Why so expensive?

So I have been through this a thousand times in my head and on paper and the math just doesnt add up.. Why are brewing systems so expensive? There's not enough metal and fabrication in a basic three tier design or a single tier unit to justify the enormous price tags.. Am I missing something?

niche market.

I concede the niche market point, but especially in economic times like we have today, the value recieved has to be somewhat aligned with price paid.. I dont see the value..

JamieT said:

I concede the niche market point, but especially in economic times like we have today, the value recieved has to be somewhat aligned with price paid.. I dont see the value..

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Because a big badaXX brewing system is a luxury toy like a BMW or Lexus. You don't need glimmering stainless steel, digital burner control, and a "happy ending" attachment to make good beer just as you don't need a luxury car to drive to work either.

The biggest reason why some people buy these systems is that they are making up for the lack of "substance", if you know what I mean.

I think that you will find on this site, the build to buy ratio for brew stands to be about 20 to 1 or more.

So others see it the way that you do.

Which brings up the convenience factor.

If I have more money than time (to build) then the price makes a little more sense.

There is no mass production which means the builders aren't getting mass discounts on materials, plus there is a lot of specific Skill Labor such as welding and electrical. Requires actual skilled laborers, not just minimum wage teenager or uneducated assembly line workers to build them

McKBrew said:

The biggest reason why some people buy these systems is that they are making up for the lack of "substance", if you know what I mean.

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That's nuts. I make great beer out of a cooler and a turkey burner with a 15 gallon aluminum pot. If I had the 5 grand I would jump all over the Sabco. I have most of the knowledge and ability to build a system, but don't care to devote the massive hours required to do so.

wildwest450 said:

That's nuts. I make great beer out of a cooler and a turkey burner with a 15 gallon aluminum pot. If I had the 5 grand I would jump all over the Sabco. I have most of the knowledge and ability to build a system, but don't care to devote the massive hours required to do so.

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I should have put the symbol there. Amazing how not using it makes a big difference. I'm kidding dude.

You would be surprised how much those systems cost by the time you add everything up.

Check out my sig links and you will see that my system with "free" labor and bargain hunting will still cost about $4000 at least. There is a lot that goes into those shiney systems and none of the parts are consumer grade. Almost everything is industrial, where price is way different that going to Walmart.

McKBrew said:

I should have put the symbol there. Amazing how not using it makes a big difference. I'm kidding dude.

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Oh, I thought it was a bad beer/tiny pecker joke. I would still love to buy a Sabco, but it won't happen in this lifetime.

wildwest450 said:

That's nuts. I make great beer out of a cooler and a turkey burner with a 15 gallon aluminum pot. If I had the 5 grand I would jump all over the Sabco. I have most of the knowledge and ability to build a system, but don't care to devote the massive hours required to do so.

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Even if I was given 5k I wouldn't spend it on a brewing system, I can build one that fits me better and is cheaper, I'd rather use that to put a bar in the basement. In reality most of it would go into investments and I'd "play" with like $500, but I'm weird like that.

The price of these systems is not surprising when you start adding up the numbers. You have to figure the cost not just of materials but of tools and skilled labor. Then add in over head and a reasonable profit margin and numbers quickly add up.

Are they worth it? That depends on the individual. If you really want a nice tiered system but you don't have the time and/or skill to put one together yourself then one of these systems would get you a really nice system with little fuss, for a price.

For myself, I'm more the used economy car kind of guy. I tend to go with a reliable, efficient solution to my needs. Plus I don't have any room for a tiered system So I am limited to individual elements like a turkey fryer, cooler and stock pot.

Craig

Even the bare bones 3-Tier "post" style rigs are $2k plus without any fancy electronic gadgets.. I just cant believe the floor is that high... Someone needs to design and build an economy version, thats all I'm saying.. Right now I dont feel like I need (note the "feel like") all of the gizmos, but I would like a purpose built 3 tier unit that doesnt take up a ton of space and that I can bolt on upgrades as my needs / wants / wallet align..

