Any 120V Setups for 10 Gal Batch?

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JJWP

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So I've been lurking around various electric build posts for quite a while now, and I'm basically resigned to the fact that I would need 240V to go this route - which I do not have access to as I live in an old apartment building.

But, before I totally give up on this electric thing, I've got to at least ask:

Is there any reasonable way to boil 11-12 gallons on 120V?

- I'm not opposed to using multiple elements.
- I'm not opposed to waiting up to 60 minutes to get to boil from mash temps. I could spend that time cleaning equipment, etc
- I can wrap my keggle in reflectix insulation if that makes a difference
- I've got two dedicated 20amp circuits in the kitchen

The highest wattage 120V element I've been able to find online is this:
http://www.comfortgurus.com/product_info.php/products_id/7096

Would one of these do the job (barely)? Is the super high density nature of this element a no no?

I don't know anything about electrical and I'm not interested in monkeying around with anything complex. I basically just want to electrically heat my BK so I can brew in the kitchen year round.

I would never dream of doing the complex electrical work some of you guys do, but it seems to me that the heating element piece is generally straightforward and safe if one follows a few key principles? (ie proper grounding, redundant GFCI protection, correct element installation, appropriate wire gauge, etc)

Thanks
 
3000watts / 120v = 25 amps. No good. You can go with 2000 watt elements if you're sure that you can suspend any other usage on the 20a circuits. If your fridge is on one of them, you'll trip the breaker if you have the 2000 watt element running and the compressor kicks on.

I suspect even a single 2000w element used along with a stove burner would get a 10g boil going if you can fit the pot on there.
 
yeah I can definitely dedicate the two 20a circuits. The fridge is on one, but I don't mind unplugging it for a few hours if I need to (just wont open it).

do you think that 4000 total watts (2x2000w elements) would be enough to get a good boil for 12gal?
 
I just went out and looked at the breaker box - there is a 50a breaker in there as well. I have no idea what it is for... the service main is a 100a switch btw.
 
The 50 amp is most likely your electric stove if you have one.

No, I've got a gas stove. I pulled it out and there is no electrical hookup behind it at all.. maybe it is not actually hooked up to an outlet?

Here is another question: if I understand it correctly, it is ok to run a 240v element on 120, but you will only get 25% of the rated wattage?

So, if I want to "future-proof" my 120v boiler, should I look for a single 8000w 240v element? That way, it would run at 2kw on 120v and at 8kw on 240 if I ever get access to a 240v circuit?

Good idea, bad idea?
 
No, I've got a gas stove. I pulled it out and there is no electrical hookup behind it at all.. maybe it is not actually hooked up to an outlet?

Here is another question: if I understand it correctly, it is ok to run a 240v element on 120, but you will only get 25% of the rated wattage?

So, if I want to "future-proof" my 120v boiler, should I look for a single 8000w 240v element? That way, it would run at 2kw on 120v and at 8kw on 240 if I ever get access to a 240v circuit?

Good idea, bad idea?

It is perfectly OK to run that 240V element on 120.
 
For ten gallons you will need at least 3000w, or better yet 4000w. 2 elements at 120v 2000w works well if limited to 120v...if you can do 240, no problem w/ a 4500w or even a 5500w.
 
I have a 16 gallon pot with two 2000w elements installed and have absolutely no problem boiling 12 gallons, my pot is insulated which I believe really helps, and i can even maintain the boil with only one element.
 
I have a 16 gallon pot with two 2000w elements installed and have absolutely no problem boiling 12 gallons, my pot is insulated which I believe really helps, and i can even maintain the boil with only one element.

Addis how long does it take to get from mash out temps to boil temp?

Do you kick on the heating elements while you are sparging, or wait until you have collected your total pre-boil volume?

How do your boil times compare to the calculations in the spreadheet posted earlier in this thread? according to that spreadsheet, I could get 13 gallons from 170F to boil in 50 minutes with 1 2000w element running at an actual wattage of 1681.

If I take 30 min or so to do my runoff and have the heater on the whole time, that doesn't sound so bad?
 
I have never actually timed it, but yeah I turn the elements on as soon as I collect my first runnings. Do my sparge and then pump remaining over. Like I said never timed it but it doesn't seem very long to get to boil. So if the spreadsheet is accurate 50 minutes with one element, you will be using two so cut the time in half. My boil kettle is insulated which I really thinks helps.
 
