Carafa II vs Carafa III

I've made an India Black Ale using Carafa II (special) recently and it turned out wonderfully. The roast was very slight on it, but the color was spot on. Has anyone tried using Carafa III? Are there an flavor differences between the 2? I'm hoping I can substitute the Carafa II with Carafa III and get away with using less than I did with Carafa II. My main concern is (obviously) keeping the roast flavor to an absolute minimum....

Thoughts?

Are you looking for just the color without the roast????

I used 5oz of Carafa III Special in my Bohemian Dark Lager - it's bit too tart, but otherwise no signs of roasty flavors. Very intense coffe & dark chocolate flavors. Anyway if i'm making this beer again i'll lower the amount to 3oz.

lostboysbrew said:

Are you looking for just the color without the roast????

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Yes, I am.

I enjoy a few ounces of Carafa III special, but I cap the mash. Basically adding it at the last few minutes for even less flavor contribution.

I have heard people grinding the grain into a powder and capping the mash with that. You can get away with a lot less grain and still get a lot of color out of it. I dont have any experience with grinding though, but hopefully someone else can chime in.

For my tastes, I like bit of roast in the black IPA. I dont think the point is to make an IPA just with a different color. I think the Carafa plays nicely with the hops and the bit of roast adds a different dimension.

SnakeAnthony6375 said:

Yes, I am.

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Ive heard just to add it the carafa during the last couple minutes of the mash will give you color without flavor.

I have used both Carafa II and Carafa III (always the Special - dehusked) in various German brews for color. I never get the acrid or roast character I get from dark chocolate, roast, or black patent, so I find it suits these styles well and would be comfortable using it anywhere that required the dark color without the roasted notes.

bh10 said:

Ive heard just to add it the carafa during the last couple minutes of the mash will give you color without flavor.

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on that note.......you can just steep the carafa III to get that color.........or use black patent and steep it......youll get color and no flavors......

award winning black ipa was done that way.......

If you add the malt to the mash at the end, are you taking a risk of leaving starches in the wort? Is this a bad thing?

That's why i'm adding these just before 10' mash-out. And later there is about 30' sparging when the temperature of the wort drops significantly... So there is still a plenty of enzymes to convert the starch from 3oz of roasted malt (if there is any, i don't know).

Randar said:

I have used both Carafa II and Carafa III (always the Special - dehusked) in various German brews for color. I never get the acrid or roast character I get from dark chocolate, roast, or black patent, so I find it suits these styles well and would be comfortable using it anywhere that required the dark color without the roasted notes.

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Do you mash the Carafa for the entire time or add it later on?

Cheers,

Dan

lostboysbrew said:

on that note.......you can just steep the carafa III to get that color.........or use black patent and steep it......youll get color and no flavors......

award winning black ipa was done that way.......

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Sounds like a better idea.

I recently made a CDA with carafa II. I used 12oz and ground it to dust in my food processor. I capped the mash with it, recirculated, and fly sparged through it. It's BLACK with barely a ruby highlight when held to light. It's not finished yet but I haven't detected any roast from the wort. Also, checkout chocolate wheat. It's 500L and since it's wheat, you won't get the same roasty character like you would from the husks of a black malt or roasted barley.

monkeydan said:

Do you mash the Carafa for the entire time or add it later on?

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I just mash it. It's already been dehusked/debittered, and in the quantities used I have never found it to add noticeable character to impede the base style showing through.

Hrmm. Going for a Roggenbier and it calls for 2 oz Carafa Speciall II Huskless, but I don't see it on Austin Homebrew Supply. They have De-bittered Black (Carafa® III).

Substituteable? Lower quantity needed or perhaps the steep/late mash addition instead?

TIA

You wont notice any flavor when using 2oz unless is a gallon or two batch, 2 oz will be for color thats it. As for using Carafa II vs. III only difference will be a slightly darker beer @ 2oz.

Thanks. 5.5 gallon batch. Equal substitution changed SRM 0.8, so if there is no flavor difference, or minimal then it sounds like a go!