In that case, 2x4s and a framing nailer are what you need. Just place the burners on top of wood platforms. Cheap and works like a champ.

Once you enter the world of metal and add on, the cost will build.

Not sure where you're looking, but morebeer has a 3 tiered gravity system WITH 3 8 gallon pots for $1500. Take those pots away and you could be looking at $1200 - $1300.

Kilted Brewer said:

Not sure where you're looking, but morebeer has a 3 tiered gravity system WITH 3 8 gallon pots for $1500. Take those pots away and you could be looking at $1200 - $1300.

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Are you referring to this New B3-500 5 Gallon Gravity BrewSculpture | MoreBeer?? It is $1500..

As far as I can tell this "system" includes niether the pots nor the gas system.. I didnt another one but that certainly doesnt mean I didnt miss it..

The system you linked does include everything you need. Burners, pots and stand.

You do have to deal with shipping though, which will hurt bad.

If you really want a metal stand you could try asking your local highschool's metal shop or something like that.

I'm building my system, and it adds up fast. Electronics and stainless everything (I don't care about your views on brass) really get costly when you need multiple of each.

OK..Thx.. I see where it does include the kettles, but the gas system looks like a $120 adder.

Yeah, read the first paragraph on the page. States it comes with 3 8 gallon pots. If you check out the PDF, the HLT has bulkhead, sight glass and temp gauge, MLT has bulkhead, temp gauge and false bottom and the boil kettle has a bulkhead). Price that out and the HLT is 295.95, MLT is 259.95 and boil kettle is 159.95. That's half the cost right there. Maybe you can convince them to sell the structure without the pots.

wildwest450 said:

That's nuts. I make great beer out of a cooler and a turkey burner with a 15 gallon aluminum pot. If I had the 5 grand I would jump all over the Sabco. I have most of the knowledge and ability to build a system, but don't care to devote the massive hours required to do so.

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I have the money to buy a brew magic or a B3 system.. Hell, I could buy two and add a few conicals in a walk in. I just don't see the value and I used building a system as an excuse to learn how to weld.

JamieT said:

Even the bare bones 3-Tier "post" style rigs are $2k plus without any fancy electronic gadgets.. I just cant believe the floor is that high... Someone needs to design and build an economy version, thats all I'm saying.. Right now I dont feel like I need (note the "feel like") all of the gizmos, but I would like a purpose built 3 tier unit that doesnt take up a ton of space and that I can bolt on upgrades as my needs / wants / wallet align..

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Problem once you include labor costs for a low volume hand built product you are still looking at a few hundred dollars. Then profit margins bump it even more.
Now your selling a very large heavy item to a national market. Shipping is going to be $100+. By including the higher value puts and fittings with the system they don't add much to the shipping cost but can sell for a better profit.

Any time you have low volume hand built products with a limited market prices will be much higher than similar high volume products. It is economy of scale at play.

Craig

I found this setup, it actually seems to be close to reasonable in price. It does include the kettles and all kettle fittings you see in the pic. Throw a pump on there and your good to go.

Synergy Metalworking Custom Metal Fabrication

Great Link!!!! Do you know where they are located?

Bobby_M said:

I have the money to buy a brew magic or a B3 system.. Hell, I could buy two and add a few conicals in a walk in. I just don't see the value and I used building a system as an excuse to learn how to weld.

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Hey there, Mr. Fancypants!

Even if it were for the same money, I would probably want to build my own. I don't know how to weld and I don't know much about programmable controls, but building my own rig sure would be a great way to learn those things.

Just for the record, I can't afford any of the things that Bobby can.

Boerderij_Kabouter said:

Great Link!!!! Do you know where they are located?

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541 is an Oregon area code. But it looks kinda flimsy to me.