I don't mean to question you, but are you sure you don't have 240V? Most 100A services that i have seen are 120/240 V.
 
I am currently running a 2x2000w setup and works great to boil 12 gallons. Building my control panel now. Should have it working by next week. I'll post some pictures then.
 
This is what I do in my apartment for 10 gallon boils. I'd love to use my stoves 220 outlet but it is a 3 prong and there is no GFCI on the breaker panel. Luckily I have 2 20 amp circuits right next to each other in the kitchen which allows me to use in the boil. I have a keggle fitted with 2 2000W HD elements. I bring it to a boil and disconnect one of them as all I need is one to maintain the boil.

Here is a brief shot of my setup:
39557_498686993272_602223272_6957126_1777218_n.jpg

One outlet behind the MLT and the other behind the HLT.

Shot of the kettle:
40160_498691733272_602223272_6957282_8355450_n.jpg

You can see the two elements next to each other under the hop sack.
 
I use two 2000 watt heatsticks for heating my Mash/Sparge water and for the boil. Each stick used a separate 20 amp 120v circuit.

Yesterday, I boiled 14 gallons with the sticks, no problem.

IMAG0082.JPG

IMAG0081.JPG

IMAG0080.JPG


:rockin:
 
I don't mean to question you, but are you sure you don't have 240V? Most 100A services that i have seen are 120/240 V.

If I do, there isn't an outlet anywhere... I've pulled out the stove and fridge and looked everywhere else - no dice.
 
and thanks for the replies (and pics) everyone... I was about to give up on going electric, so this is encouraging. looks like I have some more planning to do.
 
This brings back something I've thought about repeatedly. Electricity has never been a problem for me. We've got 200A to the house and 100A to the garage. I've got enough space on either bus to support a 50/60A 240V circuit. I have the materials on hand (maybe not enough 10-3....) to rig an outlet today.

With me It's mainly a matter of seeing or being able to think up a cost-effective electric system that conforms to K.I.S.S. principles. If I'm going to do the boil electrically, I also want to heat all the water that way.....but most people just go with a separate HLT, and that has always seemed to me like a redundancy that could be avoided.

Ideally, I'd like to have one 240V electric SS pot that would heat all the water, and then do the boil later in the same pot. The mash would be done as it is now, in my cooler conversion MLT.

This seems possible...but if I do this, I have decided it will only be done in conjunction with a move to 10 gal. capacity. And that, of course is the reason so many people do 5 gallons......it's the most the average person can lift and pour safely. To go to 10 gallons, the complexity of the system jumps by an order of magnitude. I've only seen two approaches: first is the simpler gravity "cascade" system, where an HLT on the top tier feeds an MLT on a middle shelf, which then lauters to a boil pot on the lowest level. Although this system is simpler, there is still the need to transport water to the top tier, and then have some way to move chilled wort from the boil pot to a fermenter. Then there is the pumped "horizontal" system, with its complexity of lines, fittings, and pumps, to which one must either minister like a trained monkey, or go with the next level of a computer controlled rig.

I'm still looking....
 
Ideally, I'd like to have one 240V electric SS pot that would heat all the water, and then do the boil later in the same pot. The mash would be done as it is now, in my cooler conversion MLT.

I thought about this too, because i agree with the redundancy. here's a thought I had:
suppose you heat strike water in BK, transfer to MLT, and mash in.
during mash, heat sparge water to desired temp.
when you're ready to start your lauter/sparge, transfer all your sparge water from the BK to an additional cooler, and use that as a cheap HLT, but without any heat source. its still a 3 vessel system, but the money needed for this HLT is like $30 (and I like the 2 tier approach too. keeps it pretty simple)
 
This brings back something I've thought about repeatedly. Electricity has never been a problem for me. We've got 200A to the house and 100A to the garage. I've got enough space on either bus to support a 50/60A 240V circuit. I have the materials on hand (maybe not enough 10-3....) to rig an outlet today.

With me It's mainly a matter of seeing or being able to think up a cost-effective electric system that conforms to K.I.S.S. principles. If I'm going to do the boil electrically, I also want to heat all the water that way.....but most people just go with a separate HLT, and that has always seemed to me like a redundancy that could be avoided.

