Domestic vs UK Pale Malt

Are they interchangeable? I am not talking about MO, Halycon, or Pearl... Just plain old Pale Ale Malt..

I am having a hard time choosing between the two, so my question is if I buy one or the other, would I be able to sub recipes with one or the other?

Let me know. Thanks!

Well this can vary but generally UK Pale Malt, 2 row is 3 SRM and our US Pale Malt, 2 row, is 2 SRM so we are lighter colored... both typically have a 1.036 potential SG... it should be noted that Belgium Pale Malt, 2 Row is also 3 SRM but has a 1.037 SG... 6 Row Pale US Malt has a 2 SRM also but 1.035 potential... all very much the same. I try to use malt of whatever style I'm attempting to brew. So if I do an bitter I use Maris Otter or UK Pale Malt, if I'm trying to make an American Amber or pale ale I'll use US 2 row but for sure if I don't have any of the country of style malt I'll interchange! and since I've only recently come over to the AG side I've been doing that with amber extract up till a few months ago.

Halcyon, Pearl, Golden Promise and Maris-Otter are all varieties of barley. They are all used to make British pale malt. Pearl is the most common type while the others are sold more as a special or upgrade. You can use any of them in any recipe calling for British/UK pale malt. There are some distinguishing characteristics but they are all very good and far superior in flavor to the typical domestic malts IMO. That said if you make mostly domestic styles and like the flavor profile then save your money and buy domestic.

I suggest you need a rather sensitive palate to taste much of a difference between regular British pale and Am 2-row. I feel they're rather interchangeable yet ever so slightly different. Having said that I can discern a difference between Rahr & Briess Am. 2-row. Confused much?

Schlante,
Phillip

I can greatly discern between a maris otter (which is UK pale malt) and american pale malt. It's not only the way it's malted, but the way it is grown.

There is also a difference between pale ale malt and pale malt.

So, for all intensive purposes, I should get the cheapest base malts I can.

Maris Otter, Pearl, Optic, Golden Promise, and the like have a specific flavor, so I will need those if a recipe calls for it, however, base malt is base malt, right?

reddskinnfan said:

base malt is base malt, right?

Click to expand...

Not exactly. It's close enough generally, Belgian Pale malt possibly excluded, to be interchangeable but they do give off slightly different base flavors. As many note Marris Otter, my go to malt, has a nice toasted biscuity flavor. Yet by using Domestic 2-row and 4-8 oz. of Victory malt you get a real good simulation of that toasted biscuity flavor. So one can go with the most bland of the base malts, Briess 2-row in my opinion, and get to the more complex flavors of other base malts with a little effort. I however prefer a more complex base malt to build more complex biers. Think about it, even a blonde ale is better with a more complex malt profile. Yes I'm riding the fence by saying they're different but rarely enough to matter unless you're entering competitions and such.

Schlante,
Phillip

I had the opportunity to ask this basic question to a maltster that produces the base malt for Budweiser. She was one of only a few people in the world with a PHD in malting. So know that is her bias-- big technology, lots of data and testing, and scientific background rather then traditional processes and the art of hands on craft brewing.

Paraphrasing her--
* Barley grown in different places and malted differently is different and will taste different. Her malt is specifically made to Budweisers criteria using state of art technology in a very controlled process. She says she knows enough to know that there is plenty she doesn't know. Many things they do-- they do because it gets the results they desire, confirmed by testing, but they do not necessarily know why. For instance all malt when finished-- is aged a certain amount of time before selling. She did not know why this is necessary but she knows that is necessary and problems will result if this is not done. Aging/storing malt costs them money and they not do it if they could get away with it.
* What one brewer wants may be different then what another brewer wants. And malting techniques vary immensely!
* All malt changes from season to season. So brands change in flavor.
* All malts have vastly benefited from the big breweries investing vast amounts of money perfecting the art/science of breeding barley and malting.
* All malt 100 or even 25 years ago is vastly inferior by any measure to malt today.
* Organic malt is poor malt because they have to sell high percentages of malt they would normally throw away because oraganic barley is so inconsistent and poor quality from nature of the organic farming of barley. So avoid organic malt. Sorry greenies-- i happen to agree-- never had an organic beer i particularly liked.
* I asked her about Marris Otter- because I like it-- but she said floor malting is both impossible to do on a large scale and produces a malt that would never be acceptable for her standards. I could go into that but there is no sense to. In the same conversation she said if you like that malt-- then by all means use it-- but that malt was inferior by her standards though. (I still use the malt and love it when i can afford it-- i consider it not better or worse just different-- probably won't try it in a lager though)


Anyway to keep this brief use malt that is meant for your style of beer unless you are experimenting. You'll never get a straight answer about which malt to use or if they are interchangeable from anyone-- even if they know more about the topic then anyone else alive.

