motobrewer
I'm no atheist scientist, but...
well i'd assume they knew exactly what the law was.
Do your under age kids drink w/you at home?
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Misfit
Well-Known Member
this is perhaps my favorite thread ever!
Technically, he's right about writing someone for 5+ the speed limit. While I've never done less than 10 (and even that rarely), I can certainly see reasons why I'd do it (not worth getting into here, I'm not looking to defend this guy anyway).
Big city policing requires a certain amount of negotiation, both verbally with people face to face, and in the laws one chooses to enforce. Training has taught me that discretion is one of the most important tools a police officer has and more importantly, my experience has proven that to be true. I'd venture that Squirrelly is a small town police officer.
Big city policing requires a certain amount of negotiation, both verbally with people face to face, and in the laws one chooses to enforce. Training has taught me that discretion is one of the most important tools a police officer has and more importantly, my experience has proven that to be true. I'd venture that Squirrelly is a small town police officer.
Of course he's technically right for citing someone for 5 over. But that doesn't make the clerk magistrates around here any less indignant toward the officers who do it when the motorists contest the citation! I've honestly never seen a citation for 5 over stick around here. No officers I know would even consider it.
some communities use the police for local revenue, which is one reason in Pa local police are not permitted to use radar to enforce speed laws. only state police can use radar. I have been pulled over 8 times in my 36 years of driving 3 times by state troopers and always given a warning. I have been pulled over by locals 5 times all cited a violation. No wonder when people see local police officers ones instinct is to grab onto there wallet b/c the legal pirates are about to rob ya. Police wonder why there is mistrust and lack of respect for them, their behavior and decisions have a lot to do with the peoples perception of them.
That's precisely why the police around here have an unwritten rule to not ticket residents of their town unless they are doing something really egregious.
Maybe where you are, but if I make my case and the judge doesn't think I was lying or my estimate and equipment were off, then the summons stands. I don't want to sound like I'm defending Squirelly's attitude on policing, but I am a cop, and have had to testify to hundreds of summonses in court, I don't just come from a family of police officers.
The only reason I mentioned that at all is because a poster in this thread advocated making complaints against cops if they write a 5mph+ summons. Nice attitude. Break the law, then try to make the cop look bad. I consider myself a level headed cop and an almost flawless record to back that up. I'd love to take a BS complaint like that so I can smile when it is summarily dismissed. We answer complaints like that on job time, no skin off my back.
danorocks17
Well-Known Member
I don't have children yet, but when I was growing up I never drank in front of my parents. I have a feeling that looking back if I asked my parents it probably would not have had a problem. they aren't big drinkers to begin with so I didn't want to put them in a weird position or anything. As for when I have children, I guess I'll have to see how I feel when the time comes lol
Your family members might not be too happy to know that you're putting this out there by the way. That would be an awesome lawsuit for an out of town resident to hit your PD/town with.
acuenca
Well-Known Member
My family rarely drank and despite that I've really never had a binging issue. I have already begun asking my 2.5 year old to smell (AND JUST SMELL) the beer, wine, and whisky that I drink because I'd love for him to have an appreciation/education about things that I never had growing up. When he gets older, he will definitely be having some wine/beer/whisky with me...again, I think it augments life so I'm making it an important part of my child's life as well, like introducing him to food that we make in our culture...
It's no secret. Everyone around here knows it. If you're happy ticketing residents for 5 over, more power to you. No cops around here do it.