That's because you are used to seeing the systems here that are often built to support two tanks and the Thunderdome and survive through the post apocalyptic serenading of Tina Turner while being heated to 1000ºK.

The systems they have are much more appropriately sized for what we do.

I'd love a Sabco system but but have to live with a 2x4 frame budget.

*sigh*

dude, just build your own and save a few grand

Kilted Brewer said:

541 is an Oregon area code. But it looks kinda flimsy to me.

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You have to remember, they are a metal fabricating business first, I was assured by them that it is plenty sturdy for it's intended purpose, and it's portable which is cool.

I thought the same thing as the OP when I started building mine last spring. I thought, "Hey, the raw materials aren't that expensive, I can do this for considerably less than buying one..."

Ha..what you don't see in all that brew stand glory are all the little fittings, quick connects, valves, hoses, etc. That $hit adds up in a hurry. Would I buy instead of build next time? He!! no..building was half the fun and deciding what parts you want, how to make it work in your brewing process, etc.

The materials of the structure are barely half the cost. I wont claim a brewstand has better 'value' as the OP mentioned, but in my case, It helps with my brew day. I can make 10 gallons in the time I used to make 5, I can control temps better..and d@mn it..it was fun building. I would do it again.

MN, true statement......


However if you look at what B3 or Sabco is charging for a similar setup, we still came out on top by 1 or 2 thousand

Chimone said:

MN, true statement......


However if you look at what B3 or Sabco is charging for a similar setup, we still came out on top by 1 or 2 thousand

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Yes we did. I'd have to check my final numbers on my spreadsheet. But even if I count all the little trips back to the hardware store, I know I am a couple grand less than what I see in the brewshop magazines that come in the mail.

But it was still alot more than I had planned. But then again I changed my mind on some things mid build. Style of quick connects, type of hoses, valves, added pilot light safety valves, etc.

I want to build one myself as well. Unless I will the lottery. I would just need to find someone that is either a cheap welder or have to go out and buy welding tools and tackle it myself. I think it would be a fun DIY project to complete over a year or so. However, since I know jack about welding that would be the first hurdle to over come. Every now and again someone sells a sculpture on craigslist. hopefully next time one is advertised I will be prepared to buy. in the mean time my Coleman 70qt Extreme is more than enough for my brewing needs for now

Yeah I bought one. And no, I am not compensating for lack of anything else. My big truck already compensates enough for my lil........

I bought because I have no time to build, nor the desire. I have seen first hand the quality of construction of both the Sabco and the B3 and I had a preference to the Sabco.

I bought because of the outstanding customer support that comes with the system.

I bought because I could afford too.

So if the $6+ (including accessories $7k) is too steep for you, build one for less. As for me, every dollar was well spent.

I do not think that 5k is too bad a deal for the Sabco since it comes complete as opposed to B3 which is add on after add on. Well once I sell my house and get a much smaller house I might look into the Sabco. I do not have a lot of toys with the exception of my computers. I can see myself dropping 5K someday.

zman said:

I do not think that 5k is too bad a deal for the Sabco since it comes complete as opposed to B3 which is add on after add on. Well once I sell my house and get a much smaller house I might look into the Sabco. I do not have a lot of toys with the exception of my computers. I can see myself dropping 5K someday.

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When I ran an Apples to Apples (equally appointed systems) between B3 and Sabco I came up with a $400 difference (not including shipping). Too small a difference for me plus, I have brewed on a B3 tippy and I did not like it.

If I was going to dish out cash for a turn key system, I'd go PICO, for value and efficency.

Being the stubborn 'I'd rather do it myself even if it ain't as quality', I plan to build or modify everything I do myself, just because.

pico - Brewing Systems Inc.

CRAFT Home Brew Club Pico System

The only thing I do not like about the Pico is that it is not on a stand. It looks good otherwise

I've always thought it would be cool to build one completely out of brick as part of an outdoor kitchen. You know, with a smoker, grill and everything all built in.