Making a "CLEAR" beer...help me

Hi there,

I have three AG batches under my belt and am learning as I go using my RIMS I built and everyone's advice from this board. I have made a raspberry wheat that was cloudy (wheat which is expected) and a newcastle clone that was darker than normal from me tweaking the recipe....but still a bit cloudy. I have a 16g FB in my MLT and I use bags for all hops and all additions.

I normally add whirlfock at the 15 min boil, ferment in a sanke for 3 weeks, cold crash for 48 hours in the sanke, rack from the top using C02 as it feeds into my cornies and very careful with getting any visible debris inthe transfer tube as I transfer.

WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?

Thanks
Joe

Never had or brewed Newcastle, but you can use gelatin when you cold crash. You might want to crash longer also. Can't hurt.

Never heard of utilizing gelatin....can you explain this please?

I know that 4 weeks could be a little too long in primary, but I do not transfer to secondaries....I have read enough and don't think it's necessary (IMO). Two days at 40* is not enough for cold crashing?

Thanks
Joe

When you say that you use a bag for "all additions" does that mean the whirlflock tab as well? You might want to just toss it directly in your boil rather than in the bag.

sorry about that...the whirlfloc is the only thing I throw directly in

I use a 40 plate chiller so my main goal is to "NOT" clog this thing

You prolly just need more time...

Do a search though on gelatin finings like waldoar15 mentioned, or look at this thread, and look for BierMuncher's posts. Gelatin will speed up what will naturally take place over time as the yeast and proteins coagulate (stick together) and drop out of suspension.

I use a teaspoon of gelatin in most of my beers at kegging, and by the time I'm a few pints into the keg, about a week after kegging, mine look pretty good.



Oh, BTW, you can get plain unflavored gelatin at the grocery store, Knorr is what I use.

waldoar15 said:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/gelatin-no-joke-153093/

Click to expand...

And time...If you have enough time to let your beer cold conditon, you'll be amazed how clear it drops. Gelatin is for the impatient...ask me how I know.

Your "problem" is haze inducing proteins. The easiest way to remove them is time. Let the beer sit and the proteins will settle. If you are impatient
You can add your choice of coagulants to cause these proteins to drop out of solution quicker.

Gelatin is an inexpensive choice that works very well. You can do a search of this site that will tell you all you need to know. Roughly, add 1/2 teaspoon of gelatin (Knox brand unflavored is fine) to 1 cup of water. Bring the temp up to 160 F or so. Add to the keg and then transfer your beer on top.

You could also do a "secondary" or conditioning step where you transfer your beer from it's primary vessel to a second vessel with the gelatin added. Keep it there for 3-5 days and your brew will be very clear.

Then you can transfer it to your keg and carbonate as usual.

You may want to experiment with the dosing of gelatin. BierMuchner suggests 1 tablespoon. I have found that amount removes hop flavor and aroma. The 1/2 teaspoon works well for me.

Another fining agent is Polyclar. This is derived from inorganic sources rather than the organic that gelatin is harvested from.

Good luck.

Gelatin is quick, and works AWESOME. But even without, after at least 2 weeks undisturbed in a fridge, it will drop pretty clear on its own.

I have an example that I will use....correct me if I am wrong.

I brewed an orange/coriander APA in December so hypothetically it should be ready to drink on the 8th of February.

As I mentioned I primary in a sanke for 3+ weeks and never transfer into a secondary. Right around the 3 week mark I cold crash for 48 hours then I transfer into corney kegs and stick 'em in the fridge for a week, force carbonate and drink.

I have not gotten into the good habit of checking FG's throughout the primary. The beers I am making are normally ready to drink after a month. Now for my question(s):

Somebody mentioned that adding this gelatin to the beer when kegging clears it up after a few pints....how does this happen if the suspended particles drop to the bottom where the pickup tube is?

After it goes into my plate chiller and into the sanke fermenter, is this when I add the gelatin mixture or do I wait until initial yeast activity to slow/stop and then add?

The orange APA is supposed to get kegged on the 28th, dry hopped and drank on the 8th of February. Should I just stick the keg in the 40* fridge now and see how the clarity goes?

Is it too late to add the gelatin mixture now?

Thanks for the help.

Joe

ILOVEBEER said:

how does this happen if the suspended particles drop to the bottom where the pickup tube is?

After it goes into my plate chiller and into the sanke fermenter, is this when I add the gelatin mixture or do I wait until initial yeast activity to slow/stop and then add?