One day my 4 yr old got a few sips off some of my homebrew when I wasn't looking. I wasn't upset at all, as it's not like he's going to turn into a raging alcoholic now and is doomed. A few weeks later I decided I would offer him a sip of some strawberry wheat, but he told me "No...Beer is for Daddy Only". I almost had a tear come to my eye. With that said, he wont even touch the stuff now....he's a great kid, and the few "illegal" sips he was able to get down I'm sure won't be the cover to his book. It's unfortunate that the American viewpoint is that if you have more than 2 beers a night your a raging alcoholic...yet we have one of the worst teenage binge drinking problems in the world, yet we supposedly are the strictest against underage drinking. Ya'll seeing a pattern like I am? It's like the analogy; tell a kid not to take candy out of the jar, then leave them alone in a room. Of course they are going to take the candy out when your not looking because you put the idea into their head that they shouldn't. It's simple human behavior. If we teach responsible drinking habits vs cramming the fear of God into the young adults that alcohol is the Devil...lol....then I presume the problem would not be as bad....to include drunk driving.
To follow my earlier comment, my parents would let me drink with them while I was in high school. And even though they let me go to drinking parties underage, they always assured me that if I did drink, they would rather get a midnight phone call from me asking for a ride home than from the local police. It's about teaching personal responsibility, vs teaching the "law".
We're all drinking a shot everytime Brees gets sacked. My 2 year old is wrecked!
It's really hard to do when the model representation of the word "*****enozzle" shows up and strikes up a chat. I'm not suggesting who that might be but...
I just found out today that my 4 year old doesn't care for Murphy's Stout at all.
Ya gotta love the blind followers of the almighty government. Civil War 2? Never will happen because we are all are a bunch of pansies that let Uncle Sam do whatever he wants.
Anyways thats my small rant lol.
My kids arent even close to drinking age yet but I did give my son a small sip one day. It was that little bit left on the lip of the can. He wasnt having it at all. I offer to him now just for my amusement and he says no and runs off. When they get to high school age kids do experiment whether we want them to or not. Id rather they do it in my supervision than off at some party with a bunch of stupid kids who dont really care about their well being.
Anyways thats my small rant lol.
My kids arent even close to drinking age yet but I did give my son a small sip one day. It was that little bit left on the lip of the can. He wasnt having it at all. I offer to him now just for my amusement and he says no and runs off. When they get to high school age kids do experiment whether we want them to or not. Id rather they do it in my supervision than off at some party with a bunch of stupid kids who dont really care about their well being.
My kids were allowed to have maybe 1/2 a beer/wine/mixed drink from the time they were 13 or so when we did. Never hurt them and neither of them drink much now as they get into their mid 20's.
Keep it from them and it becomes even more tempting, IMO
Toy4Rick
Keep it from them and it becomes even more tempting, IMO
Toy4Rick
downtown3641
Well-Known Member
Jsamp said:
Because anyone who supports our government is a blind follower? Give me a break. I've never known anyone who has blindly supported everything this government has done.
Bottom line is that laws are just that. They have nothing to do with free will. If you decide to break the
law, that's your choice. It's a gamble and there may be consequences. If you want your kids to try alcohol before they're 21, that's your right. If it's illegal? Well, take your chances and you could face ramifications. That's the beauty of free will and rights.
Wow, this thread sure got interesting. 
i think it's pretty well known that what we are talking about here is legal in almost every state in the union. i've yet to see a poster who has parental experience say anything more that they let the kids have a sip, or a small drink on special occasions. there's no law breaking in that (unless you're in one of those few states). i think the argument back and forth about the legality of allowing a minor to drink in the home is moot, as most of use reside in states where the subject is legal. and no one's advocating allowing children to drink at will. i think teaching a growing child about the realities of the upcoming adult life he/she is soon to enter is a very important part of parenting a teenager or preteen. parents turning a blind eye to the realities of adolescence and pretending their kids aren't being introduced to alcohol (and drugs) is a huge problem these days, IMO. too many parents pretend that kids don't come across tough decisions daily. personally, i feel that teaching a kid to handle adult situations in an adult manor is a good lesson. reality: teenagers experiment with alcohol whether we like it or not. if you show them how responsible adults handle alcohol, and maybe include them in that on a few special occasions, they'll end up with a broader perspective than a kid who's parents act as if this most common of all leisure activities we partake in is such a taboo.