For me that makes the hobby even more fun! There is no 'right' answer to which malt or any other ingredient to use and leaves us open to a lot of possibilities-- to make amazing beer! (and you'll only know the secret )

Instead of thinking of malt as an ingredient think of it as part of your brewing procedure. Barley goes from plant to beer and maltsters and brewers help that happen. Brewers pick up where maltsters leave off. Pick a malt/maltster that works with the style/origin of the beer you are making unless you are experimenting. For example that's not to say you can't use American malts-- base and specialty-- in a Belgian beer... But the result will simply be different because the malts ARE DIFFERENT. How much different? Probably varies...

Domestic pale malt will usually (almost always) have more protein and diastatic power than British pale malt.

EDIT: Budweiser uses a lot of adjuncts in their beer so they're requirements are different than most homebrewers. Interesting tidbit about the aging of malt.

Domestic malts is highly modified because the principal buyers of it are macro beer companies like budweiser who produce domestically. It's becoming less of a concern because most of the major breweries-- except budweiser-- have abandoned their cereal cookers for liquid high fructose silos! Keep that in mind the next time you pick up a macro beer! Some of Miller's beers are up to 50% or so high fructose corn syrup.... 'Continually conditioned' in proprietary tower that gets cleaned once a year.

Craft beer is only like 6% of the market-- so they don't get much say in what malt maltsters make... Homebrewers and craftbrewers basically get no say.

We pick from what is out there but generally what is good for the macros is very good for the micros and craft brewers and homebrewers alike. Craft breweries would have difficult time with consistency if they had to use malt from 25- 50 years ago!

Big breweries running the show is actually a good thing because of the massive scale macro breweries brew at-- it drives the cost down and the quality up--- of the malt and thus the beer!

For instance most craft breweries range from 1000 to 25,000 barrels a year. Miller at one production plant on the other hand makes 25,000 barrels A DAY!

So don't bash the big buys! They also allow your favorite craft beer to get across the country inexpensively and in good time---all the while being nice and refrigerated!

As far the difference between malts--- Diastatic power is only one of dozens if not hundreds-- of criteria-- the big maltsters control when converting barley to malt. Because the beer they produce is so light and 'clean' (another way to say tasteless) the malt they use must be very high quality to both not produce off flavors/problems in the brewery, and be as consistent as possible.

Even then the malt changes over time because two crops of barley are never the same. Prime barley growing areas are being pushed out (mostly west) by boondoggles like subsidized farming for corn/ethanol. This changes the barley grown because the place/environment where it being grown is way different. It also rapes the land of nutrients because barley is an excellent rotational crop-- -putting nutrients back into the soil-- and corn does the complete opposite! If market forces where allowed to play out then most farmers would grow barley at least some of the time for this reason.

A major concern for the big breweries is the retirement of long standing brew masters that are professionals at taking these changes in the malt over time into account and adjusting their recipes, blending, etc.

There is lots of things that can go wrong when malting!

The small maltsters-- marris otter for instance which is floor malted-- simply have no way to control the process to the degree the large maltsters do. They rely on traditional hands on methods and experience. Which isn't better or worse just different. Let your taste buds decide.

For instance I love carastan 35L which is british crystal malt... I like it much more then say the Briess's equivalent. I could eat it with milk and call it cereal in the morning. Then again I think Briess carpils is the bomb digity and other dextrin malts I have tried (imported or otherwise) not nearly as tasty!

It's all about the recipe and finding what you like. Personally-- marris otter and about 10% briess carapils is about the best grain bill for a pale ale I have ever made... And tastes far different then if I substitute either ingredients with equivalents....