The orange APA is supposed to get kegged on the 28th, dry hopped and drank on the 8th of February. Should I just stick the keg in the 40* fridge now and see how the clarity goes?

Is it too late to add the gelatin mixture now?

Thanks for the help.

Joe

Click to expand...

The gelatin "pulls" the haze ingredients out of suspension and drops to the bottom. After one or two pints, all runs clear.

Wait until you are ready to keg, i.e. fermentation/aging are over.

That's kinda short to clear without gelatin. Just add it when you rack to the keg. It works.

When you are ready to keg, put a small pot on your stove with 100-200 mL cold water. Add 1 tbsp gelatin, (or 1 packet knox unflavored gelatin from the grocery store...this is what I use and it works WAY better than the LD Carlson crap). Wait 20 minutes. Stir. Heat up to 180F, (or until it looks like it's about to simmer). DO NOT BOIL. Shut off heat, let sit a few minutes to pasteurize. Pour into keg. Rack beer on top. Chill keg for 2 days. Clear beer.

You can also just dump it into already carbonated beer...(just put the keg lid back on quickly!!).

Shortyjacobs,

YAY.......I get it now. Some say add the gelatin ON TOP of the kegged beer and others say add it to the Corney first, then rack the beer ontop.

Does it matter?

Thanks for the help!
Joe

Wayne1 said:

Another fining agent is Polyclar. This is derived from inorganic sources rather than the organic that gelatin is harvested from.

Click to expand...

Just for accuracies sake, Polyclar is "organic". This fining agent is a polyvinylpolypyrolidone (PVPP), a polymer that binds organic molecules, such as as tannins and meladonin. Polyclar doesn't scavenge proteins nearly as well gelatin.

@Joe For what it's worth I use 1 tbsp of gelatin when I keg and rack on top of it. Chilling and force carbing for a week has always yielded a crystal clear beer in my hands.

Very cool...thank you rushis. It almost makes more sense to me to add the gelatin to the top of the racked beer....not sure if it matters.

Coincidentally, I kinda have to keep the cold crashing and corney kegs at 40* since they share the fridge with food and waters/soda etc. Is this a good temp to cold crash/condition and make proper use of the gelatin additions?

Also when I force carb I do the turn over method at 20 psi for 15 minutes and let it sit for a few hours in the kegerator before I pour my first glass. Is this going to be counterproductive
with the gelatin usage?

Thanks
Joe

+1 for Knoxx Gelatine!

Does Geletin work if you bottle? Could you just put it in the bottling bucket, rack onto it and bottle? Or does geletin only work for kegging?

40F should be fine for the gelatin. Your carbing method shouldn't effect the gelatin as long as you give the fining agent time to work at cool temperatures. Cold crashing with gelatin for a 1 day to 1 week before carbing should do the trick.

Since I started adding gelatin when I keg, I usually carb by the set and forget method. If I pull a pint after 2-3 days the beer is pretty clear but under-carbed (obviously). After a week everything is fully carbed and the beer is crystal clear. For my methods and system, it takes a week of chilling to get the best results with gelatin. Your "mileage" may very significantly.

FYI: I am using plain old unflavored Knox gelatin.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the gelatin mixture should not be added into cold beer - or vice versa - due to risk that the gelatin may congeal prematurely, and fall out of suspension without taking many other particles with it. I thought gelatin should be added to the 65-70*F beer, right before cold crashing in order to give it time to work before the beer cools too much, or into slightly warmer beer as it is being kegged to avoid this problem.

Gelatin will work for bottling.

I would suggest adding it to your fermenter 3-5 days before bottling.

Racking into a second vessel and adding the gelatin at racking will also work.

The beer can sit at room temps for 3-5 days. Proteins will drop out.

Please follow the procedures mentioned above for rehydrating and sanitizing the gelatin.

I have added gelatin to the keg then racked beer on top of it, no problem

I have added beer to the keg then poured in the gelatin on top, no problem.

I have first chilled the beer, then added gelatin on top, no problem.

I have chilled, carbonated, drank some beer, then added gelatin, no problem.

I have yet to find a way to screw it up. As long as you prepare it right, I think it's darn easy.

As for whether you can turn your keg upside down to carbonate it, no, that won't "hurt" the gelatin at all. Just remember, you need a few days for the gelatin to settle to the bottom of the keg, then you need to pull 1-2 pints to suck all that crap out! Every time you disturb the keg, you will shake up some stuff inside, and it will take a day or two to settle back out, gelatin or no.

Thanks shortyjacobs....You have been a big help!