FWIW, if my attitude is somehow flawed because i felt a cop was in the wrong for ticketing me for going 37 in a 35, so be it. i felt this particular officer's attitude wasn't up to par, his lack of professionalism combined with a ticket for 2 over the limit (which BTW, he failed to record on his dash mounted radar) caused me to feel the need to log a complaint. the citation was dismissed, so i don't think i was too off base, and nothing came of the complaint as far as i know. shocking, i know.
just like a cop has a right to have a chip on his/her shoulder and write someone up for 2 over the limit, i have the right to contest and complain, even if it's just to make myself feel better. it's how our system works. 
i think it's pretty well known that what we are talking about here is legal in almost every state in the union. i've yet to see a poster who has parental experience say anything more that they let the kids have a sip, or a small drink on special occasions. there's no law breaking in that (unless you're in one of those few states). i think the argument back and forth about the legality of allowing a minor to drink in the home is moot, as most of use reside in states where the subject is legal. and no one's advocating allowing children to drink at will. i think teaching a growing child about the realities of the upcoming adult life he/she is soon to enter is a very important part of parenting a teenager or preteen. parents turning a blind eye to the realities of adolescence and pretending their kids aren't being introduced to alcohol (and drugs) is a huge problem these days, IMO. too many parents pretend that kids don't come across tough decisions daily. personally, i feel that teaching a kid to handle adult situations in an adult manor is a good lesson. reality: teenagers experiment with alcohol whether we like it or not. if you show them how responsible adults handle alcohol, and maybe include them in that on a few special occasions, they'll end up with a broader perspective than a kid who's parents act as if this most common of all leisure activities we partake in is such a taboo.
FWIW, if my attitude is somehow flawed because i felt a cop was in the wrong for ticketing me for going 37 in a 35, so be it. i felt this particular officer's attitude wasn't up to par, his lack of professionalism combined with a ticket for 2 over the limit (which BTW, he failed to record on his dash mounted radar) caused me to feel the need to log a complaint. the citation was dismissed, so i don't think i was too off base, and nothing came of the complaint as far as i know. shocking, i know.
just like a cop has a right to have a chip on his/her shoulder and write someone up for 2 over the limit, i have the right to contest and complain, even if it's just to make myself feel better. it's how our system works. 
Tonight has been a good night for me. I've been watching some football and enjoying a couple of homebrews with my 18 y/o son. I have no problem letting him have a beer or two as long as I know he will be home and not driving around. I think it helps him learn some responsibility when it comes to drinking
So here is the thing. I belong to several BBs. This one perplexes me. Here we have a great discussion. Someone disagrees with the vast majority and we all pile on. Standard for any bulletin board. He defends himself and we continue. Also par for the course. But then it gets nasty. We call him names. We act as if he is some worthless person who's opinion or comment is unworthy and we run him off.
This isn't cool. There should be a certain level of respect warranted. Now I realize he called us all irresponsible and his opinion was a little out there, but I've seen this enough times to have to wonder, WHAT THE **** IS OUR PROBLEM?
So we don't agree with the guy. That's no reason for attacking him personally.
This isn't cool. There should be a certain level of respect warranted. Now I realize he called us all irresponsible and his opinion was a little out there, but I've seen this enough times to have to wonder, WHAT THE **** IS OUR PROBLEM?
So we don't agree with the guy. That's no reason for attacking him personally.
I'd vote in support of that. Don't know a single friend growing up who was injured by booze, been to more then one funeral for friends lost to car accidents.
TheBreweryUnderground
Well-Known Member
"Oh judge! Your damn laws! The good people don't need them, and the bad people don't obey them." ~Ammon Hennacy
Also mostly what people are talking about is not against the law in most states, as in having a beer with their parent at their home. Prohibitionist laws/thoughts have still got a hold on us. If kids want to get drunk they'll find themselves a shady looking bum to buy it for themselves or go to that quickmart they know doesn't card. If kids try some tasty homebrew they'll ask their parent and know what good beer tastes like, natural light won't be so appealing any more. Most of it comes down to trust and understanding in a parents relationship with their kids, whenever I have kids I will make it very clear that they should not feel ashamed to give me a call ever if they are in a situation with no sober responsible drivers.
