Notice the weak illumination on two of the push buttons.
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I went with components from Auber Instruments, including the push button switches. They work fine but are dimly illuminated when on. The blue one is fine but the other two are weak. If I did it again I’d use the stand alone LED lights like the one on the top left hand corner of the control box. I put that one in to remind me the box is energized.

I followed Kal’s design for the control box and modified the setup to control a single electric element and pump.

I got my hands on a set of hole saws, a step bit, and hole punch for all the holes that needed cutting.

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The heat sink ends up on this side.
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Moved the ground on the door.
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Extra grounding lug on kettle, just below the element housing.
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Solder used for ground lug / stainless steel bond. Worked great the first time.
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Tapping the screw holes for the receptacles.
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Re-soldering the temp probe wire to the XLR jack. First time one wire came lose and I got the orAL 343 error code on the PID.
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Start of the control box wiring.
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Finished Control Box wiring.
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Finished keggle with element, side pickup, and whirlpool fitting.
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Scavenged a chromed rack that fits in the keggle and sits about an inch above the element. I use the rack during the mash to keep the bag off the element. Before I found the rack the bag would sit on the element and when I’d try to heat the mash the whole bag would burp and jump and clog the dip tube. Using the rack solved all those problems and I can recirculate and heat without issue.
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During a mash. You can see the element housing on the left and the two ball values. Temp probe goes into the bottom of the site glass. Recirculated wort trickles in from the top and out through the side pickup.
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Cannibalized my immersion chiller and turned it into two 25ft counter flow chillers.
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My setup is user friendly and easy to brew on. I’ve had no second thoughts about the switch from propane to electric.
 
Looks good and it looks like you've been allowed back in the kitchen! That should make brewing in the Canadian winters a little more pleasant I assume. Thanks for all the breakdown on parts, wiring diagrams. I'm debating an eBIAB or a multi-vessel system.

Cheers!
 
Nice build - congratulations!

Thanks.

Looks good and it looks like you've been allowed back in the kitchen! That should make brewing in the Canadian winters a little more pleasant I assume. Thanks for all the breakdown on parts, wiring diagrams. I'm debating an eBIAB or a multi-vessel system.

I'm allowed in the basement for now and yeah, I can brew in my shorts in the winter.
 
Oh dude. I'm so glad you posted this. I've been dreaming of a very similar setup for a year now. I figured if I could get it built for $1500 I'd be ok so your parts list puts me right in the ball park.

Looks like I have no excuse but to start. . .

Awesome project man!
 
I fixed the dim lights on the control box. The lighted button is specific to the correct terminal. When you take apart the button switches, don't mix and match the front and back sections or the lights won't shine bright.
 
Really nice looking build. I'd like to ask few questions, as I'm new to BIAB and am trying to decide between an electric BIAB kettle vs. a gas (propane or natural gas) setup. First, how quick does a typical batch (e.g. 7.5 gallons) of water come up to strike temp, and then from strike/mashout to boil? I like BIAB for the potential shortening of a brew day vs. traditional RIMS. Second, how did you enclose the electrical side of the heater element? Third, is the pump simply there to feed the CFC chiller, or are you using it to recirculate during heating of the strike water, and/or during the mash?

As you can see, I'm waffling between going electric and doing a gas setup for speed. Down here in Southern California, we can pretty much brew outdoors all year round, so gas fumes are not an issue. However, I like the idea of setting a temp and having the PID controller do the work of managing temperature control. I'm just concerned about a) the complexity of the build and b) the speed at which heating takes place. I know that electrical elements are far more efficient than any gas burners, but I can still get much more gas to a heater than current (I'm limited to a 30A/220V circuit).

BTW, I was just up in Victoria in early August. It's just beautiful up there. Does it really get that cold?
 
Really nice looking build. I'd like to ask few questions, as I'm new to BIAB and am trying to decide between an electric BIAB kettle vs. a gas (propane or natural gas) setup. First, how quick does a typical batch (e.g. 7.5 gallons) of water come up to strike temp, and then from strike/mashout to boil? I like BIAB for the potential shortening of a brew day vs. traditional RIMS. Second, how did you enclose the electrical side of the heater element? Third, is the pump simply there to feed the CFC chiller, or are you using it to recirculate during heating of the strike water, and/or during the mash?