Ideally, I'd like to have one 240V electric SS pot that would heat all the water, and then do the boil later in the same pot. The mash would be done as it is now, in my cooler conversion MLT.

This seems possible...but if I do this, I have decided it will only be done in conjunction with a move to 10 gal. capacity. And that, of course is the reason so many people do 5 gallons......it's the most the average person can lift and pour safely. To go to 10 gallons, the complexity of the system jumps by an order of magnitude. I've only seen two approaches: first is the simpler gravity "cascade" system, where an HLT on the top tier feeds an MLT on a middle shelf, which then lauters to a boil pot on the lowest level. Although this system is simpler, there is still the need to transport water to the top tier, and then have some way to move chilled wort from the boil pot to a fermenter. Then there is the pumped "horizontal" system, with its complexity of lines, fittings, and pumps, to which one must either minister like a trained monkey, or go with the next level of a computer controlled rig.

I'm still looking....

I use one pump and two heat sticks on a two tier system. It's by far the easiest brew system I've ever had. Mine is a Brutus 20 so I do a continuous batch sparge. If you set up everything with quick connects you're just changing a connection now and then. It's very easy and... elegant. March pump is really flawless once you get the hang of it.

I also have a quick connect that goes to my plumbing stack as a waste port. Best idea I've had.

Here's a pic of my system

Once you have the system ready 10 gallons is really no different from 5. I'll never go back.
 
This brings back something I've thought about repeatedly. Electricity has never been a problem for me. We've got 200A to the house and 100A to the garage. I've got enough space on either bus to support a 50/60A 240V circuit. I have the materials on hand (maybe not enough 10-3....) to rig an outlet today.

With me It's mainly a matter of seeing or being able to think up a cost-effective electric system that conforms to K.I.S.S. principles. If I'm going to do the boil electrically, I also want to heat all the water that way.....but most people just go with a separate HLT, and that has always seemed to me like a redundancy that could be avoided.

Ideally, I'd like to have one 240V electric SS pot that would heat all the water, and then do the boil later in the same pot. The mash would be done as it is now, in my cooler conversion MLT.

This seems possible...but if I do this, I have decided it will only be done in conjunction with a move to 10 gal. capacity. And that, of course is the reason so many people do 5 gallons......it's the most the average person can lift and pour safely. To go to 10 gallons, the complexity of the system jumps by an order of magnitude. I've only seen two approaches: first is the simpler gravity "cascade" system, where an HLT on the top tier feeds an MLT on a middle shelf, which then lauters to a boil pot on the lowest level. Although this system is simpler, there is still the need to transport water to the top tier, and then have some way to move chilled wort from the boil pot to a fermenter. Then there is the pumped "horizontal" system, with its complexity of lines, fittings, and pumps, to which one must either minister like a trained monkey, or go with the next level of a computer controlled rig.

I'm still looking....

Sounds like you want to do an electric BIAB. Do a search on here, some people have done it already, super simple with one pot. Scubasteve has a good build thread on here, but you don't have to go as "blingy" as he does.
 
With me It's mainly a matter of seeing or being able to think up a cost-effective electric system that conforms to K.I.S.S. principles.......

. ........And that, of course is the reason so many people do 5 gallons......it's the most the average person can lift and pour safely. To go to 10 gallons, the complexity of the system jumps by an order of magnitude......
I'm still looking....

OK you want K.I.S.S. I find it easy to move sparge water a gallon at a time w/ a simple pitcher, and thereby avoiding a tall cascading structure or a pump.

Rubbermaid-3063-1-Gallon-White-Covered-Pitcher.jpg


HPIM5467.jpg
 
still working on it - nothing to report as of yet really.

I'm going to Home Depot tomorrow to pick up the heating elements. I'm going to go with 2 1500 w elements, one each on a 120v 20 amp circuit. fingers crossed.
 
I just went out and looked at the breaker box - there is a 50a breaker in there as well. I have no idea what it is for... the service main is a 100a switch btw.

Turn on every switch and device in the house.
Flip the 50 amp breaker you have no idea for... Problem solved :D
 
many contractors/electricians will wire a house (i.e. box) for both electric and gas on both the range and dryer....just in case the occupant changes their mind about what they want to use later on..

it may be deadheaded in the wall.
 
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