Also mostly what people are talking about is not against the law in most states, as in having a beer with their parent at their home. Prohibitionist laws/thoughts have still got a hold on us. If kids want to get drunk they'll find themselves a shady looking bum to buy it for themselves or go to that quickmart they know doesn't card. If kids try some tasty homebrew they'll ask their parent and know what good beer tastes like, natural light won't be so appealing any more. Most of it comes down to trust and understanding in a parents relationship with their kids, whenever I have kids I will make it very clear that they should not feel ashamed to give me a call ever if they are in a situation with no sober responsible drivers.
djfriesen
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From someone who has no children, but was not exposed to alcohol growing up:
I plan on trying to provide a good example of responsible drinking to my kids. I never had that, as my parents believe alcohol use in any and all forms (except maybe cooking wine) is wrong.
Fortunately, I do not hold such an opinion, nor do I want my children to, at least not from a position of ignorance. I want to show them what responsible alcohol use looks like; allow them to try it, within the confines of applicable laws; and make their own decisions regarding its use.
Hopefully, if they can see me enjoy it, it will take away some of the mystery, and allow them to make an informed decision.
I plan on trying to provide a good example of responsible drinking to my kids. I never had that, as my parents believe alcohol use in any and all forms (except maybe cooking wine) is wrong.
Fortunately, I do not hold such an opinion, nor do I want my children to, at least not from a position of ignorance. I want to show them what responsible alcohol use looks like; allow them to try it, within the confines of applicable laws; and make their own decisions regarding its use.
Hopefully, if they can see me enjoy it, it will take away some of the mystery, and allow them to make an informed decision.
Never pleasant, but in some cases warranted.
I let my assistant brewer Grace (7) have a sip of my FG sample yesterday. I thought it kinda tasted like fruit juice due to the Citra hops and it was a Pale Ale (FG of 1.013, so it is done). She could hardly bring herself to barely get a drop on her tongue. Oh well, at least she won't be sneaking beers anytime soon. I know she wouldn't like to try the RIS we made...
Bernie Brewer
Grouchy Old Fart
How long ago was that? I will concede that it may have been legal in the past, but I am almost positive that it is no longer the case. Once you turn 18, your parents can no longer give you permission to drink.
BigUgly
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I was raised in a no-alcohol household where there was never a drop in our house at any point. This led to me sneaking around and binge drinking whenever I got a chance to do it, and it never led to anything good. Now as I'm older, I see my cousins who are <20 drink with their families and it isn't some rebellious act that they get a high off of when they get to do it. I don't want to change how I was raised (because we had some great times sneaking to old Mexico to party), but I definitely see the benefits of sharing a beer or two with the kids to let them familiarize themselves with responsible behavior.
I grew up in a more conservative state with parents that didn't drink much. I still managed to get my share of sips from responsible adults. I doubt any judge in this sate would nail them with contributing for just a taste. By my teenage years I no longer lived with my parents. The people I lived with drank responsibly and let me have some on special occasions like Thanksgiving and my graduation day.
I haven't let my kids. If they asked I might. Reading this makes me think camping in Nevada might be a better place to offer it. As a teenager growing up in rural Utah drinking out in the wilderness was great entertainment. I know first hand from back then that the sheriffs department wants to charge the contributor. I like being on the right side of the law now.
edit...
After reading some of the Utah code I found this about consumption by a monior.
It looks like that website has it wrong.
I haven't let my kids. If they asked I might. Reading this makes me think camping in Nevada might be a better place to offer it. As a teenager growing up in rural Utah drinking out in the wilderness was great entertainment. I know first hand from back then that the sheriffs department wants to charge the contributor. I like being on the right side of the law now.
edit...
