Belgian Quad SG 1.094 to 1.010 in 1 week....how I did it...if you want to know.

B-Dub · Feb 21, 2009

one of the issues I had was the beers finished too dry (according to more experienced homebrewers)...like 1.008 (from 1.075) and 1.007 (from 1.074). On the one "monster" brew, I ended at 1.014 (from 1.103)

also...what types/amounts of steeping grains are most appropriate for this style? I hear it's pretty easy to over-do the steeping grains.

If you want to keep your beer from fermenting so dry you can mash higher. That would be the simple answer and the book answer.

Also you need to look at the % of extract you are getting from simple sugars. If you are in the 25% to 30% range you could replace them with malt and raise your FG.

As for steeping grains, I flat don't know.

dontman · Feb 21, 2009

one of the issues I had was the beers finished too dry (according to more experienced homebrewers)...like 1.008 (from 1.075) and 1.007 (from 1.074). On the one "monster" brew, I ended at 1.014 (from 1.103)

also...what types/amounts of steeping grains are most appropriate for this style? I hear it's pretty easy to over-do the steeping grains.

Dark strongs rely on serious malt complexity so specialty grains become a critical part of any recipe. I use Caravienne, Special B, Honey Malt, various Crystal malts, in varying amounts. It is the proportions that make your recipe yours and there is no right answer as to what quantities.

Keep in mind that in this style the hops are subordinate to the malt and meant to highlight not be the focus.

( I believe you are mistaking "dryness" for some other characteristic. My guess is fusel alcohol. Your beers are not coming out even as dry as commercial Belgians which often go as low as 1.003. Time will mellow out fusels.

coyote · Feb 21, 2009

appreciate the replies!

obtaining that malty depth is another issue with extract brewing. I tried to get that with the steeping grains...

mkade · Feb 23, 2009

Dontman, do you also ramp up the temperatures on a wit to make sure it fully ferments? If so, to what temp and for how long? What kind of conditioning period would you do afterward?

coyote · Feb 23, 2009

dontman said:
I believe you are mistaking "dryness" for some other characteristic. My guess is fusel alcohol. Your beers are not coming out even as dry as commercial Belgians which often go as low as 1.003. Time will mellow out fusels.

it's funny you say that...my tasting notes mentioned a "hot alcohol" taste... those more experienced homebrewers labeled it as "too dry".

this was NOT a "headache" ale, though...and no other off flavors (other than the fusel or dry taste). otherwise, just a nice peppery Belgian flavor from the yeasts

dontman · Feb 23, 2009

mkade said:
Dontman, do you also ramp up the temperatures on a wit to make sure it fully ferments? If so, to what temp and for how long? What kind of conditioning period would you do afterward?

I let wits ride the natural temp curve. My cellar ambient is always mid 60s. Ferment will take a 5 gallon carboy up 7-8 degrees. So the wits hit 73-75 and that is fine. With other beers I need to push it higher artificially.

mkade · Feb 23, 2009

dontman said:
I let wits ride the natural temp curve. My cellar ambient is always mid 60s. Ferment will take a 5 gallon carboy up 7-8 degrees. So the wits hit 73-75 and that is fine. With other beers I need to push it higher artificially.

Thanks I appreciate your help. I'm going to be brewing a tripel next weekend, and my main goal had been to dry it out the last few points and I think the temperature could be a huge help in doing it.

dontman · Feb 23, 2009

coyote said:
it's funny you say that...my tasting notes mentioned a "hot alcohol" taste... those more experienced homebrewers labeled it as "too dry".

this was NOT a "headache" ale, though...and no other off flavors (other than the fusel or dry taste). otherwise, just a nice peppery Belgian flavor from the yeasts

Yeah I reread that part of your post (about the homebrewers opinions) and was curious myself. Another possibility is that you did not get enough ester production and they are interpreting lack of fruity esters as too dry.

I still believe a lot of people wait too long to raise the ferment temp in an attempt to forego fusel production and miss out on the best spot in the ferment to get good esters.