As you can see, I'm waffling between going electric and doing a gas setup for speed. Down here in Southern California, we can pretty much brew outdoors all year round, so gas fumes are not an issue. However, I like the idea of setting a temp and having the PID controller do the work of managing temperature control. I'm just concerned about a) the complexity of the build and b) the speed at which heating takes place. I know that electrical elements are far more efficient than any gas burners, but I can still get much more gas to a heater than current (I'm limited to a 30A/220V circuit).

BTW, I was just up in Victoria in early August. It's just beautiful up there. Does it really get that cold?

If you have 30a/220v, you can make an e-biab system with a 5500w element, which will get you to temperature fairly quickly. E.g., with 8 gallons it would take about 25 minutes to get to a 152F mash temperature, and about another 15 minutes to get that to boil temperature. There is a spreadsheet around called electricheat.xls that can do the calculations.
 
• Quieter, the loudest thing is my exhaust fan.
That's probably the part that gas brewers who switch to electric find the most surprising. It's quiet!

When I brewed temporarily in the garage last year (no fan), during the boil both pumps would be off and you would literally hear nothing other than a little blub blub of bubbles in the boil kettle from time to time. Eerie actually.

Nicely documented - congrats on the new setup!

Kal

Kal
 
First, how quick does a typical batch (e.g. 7.5 gallons) of water come up to strike temp, and then from strike/mashout to boil? I like BIAB for the potential shortening of a brew day vs. traditional RIMS. Second, how did you enclose the electrical side of the heater element? Third, is the pump simply there to feed the CFC chiller, or are you using it to recirculate during heating of the strike water, and/or during the mash?

BTW, I was just up in Victoria in early August. It's just beautiful up there. Does it really get that cold?

1. Heats quick, 20-25 minutes to strike, then 15 minutes to boil. Like jeffmeh said. I've got mine on a 30amp circuit. 2. For the electrical element enclosure, I followed Kal's advice on his website, electricbrewery. 3. I use the pump to recirc during the mash and I whirlpool while I chill. I have the electric element on to keep mash temps and not get temp stratification. 4. It gets rainy and windy in the winter up here. It's a damp cold. Much prefer brewing in shorts and sandals in my basement.

Nicely documented - congrats on the new setup

Thanks for the help!
 
Thanks Shuckit and Kal. It certainly looks like electric is an option, especially given a nearby 240V/30A outlet. I'm thinking about building a "convertible" kettle that would allow me to do automated electric brews, similar to the system built here, for when I'm home. When brewing with buddies, it would be nice to be able to brew on propane, so I'm thinking about rigging up a tri-clover port to accept one of BobbyNJ's triclover heater element housing rigs, and then plug the hole with a triclover plate for brewing on gas. Of course, I could just spring for another kettle!

BTW, how do you regulate the boil? Is there a way to use PWM once the boil is in progress to control the boil-off rate? It doesn't seem like a good idea to have the system running full power after a boil is achieved. I can see how the PID can control the appropriate temps for mash and mashout, etc, but once boil is reached, temperature control doesn't seem a reliable method. Does the rig described here have some way to activate a PWM during boiling? A second thing that concerns me is the potential for running the element dry. Does anyone sell an element that shuts down if the element runs dry (and starts to overheat)? If not, would it be possible to measure amperage draw to prevent overheating?
 
BTW, how do you regulate the boil? Is there a way to use PWM once the boil is in progress to control the boil-off rate? It doesn't seem like a good idea to have the system running full power after a boil is achieved. I can see how the PID can control the appropriate temps for mash and mashout, etc, but once boil is reached, temperature control doesn't seem a reliable method. Does the rig described here have some way to activate a PWM during boiling?
Both PWM and PIDs run in manual mode allow for duty cycle to be set to control the amount of boil.

A second thing that concerns me is the potential for running the element dry. Does anyone sell an element that shuts down if the element runs dry (and starts to overheat)? If not, would it be possible to measure amperage draw to prevent overheating?
Not possible.The element draws as much current whether it's in water or air. The ripple elements used a lot by brewers are a bit immune to frying, or at least they don't fry as soon after firing one up in air like non-ripple elements.

