Want to make some sour beer? Join my wine-barrel project in the Portland area.

Mr Pear, I'd be willing to give you 5 of my 20 gallon allotment if you could add the ECY01. Do you know if you can make starters with ECY, or does it have to be pitched as is so as not to alter the makeup?

I'm going to propose June 29th as our group pitch day. Let me know if you can do it. Well do a lambic style and a month will give everyone enough time to assemble ingredients, brew, and finish primary.

I am at the beach June 27-July2, so I'll have to brew the 26th if that is fine.

You are all welcome to drop off your carboys at my place beforehand if you can't make it.

Hey hey! Just checking in! Maybe I missed it...
Do we have the grain bill mapped out for each individual?

So group pitch means we all brewing on that day or dumping the brew into the barrel?

Is there a group meet up for the ingredients buy day?

Super stoked!

We haven't gotten the recipe, but I figured a date would kick us into gear, and by us, I mean me

Yes, group pitch will be the day when we add all our different batches into the barrel. I think we should probably schedule next weekend for group buy. We can meet at brew brothers and get everything milled there to save us time and $$.

I'm going to go through and PM everyone just to make sure people know what's going on.

Between today and next weekend, let's get the grain bill decided on.

theveganbrewer said:

Between today and next weekend, let's get the grain bill decided on.

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I'm still in favor of keeping it simple. Maybe the grain bill I proposed, we can switch the white wheat for unmalted if that's still what you want to do. We could also add some naked oats or not. What do you guys think?

P.S. @theveganbrewer Are you going to have any of that Heady Topper Clone available at the barrel fill? Would love to try it.

Brewbien said:

I'm still in favor of keeping it simple. Maybe the grain bill I proposed, we can switch the white wheat for unmalted if that's still what you want to do. We could also add some naked oats or not. What do you guys think?

P.S. @theveganbrewer Are you going to have any of that Heady Topper Clone available at the barrel fill? Would love to try it.

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I doubt it lasts another week, but I might brew up another one in a couple days that we could tap on pitch day

Brewbien said:

Any updates on this? I was thinking keeping the malt bill simple is probably going to yield the best results. Perhaps the all grain version of this.

Maybe end up with something like:

8 Pounds 2-Row (or Golden Promise)
8 Pounds White Wheat
.5 pounds malto dextrin
4oz. aged hops

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This is very similar to http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2009/08/lambic-3-turbid-mash.html so I think something along those lines will work. Here are his notes on the recipe, and the turbid mash: http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2011/03/lambicgueuze-tasting-almost-there.html

Maybe Pilsner base, White, Wheat, and Malto dextrin? What about yeast? Roselare or a Lambic blend? I'd like to pitch dregs from some wild beers on pitch day too.

I'm still trying to get my hands on some isolated bugs from Cantillon Iris too.

From everything I've read, Roselare has great results. Maybe everyone can bring their favorite sour on pitch day also.

I've used Roselare once and was pretty happy with the results. June 29th should be fine for me.

Should we bring some growler's of homebrew along for dump day or is it a dump-and-run?

jhalloran said:

Should we bring some growler's of homebrew along for dump day or is it a dump-and-run?

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Definitely bring them over. What do you all think about the dregs? Should be pitch them on our own with the Roselare, or wait until barrel day? I'm used to pitching them at the same time, just wondering if that might be something to consider.

If anyone is going to go two Brew Brothers next weekend, we can get a list together of ingredients and call them soon to make sure they have enough yeast and grain for us.

Sweet! I think pitching dregs in the barrel sounds like fun. I have no idea how it would turn out. Did you have any specific bottle dregs you were thinking about? John's Market is on my route home, so I could pick up a bottle and drink most of it for science.

I just got a job with Brewvana as a tour guide! WOOO

jhalloran said:

Sweet! I think pitching dregs in the barrel sounds like fun. I have no idea how it would turn out. Did you have any specific bottle dregs you were thinking about? John's Market is on my route home, so I could pick up a bottle and drink most of it for science.