I had another one of my Golden Triples last night. I was floored again. Even my wife liked it and she does not like beer.

coyote · Feb 23, 2009

dontman said:
I had another one of my Golden Triples last night. I was floored again.

if you ever get to the other end of the state, I'd like to try one of your Tripels and get your expert critique on my meager efforts.

mkade · Feb 24, 2009

So I just realized from Brewing like a Monk that Chimay (WLP 500) is where they really heat it up above 80, but with Westmalle (WLP 530) they keep the temps below 70 the entire fermentation. My plan had been a tripel with 530, should I avoid the high temps like they do at Westmalle, or is it still OK to heat it up after some time period do y'all think?

B-Dub · Feb 24, 2009

Hey mkade,

I am just up the road from you in SLO!

As for the yeast question, the WLP500 is Chimay and I do not have much experience with that one.

The WLP530 is the Westmalle yeast and depending on what brewery you look at, the temps differ. I forget what page it is, but in BLAM it talks about one yeast three beers/breweries. You might have the two yeasts mixed up. Take a second look.

The WLP530 is notorious for fermenting down to 1.030 and stopping. Personally I like to make sure the temps are nice and high towards the end. The last half even.

The main points at the beginning of this post are what I have found to make sure you avoid the stuck ferment. The 530 makes a great Triple by the way. I need to bottle 10 gallons this weekend.

BDUB

mkade · Feb 24, 2009

B-Dub said:
Hey mkade,

I am just up the road from you in SLO!

As for the yeast question, the WLP500 is Chimay and I do not have much experience with that one.

The WLP530 is the Westmalle yeast and depending on what brewery you look at, the temps differ. I forget what page it is, but in BLAM it talks about one yeast three beers/breweries. You might have the two yeasts mixed up. Take a second look.

The WLP530 is notorious for fermenting down to 1.030 and stopping. Personally I like to make sure the temps are nice and high towards the end. The last half even.

The main points at the beginning of this post are what I have found to make sure you avoid the stuck ferment. The 530 makes a great Triple by the way. I need to bottle 10 gallons this weekend.

BDUB

B-Dub, That's pretty sweet. My housemate's boyfriend is finishing up at Cal Poly right now. I'm sure I had the yeasts right (500 Chimay, 530 Westmalle), but I just wasn't sure if it was OK to stray from what they do fermentation-wise at Westmalle (keeping it below 70). Thanks for the advice on stuck at 1030, I did not know that that was an issue. My plan for now is to have only the malt in kettle, and to add the sugar (inverted on my stove) a few days into fermentation, after high krausen has passed. I might lean towards caution raising the temp with this yeast, and just do it if I find from gravity readings that it's not progressing as quickly as I thought. Have you used 530 yourself?

B-Dub · Feb 24, 2009

My go to yeast is the 530 and I use it all the time.

Yeah, you have the strains right, just the temps might be a little off. The 530 can go into the 70's and low 80's.

If the yeast stops at 1.030, it might be to late to warm it up. The best thing to do is let it warm up on its own to the mid 70's during fermentation to insure proper fermentation and ester production.

I like to help the fermentation along by warming at the middle to end.

dontman · Feb 24, 2009

And my go to is the 500 so I know that that one is fine to go high with as well.

I really think there is some conflicting info going out though. Because when I first looked into cloning Westmalle I know they talked about going to 78 on day 3.

I'm with B-Dub the higher attenuation effect of higher temp ferment comes from warming it during high krausen. Post krausen higher temp has little effect, good or bad.

mkade · Feb 24, 2009

Alright, sounds good and thanks for the advice. I will let let you know how it goes with this brew.

mkade · Mar 9, 2009

Hey guys,

I brewed my Tripel, followed a temperature plan as talked about here. My OG was 1.090 (84% pils, 1% aromatic, 15% sugar inverted on my stove top). I just took a gravity reading, which I adjusted for the fact that the sample was at 82F, and the gravity has dropped to 1.009 for an apparent attenuation of 89%. The strange thing is that I took a taste of the sample, and it tasted sweet despite a hop schedule that should produce 35 IBUs. You guys think that's strange, or simply a function of tasting 82 degree flat beer?

dontman · Mar 9, 2009

Put 3.5 or 4 volumes of CO2 on it and everything will start to balance out.

