High Rye - sweet final beer?

Hey guys - I'm doing a number of experimental brews. I've got a number of beers in my stable that are rock solid and very tasty. I'm expanding my ingredient knowledge by doing simplified and or experimental brews. For example I did a pair of hop test pale ales - really simple grain bills - just pale and victory. One hop for each batch - added at 60, 30, 20, 15, 10, 5 and 0. Drinking them side by side give you a really great feel for the flavor of the hops involved.

The batch that I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around is my dark rye beer.

4.0 oz Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) 4.3 %
5 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) 47.8 %
4 lbs 8.0 oz Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) 39.1 %
8.0 oz De-Bittered Chocolate Malt (375.0 SRM) 4.3 %
8.0 oz Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) 4.3 %
1.00 oz Chinook [12.70 %] - Boil 60.0 min 43.4 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [3.90 %] - Boil 20.0 min 8.1 IBUs
0.25 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 8 -
1.00 oz Cascade [3.90 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 4.8 IBUs
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05)

mashed at 154 for 60. SG dead on at 1051, fermented down to 1014 over a couple of weeks - which is two points high from calculated - but stable and within range. I landed at my normal 72% brewhouse and 82% mash efficiency. I guess what I'm saying is that everything was normal.

Aerated then fermented at 65 for 4 days - then dropped to 62 for the remainder.

What was odd was how sweet the final beer tasted going into the keg. I know some of that will mellow when it's carbed - but it tasted like an incomplete fermentation while the math says that it's done. Very odd.

Now, this recipe was intended to push the Rye well past normal levels - as a way to make sure it was clear and I could easily ID the flavor. I learned long ago that one of the easiest ways to learn about something is to take it to an extreme.

So, for those with experience with high rye usage - is this sweetness related?

That's interesting. I was in a brewpub last week that had their rye on tap and I noted a definite residual sweetness. The brewer wasn't in so I plan on asking about the grain bill through email this week. I really liked it though.

Rye malt does not contribute much as far as ppg (25-29). I've never tasted raw rye so I don't have a feeling for its sweetness.

I find this interesting as well. When I sampled my recent rye, when going to secondary to dry hop, I felt it tasted sweet. I made up the recipe, and was about 30% rye. The fermentation is def complete.

Mike

Horseshoot said:

I find this interesting as well. When I sampled my recent rye, when going to secondary to dry hop, I felt it tasted sweet. I made up the recipe, and was about 30% rye. The fermentation is def complete.

Mike

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The sweetness is odd as well - sort of like the way stevia tastes sweet. Not quite like residual sugar, almost like nutra-sweet or aspartine.

I think the beer is going to be really quite good. Prob too sweet to drink a lot, but the flavor was excellent.

Mine was finally legged (and already kicked!) The final flavor was grainy, sharp rye notes. Mild bitterness. A mild floral hop flavor. Still seemed fairly sweet. Tho somehow this was offset by the fairly high carbonation I gave it. Overall it was very light and refreshing. I will make it again, but I am going to increase the rye a bit and the hopping rate a bit. It was enjoyed by all who had it.

Horseshoot said:

Mine was finally legged (and already kicked!) The final flavor was grainy, sharp rye notes. Mild bitterness. A mild floral hop flavor. Still seemed fairly sweet. Tho somehow this was offset by the fairly high carbonation I gave it. Overall it was very light and refreshing. I will make it again, but I am going to increase the rye a bit and the hopping rate a bit. It was enjoyed by all who had it.

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I had the same issue with a rye I made. Entered in a comp....judges say too sweet..hydrometer says dry. I think a certain combination of hops against rye tricks the palette into thinking sweet. My score was a 34 but the sweetness factor kills me. Both judges recognized it....so something is there. I get a similar flavor from lagunitas beers.

I'm going to guess that it's something to do with the dextrine profile left after fermentation, i.e. what is giving the beer that 1.014 gravity. It's entirely possible that some of those dextrines taste sweet... in that starch-sugar grey area. I would guess that it's not a perceived sweetness, but a real one.

StMarcos said:

I'm going to guess that it's something to do with the dextrine profile left after fermentation, i.e. what is giving the beer that 1.014 gravity. It's entirely possible that some of those dextrines taste sweet... in that starch-sugar grey area. I would guess that it's not a perceived sweetness, but a real one.

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as mine comes to carbonation I'm getting the same notes. It's an odd beer. Quite light in body and mouth feel - very light in fact. Landed at 1013 but has a significant residual sweetness. It's one of those beers that you taste in layers. Initially it's a hop forward bite - with the maltiness following then with a finish that's slightly sweet and lingering.

Odd beer - but a great way to learn rye.

I have a Rye IIPA that went from from 1.074 to 1.015. It is very good, but it is definitely sweeter than I was shooting for despite adding a pound of sugar to dry it out. I hopped with Hallertau, Columbus, and Cascade. It starts off sweet, then has a firm lingering bitterness. I enjoy the spicy/earthy rye taste it has though. Glad to know I am not the only one experiencing this. Anyone have suggestions on limiting the sweetness? My mash temp was 154 and I was thinking of re-brewing with a mash temp of 150, reducing crystal malts, and increasing the sugar to 1.5lbs. Any other ideas?

BrewinHooligan said:

Anyone have suggestions on limiting the sweetness?

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Use less Rye?

That was the whole point of my test batch. Now I know what 40% Rye tastes like.