After reading some of the Utah code I found this about consumption by a monior.
It looks like that website has it wrong.
mcarb said:
I would guess, as with all bb trolls. Once a person starts ignoring facts, like the truth about the federal minimum drinking age act, the laws allowing consumption in some states by minors, and then personally attacks parents by calling them irresponsible... Yeah that's typically where the naming calling begins.
On topic: my daughter is allowed a sip of whatever I have. She will also never see me drink more than one (after she goes to bed is a different matter). However after getting hold of a few spicy bloody Mary's and the occasional scotch, she no longer wants a sip, just a smell. She won't even take a sip of baileys even though she likes the smell a lot. I was raised with no alcohol, we barely discussed it and I drank way to much my first few years in college. I don't want to raise my kids to find out the hard way. If I can teach them (it's legal for educational purposes here) then I will.
Not really how it all transpired. First, said person, called other people irresponsible parents for allowing their kids to taste their beer when it's against the law. Said person, being of law enforcement, didn't even know that it's not actually illegal to allow one's own children in their presence and provided by themselves a bit of alcohol.
That isn't where it went crazy though, it's when said person shared personal beliefs that are in line with fascism. Of course that will be met with objection and rightfully so. Just sayin'
Everyone needs to be careful what they say or deal with the fallout. Yooper stepped in though to reign things in.
Rev.
bovineblitz
Well-Known Member
In the small town where my gf grew up you had to go no more than 3 over the speed limit. It was unbelievably hard to go 33mph on fairly deserted rural roads but the cops would write tickets for 5 over and apparently you couldn't get rid of the ticket.
It's insane but what can you do.
This is the same place where her brother got pulled over for changing his mind at a stop sign and deciding to go right instead of left. Apparently the cop said that you can't change your signal direction within 20 feet of a corner which of course is not a law at all... and the cop had been following him for over a mile which is also not kosher. The cop THEN demanded to search the car and her brother said no, so the cop called two additional squad cars and held him for 45min before letting him go because he had no right to search the car. Of course it's a small town and her father was a prominent community member so made an angry call to the police station over this outrageous situation and the offending cop was forced to call their house and apologize.
Two days later her brother's tires were slashed in their driveway.
Rural cops are scary.
So are you law enforcement or a tax collector?
dwarven_stout
Well-Known Member
Interesting choice of words. I was thinking more "scintillating example of Air Force (Reserve) Security Forces".
The drinking age in the US is honestly BS. It should be at the VERY highest 18. If you can go die in Iraq for your country, but you can't legally have a beer..there is something severely wrong with the law. I've been drinking since I was 15(currently 24) and my dad would occasionally let me have a beer/margarita with him..because he knew I would drink elsewhere regardless. He always told me if I EVER needed a ride to call him, no matter what time of night.
I honestly wouldn't want it any other way for my kids. My sister in laws husband is from Germany and he said the legal age for beer and wine is 16(I think) and liquor is 18. I see nothing wrong with that. Besides, introducing alcohol to younger individuals is better because they won't be curious to try it for themselves..and the likely hood of rebellion is lesser.
I honestly wouldn't want it any other way for my kids. My sister in laws husband is from Germany and he said the legal age for beer and wine is 16(I think) and liquor is 18. I see nothing wrong with that. Besides, introducing alcohol to younger individuals is better because they won't be curious to try it for themselves..and the likely hood of rebellion is lesser.
That is correct about the ages in Germany for beer/wine and spirits. My wife and I go there all the time. We found it quite intriguing one time when we were out at dinner to see a young girl, probably about 7 or so, having dinner with her mom and she was drinking a non-alcoholic beer all herself, no kidding.
Most kids hate the bitter taste at that age, and this wasn't a real beer so it's not fully on the topic here per se, but still... seeing a kid drinking a non-alcoholic beer is still something you don't see everyday... or ever lol.
Rev.
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