beerthirty · Mar 9, 2009

I've been following this thread for a while and planning my next Belgian. Most of you seem to prefer the fruity ester over the spicy. I prefer the spicy. My last couple of Belgians were brewed with 550 for this reason but they finished high(1.024) and seemed to be lacking somewhat. I feel the ultimate Belgian is Piraat and I'm trying to replicate this fine brew. I plan on using temp ramp on the next brew to help with attenuation, but was wondering if anyone had any suggestions that might help. The recipe I'm working with comes from "Clone Brews"

I wholeheartedly agree with using the CO2 to help balance a sweet beer. Dissolved CO2 makes a brew more acidic which helps the balance of many beers.

mkade · Mar 12, 2009

dontman said:
Put 3.5 or 4 volumes of CO2 on it and everything will start to balance out.

So I was wondering what you guys do about bottling. I recently set up my kegging system, and while it would be nice to have this beer on draft, part of me feels like I'm cheating by not bottle conditioning. At the same time, I don't have the bottles to get a proper high (3+ volumes) carbonation. Keg, bottle, carbonate naturally in keg? Any advice is appreciated.

dontman · Mar 12, 2009

The only Belgian that I have ever kegged is a pale that should be fairly tame. All the others I have bottled because I want them to last for years and drink them very slowly.

I did sugar carb the pale ale in keg. It is on my back porch right now chilling down prior to going into the kegerator tomorrow.

B-Dub · Mar 14, 2009

I've been following this thread for a while and planning my next Belgian. Most of you seem to prefer the fruity ester over the spicy. I prefer the spicy. My last couple of Belgians were brewed with 550 for this reason but they finished high(1.024) and seemed to be lacking somewhat. I feel the ultimate Belgian is Piraat and I'm trying to replicate this fine brew. I plan on using temp ramp on the next brew to help with attenuation, but was wondering if anyone had any suggestions that might help. The recipe I'm working with comes from "Clone Brews"

Beerthirty,
I to love the Piraat. One of my personal favorites. What do you think the FG on Piraat is? It seems to be one of those sweeter beers that seems to pull off a higher FG, but doesn't come off to sweet.

Aside from your fg, how did you like the 550? What was your sg, mash temp/time, % of simple sugars?

mkade · Apr 5, 2009

Holy crap. I used WLP 500 to ferment a 1090 tripel, and just racked from secondary today for bottling, and found that it was all the way down to 1.000, giving an apparent attenuation of 100% and real of 80+%. It was crystal clear and delicious. Any ideas about how it managed to ferment down so dry?

carnevoodoo · Apr 5, 2009

mkade said:
Holy crap. I used WLP 500 to ferment a 1090 tripel, and just racked from secondary today for bottling, and found that it was all the way down to 1.000, giving an apparent attenuation of 100% and real of 80+%. It was crystal clear and delicious. Any ideas about how it managed to ferment down so dry?

I can imagine you had a good deal of simple sugar, a good starter, and kept it warm enough to get that low. That's all it really takes. For bigger Belgians I pitch at 64 and let free climb. Unless it is the middle of summer here, it will take itself up to mid 80s when it feels like it. 500, 530, and 550 are all pretty great at higher attenuation. I prefer 530.

Crash · Apr 5, 2009

I just brewed a Strong Golden yesterday; found this thread today. I was a little afraid of my 74*F temp last night so I cooled it down by setting it in front of an open window. This morning it was down to 68*F, but bubbling like crazy. I Stuck it back in the broom closet to keep it away from my toddler before leaving for my 24 hour shift at the fire station and again was a little worried that the temp would climb while I am stuck at work. Now I'm not as worried about that as I am that my closet will be full of blow off! Nice to find some experienced guys that aren't egotistical jerks. Thanks for the thread!

mkade · Apr 5, 2009

My grain bill was 84% pils, 15% inverted sugar and 1% aromatic. I added the inverted sugar to the primary after the highest fermentation activity just passed its peak. I was expecting high 80s for AA, but all the way down to 1.000 seems pretty crazy. It tasted delicious even warm and flat, but I was shocked. Anyone else had attenuation like this?

Belgian Quad SG 1.094 to 1.010 in 1 week....how I did it...if you want to know.

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