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It's an effective way to increase the complexity in the final product. I know a lot of people like to pitch Jolly Pumpkin La Roja. You want something as fresh as possible. John's has some Jolly Pumpkin, Brouwerij, RR sours, Brouwerij 3 Fonteinen, Bavik.

Here's a list of some commercial beers with bugs in them:

http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2010/06/harvesting-sour-beer-bottle-dregs.html

FWIW, I'm still in for my part (thanks for the PM, vb). I'm available on all the dates mentioned above so whenever you folks like I'll be there.

I'm not sure I can do a turbid mash, as I have only one kettle and one burner (http://i.imgur.com/wVO9Isz.jpg) ...my kettle doubles as the HLT and I use fermentation buckets to collect the runnings.

That said, there is a decommissioned keg with my name on it at a buddy's house... hmm...

Would using some turbid mash wort and some not be a problem? Just wondering if maybe 20 gallons of turbid with raw white wheat and then 40 with regular mash and malted white wheat would be good for the Brett and bugs.

theveganbrewer said:

Would using some turbid mash wort and some not be a problem? Just wondering if maybe 20 gallons of turbid with raw white wheat and then 40 with regular mash and malted white wheat would be good for the Brett and bugs.

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I can't think of any reason that would be an issue. May lead to some additional complexity, body, and mouthfeel in the final product.

Just posting to let ya'll know I'm still in and super excited. Don't we only need a few people to turbid mash if they pull a bigger turbid portion to make up for those who didn't? Or would we be missing out on complexity because of the differences in times and temperatures breaking down the starches.

I always forget to check in on this post because the title is so long I never read it all and pass over it. I'll have 20 gallons of turbid ready. If you can do it, go for it, if not, just do a regular mash at 156-8 or so. It'll be good.

Who is down for Brew Brothers this weekend for ingredients?

I could meet up Saturday or Sunday. I need to be back to the Goose Hollow Max by 3:00. I would prefer to by 10:30 or so.

I'm down for either day at really any time.

So to be perfectly clear, what's the non-turbid grain bill (by %) and what's the target OG?

For non-turbid, shall we mash at something in the middle of the road (say, 153)?

Are we pitching our own yeast or waiting until "dump day" to pitch yeast into the barrel?

Still working on specifics. I think we're going with:

I'm thinking 1.047 with 60/40 Pilsner and White Wheat and 5% Maltodextrine for body.

For 5 gallons, that's 5-1/4 pounds Pilsner and 3-1/2 pounds White Wheat and 8 ounces of Maltodextrine.

Pitch at home with Roselare and a bottle of your favorite dregs. Then bring over to dump on same day. I think common wisdom is to pitch the dregs bugs initially with the yeast. We can do that on our own time then just suck up some yeast and trub if we want some in the barrel for the brett to eat during the aging process.

I'll be out of town this weekend but if that's the final recipe, I'll just grab my ingredients tonight and brew when I get back on Monday.

theveganbrewer said:

Pitch at home with Roselare and a bottle of your favorite dregs.

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If everyone pitches with a bottle of their favorite dregs... isn't that going to result in something all over the map bug-wise?

theveganbrewer said:

...Then bring over to dump on same day.

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Brewbien said:

I'll just grab my ingredients tonight and brew when I get back on Monday.

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I'm confused... let's see if I have this right:

• Some number of us are picking up grain this weekend.
• We are not doing our own primary
• Therefore our brewday will likely be on or around "dump day" ... which is ~the 29th? Brewing this weekend or on Monday is way early...

I don't think everybody is on the same page; do you agree with the bullet points TVB?

I was just posting ideas, that's why there is some overlap. I asked the question a few posts back about whether it was beneficial to pitch dregs and primary yeast at the same time. Every batch I do with bugs I always pitch the bugs and the primary yeast at the same time, so I was thinking it'd be best to do that here too, but was open for ideas.