Kal
 
Kal:

I guess this is not as big a deal as for a RIMS tube, where running low on wort could cause things to go boom.:eek:

It would still be nice to come up with a fail-safe for electric kettles. I imagine that I would mostly use this outside, but on a rainy day, I have a 240/30 receptacle in the garage. I would love a little extra insurance against stupidity. It's unlikely that would ever happen, but as I plan to automate this with a Raspberry Pi, it doesn't seem like too much trouble to add a an extra thermocouple to check element temp, or just measure amp draw through the circuit. As I understand it, those elements are made of a stainless alloy. This should have a reasonably large increase in resistance as temperature increases. So in theory, a significant drop in current would indicate a lack of boiling wort. Again, not a huge deal in my own brewing, but this could significantly improve safety, especially in RIMS tube configurations. Am I totally off-base on this?

Again, thanks for all of the excellent documentation of your build(s).
 
I don't think what you suggest is plausible or easily achievable. Sorry!

I think it's simpler to have a brew process in place that negates having to worry about all this to begin with. Design the setup and process properly and you won't have to worry about it. That's what I do.

I have an interlock on my control panel that doesn't allow it to be turned on if any of the elements are in the on position. That's by far the biggest safety feature that avoids having an element fire by mistake. Then I heat the strike/sparge water only after I've filled the HLT all the way, I don't sparge while the HLT element is on (so the level can't drop below), and I only fire the boil kettle element once the kettle is full.

I've gotten rid of all the "oops I forgot..." situations in my brewing process such that worrying about dry firing elements is a non-issue.

YMMV.

Kal
 
I don't think what you suggest is plausible or easily achievable. Sorry!

I think it's simpler to have a brew process in place that negates having to worry about all this to begin with. Design the setup and process properly and you won't have to worry about it. That's what I do.

I have an interlock on my control panel that doesn't allow it to be turned on if any of the elements are in the on position. That's by far the biggest safety feature that avoids having an element fire by mistake. Then I heat the strike/sparge water only after I've filled the HLT all the way, I don't sparge while the HLT element is on (so the level can't drop below), and I only fire the boil kettle element once the kettle is full.

I've gotten rid of all the "oops I forgot..." situations in my brewing process such that worrying about dry firing elements is a non-issue.

YMMV.

Kal

Coming up with ideas that are neither "plausible or easily achievable" is my specialty. :eek:

Perhaps the interlock system and some common sense during brew sessions are more practical solutions.
 
You could put an IR sensor or float valve in which would shut off the relay if the min wart level was off, but I don't think it's worth the trouble.
 
You could put an IR sensor or float valve in which would shut off the relay if the min wort level was off, but I don't think it's worth the trouble.

Oh, I think it's worth the trouble. I get distracted when brewing a lot, and swapping out heating elements is a real pain.
 
this might do what you need:

Product Description:
This switch will open or close the electric circuit when liquid level reaches a specific position. It can be used to activate a pump when liquid level is low, or to open the heating circuit to prevent the damage of the heater. For activating the pump when liquid level is low, the sensor tip should be mounted downwards as shown in the picture below. For cutting off the heating circuit when liquid level is low, the sensor tip should be mounted upwards. Since the switch is rated for 0.8 Amp, a typical wiring is to put it in series with relay (or solid state relay) control loop.

Specification
Float Switch(stainless steel Float Switch,Liquid Switch)
Rated voltage: 220VAC/24VDC
Rated curent: 0.8A
Insulation Impedance: >10MΩ
Applied pressure :20/50 Pa
Working temperature: -10 ºC~130 ºC (14 ºF~266 ºF)
Cable length: 17 inch

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_32&products_id=324
 
this might do what you need:

Product Description:
This switch will open or close the electric circuit when liquid level reaches a specific position. It can be used to activate a pump when liquid level is low, or to open the heating circuit to prevent the damage of the heater. For activating the pump when liquid level is low, the sensor tip should be mounted downwards as shown in the picture below. For cutting off the heating circuit when liquid level is low, the sensor tip should be mounted upwards. Since the switch is rated for 0.8 Amp, a typical wiring is to put it in series with relay (or solid state relay) control loop.

Specification
Float Switch(stainless steel Float Switch,Liquid Switch)
Rated voltage: 220VAC/24VDC
Rated curent: 0.8A
Insulation Impedance: >10MΩ
Applied pressure :20/50 Pa
Working temperature: -10 ºC~130 ºC (14 ºF~266 ºF)
Cable length: 17 inch

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_32&products_id=324

I have installed one of those in both my HLT and my BK. It's already saved my HLT heating element once when I got distracted and forgot to turn off the heating element switch while the water drained. See? I told you that I was easily distracted! For only 11 bucks, it's a very cheap insurance policy.

The float can be turned upside down if you'd prefer to have the switch facing downwards instead of up, btw. It's a very nice SS float switch. Highly recommend them from Auber Instruments.

I made a quick disconnect for them using a standard mono audio jack, so I don't have a long cord dangling when I move the pots for cleaning purposes.
 
this might do what you need:


This looks interesting. It would work great in an HLT or boil kettle. For an MLT, it would need to fit under the false bottom, at least the float itself would have to be able to move unimpeded by the grains. It's interesting in that it can be normally open or normally closed. It is likely based on some type of reed or Hall effect switch, with the magnet in the float. By inverting the float, one can change between NC and NO. It has a relatively low current rating, so it would still be necessary to run control wires back to the panel to prevent an SSR or contactor from firing the kettle. Overall, the design is ideal for this purpose, as it is rated up to 266F.
 
Subbed... This is almost exactly what I plan to build. I'll be using a US Solar pump instead with a PWM control. It looks great though. Congrats!
 
Why PWM on the pump? Won't the constant start/stop be hard on the pump as opposed just throttling the output with a valve?

Did I miss a thread somewhere discussing this?
 
Why PWM on the pump? Won't the constant start/stop be hard on the pump as opposed just throttling the output with a valve?

Did I miss a thread somewhere discussing this?

Sorry I meant potentiometer control. US Solar pumps are 12-24 vdc, so perfectly suited for control with a pot. Dc motors have the advantage of maintaining torque throughout their entire voltage range and these US solars can start with as little 8vdc and then be powered down to add little as 2vdc. Cheaper and more accurate than throttling with a ball valve, but again they are not as blingy as a chugger or March pump.
 
Sorry I meant potentiometer control. US Solar pumps are 12-24 vdc, so perfectly suited for control with a pot. Dc motors have the advantage of maintaining torque throughout their entire voltage range and these US solars can start with as little 8vdc and then be powered down to add little as 2vdc. Cheaper and more accurate than throttling with a ball valve, but again they are not as blingy as a chugger or March pump.

I was under the impression the low voltage tended to cook these pumps based on a few threads where guys had to small of power supply. Or is that related to current? I would way rather have a pot than a valve.

Sorry for the thread jack OP
 
I was under the impression the low voltage tended to cook these pumps based on a few threads where guys had to small of power supply. Or is that related to current? I would way rather have a pot than a valve.

Sorry for the thread jack OP

I should be ok. I'm not using a wall wart like a lot of people. I have a snazzy din rail mounted power supply that should easily handle the power requirements. It'll supply 60W at 24vdc. Also wall warts tend to give off pretty dirty power with lots of spikes and bounce. My power supply isn't cheap, but it is rock solid stable and I use similar 240W ones at work to supply power for our super sensitive emissions analyzers. That data gets sent to the EPA, so it needs to be reliable and accurate.
 
I have a few questions about this build

How important is the use of pumps, does being able to recirculate and whirlpool really make a big difference?

Will this still work well if the pump is omitted? How much easier/better does the pump make things?

Thanks
 
I have a few questions about this build

How important is the use of pumps, does being able to recirculate and whirlpool really make a big difference?

Will this still work well if the pump is omitted? How much easier/better does the pump make things?

Thanks

Recirc helps keep mash temps more consistent from top to bottom. Also helped on the few step mashes I have done.

I leave a lot of trub behind when I whirlpool. Cuts out a step when washing yeast for me. Hop stands are easy too.

Lots of people biab w/o a pump. The pump just gives you more flexibility.
 
How do you go about wiring the potentiometer to control the solar pump. I have a similar pump made by great breweh but it plugs into 120v recepticle. Do I wire it before recepticle in control box or after on the dc side? Thanks for the help.
 
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