As far as being all over the place with bugs, that's good, complex beer is what we want, diverse selection of bugs. I guess we could just pitch dregs right into the barrel, but by that time, they'd be going into 60 gallons of hostile beer without having the opportunity to grow in less hostile conditions prior to fermentation.

Brew day should be in the next week or so, we are doing primary fermentation on our own, then dumping all the beer into the barrel for secondary and aging. I think

So just to clarify, this is what is on the table:

Grain bill- 1.047OG- 60% Pilsner, 40% White Wheat (use malted if you're not doing turbid mash). Mash at 156.
Hops- Aged or Low Alpha, 10 IBU final
Yeast- Wyeast Roselare 3763 (Do not make a starter)
Dregs- I'm waffling on this, but I think we can do a pitch on barrel day, so bring 1 nice sour beer to drink and pitch on dumping day.

I got some good news today, I am receiving two small samples of Bug Farm IV and I will save one, and use one for this project.

Excellent, I'm officially on the same page again

Orchestrating the grain-buy: Google Docs Spreadsheet

Please, make changes as you see fit to anything on this file (treat it as yours).

Just to throw a time out there... how about Saturday, 1pm at Brew Brothers?

Thanks for making the spreadsheet, iscribble. Did we have a line on aged hops?

jhalloran said:

Thanks for making the spreadsheet, iscribble. Did we have a line on aged hops?

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I got mine from Fresh Hops ironically... pretty quick delivery. Aged Willamette at about 1-2% AA.

Brew brothers have some too. I think I'm good at 1pm Saturday. Uptown market might have too.

Ordered 3oz of the aged hops from Fresh Hops and 2oz of Perle for an upcoming ESB. I like that they have a $5 minimum for orders. Thanks for the link, Brewbien.

I still want to participate. How come iscribble and halloran have slightly different amounts to add?

I don't have my second mash tun built so I think I should just stick to a 5.5 addition.

I'm good for Saturday at 1pm, I'll be their a little early to start getting my milled, got work at 4pm. I will be doing a non-turbid mash.

With the four of us contributing that's 36 gallons... who else are we missing?

ElectricAlphaAcidTest said:

I still want to participate. How come iscribble and halloran have slightly different amounts to add?

I don't have my second mash tun built so I think I should just stick to a 5.5 addition.

I'm good for Saturday at 1pm, I'll be their a little early to start getting my milled, got work at 4pm. I will be doing a non-turbid mash.

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I think most of us need our grain milled; the point of the spreadsheet is to see if we can't buy bags of grain for the cheaper price. Could you add your order to the list?

Not sure why halloran isn't using the 60/40 ratio put forward by TVB... maybe his process necessitates it? (Not something I've personally heard of, but I'm open minded to the idea)

Here's the list I had a few pages back of contributors:

Me- 10 gallons
ElectricAlphaAcidTest- 6-12 gallons
My neighbor- 10 gallons
Ibrewaletx- 10 gallons
daevidallen- 10 gallons
iscribble- 5 gallons
jhalloran- 6 gallons

PMs sent.

theveganbrewer said:

Here's the list I had a few pages back of contributors:

Me- 10 gallons
ElectricAlphaAcidTest- 6-12 gallons
My neighbor- 10 gallons
Ibrewaletx- 10 gallons
daevidallen- 10 gallons
iscribble- 5 gallons
jhalloran- 6 gallons

PMs sent.

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I was also in for 5 gallons which will give us a few extra gallons for topping up the barrel.

ElectricAlphaAcidTest said:

I still want to participate. How come iscribble and halloran have slightly different amounts to add?

I don't have my second mash tun built so I think I should just stick to a 5.5 addition.

I'm good for Saturday at 1pm, I'll be their a little early to start getting my milled, got work at 4pm. I will be doing a non-turbid mash.

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I'm sure my efficiency is lower than iscribbles.